UVA study - private vs. public

[Anonymous]

I don't mean this to be inflammatory. I just found it interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/07/26/no-private-schools-arent-better-at-educating-kids-than-public-schools-why-this-new-study-matters/?utm_term=.ed6bbd0c28d1

[Anonymous]

Inflammatory would be posting it in the private school forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Inflammatory would be posting it in the private school forum.

That's why I thought there would be a more dispassionate audience here : )

This issue also I think impacts public school choice. In other words, whether or not (and there are arguments on both sides) or the extent to which a kid from a MC/UMC family can have the same opportunities/success at a school where there are challenges not faced to the same degree as other schools (e.g., hunger, resources, English literacy), significant socioeconomic diversity, and so on, due to parental involvement or supplementing. I personally struggle with this as a parent. I know it's been debated ad nauseum here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inflammatory would be posting it in the private school forum.

That's why I thought there would be a more dispassionate audience here : )

This issue also I think impacts public school choice. In other words, whether or not (and there are arguments on both sides) or the extent to which a kid from a MC/UMC family can have the same opportunities/success at a school where there are challenges not faced to the same degree as other schools (e.g., hunger, resources, English literacy), significant socioeconomic diversity, and so on, due to parental involvement or supplementing. I personally struggle with this as a parent. I know it's been debated ad nauseum here.

I think there is a tipping point at which having too many low income students may become a disadvantage to that MC/UMC child in the form of low income students needing more attention from faculty/staff to possibly not having a big enough academic peer group.

IMO, that tipping point is anything above 25 to 30%. Others may feel differently. I also think some SES diversity is a good thing, however, not from an education perspective, but just from a exposure to diversity perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inflammatory would be posting it in the private school forum.

That's why I thought there would be a more dispassionate audience here : )

This issue also I think impacts public school choice. In other words, whether or not (and there are arguments on both sides) or the extent to which a kid from a MC/UMC family can have the same opportunities/success at a school where there are challenges not faced to the same degree as other schools (e.g., hunger, resources, English literacy), significant socioeconomic diversity, and so on, due to parental involvement or supplementing. I personally struggle with this as a parent. I know it's been debated ad nauseum here.

I think there is a tipping point at which having too many low income students may become a disadvantage to that MC/UMC child in the form of low income students needing more attention from faculty/staff to possibly not having a big enough academic peer group.

IMO, that tipping point is anything above 25 to 30%. Others may feel differently. I also think some SES diversity is a good thing, however, not from an education perspective, but just from a exposure to diversity perspective.

Interesting. If you are using the percentage to mean FARMS, that would preclude some of the ES highly touted here -- Forest Knolls, Oakland Terrace, Rock View, Flora Singer.

[Anonymous]

Meh, this doesn’t surprise me at all. We are moving our kid to private school next year, she did k-5 at a great public. If all we cared about were academics, she would stay public. But there was more than just academic stats that went into our decision. For all the rich educated people’s kids, differentiators are not going to be SAT scores or APs, they will be soft skills and peer group and teacher advocacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think there is a tipping point at which having too many low income students may become a disadvantage to that MC/UMC child in the form of low income students needing more attention from faculty/staff to possibly not having a big enough academic peer group.

IMO, that tipping point is anything above 25 to 30%. Others may feel differently. I also think some SES diversity is a good thing, however, not from an education perspective, but just from a exposure to diversity perspective.

A good thing, for whom? The major argument against high-poverty schools is that high-poverty schools are bad for children who live in poverty. Income diversity most benefits children who live in poverty. Is that the perspective you're talking about? Or are you saying that you think it's good for children from affluent families to be exposed to children who live in poverty?

[Anonymous]

I think the study is interesting, and not too surprising, but I do think there are differences between public schools and private schools that factor in. Sidwell is not the same as (pick your school), and Whitman is not the same as say Anacostia HS (one of the lowest performing DC high schools). I'm sure a high SES student will do equally well at Sidwell or Whitman. Not so sure you get the same outcome at Sidwell vs. Anacostia. But maybe the study adjusted for that - the article didn't get into that detail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the study is interesting, and not too surprising, but I do think there are differences between public schools and private schools that factor in. Sidwell is not the same as (pick your school), and Whitman is not the same as say Anacostia HS (one of the lowest performing DC high schools). I'm sure a high SES student will do equally well at Sidwell or Whitman. Not so sure you get the same outcome at Sidwell vs. Anacostia. But maybe the study adjusted for that - the article didn't get into that detail.

The percentage of children who go to the Sidwells of the country and the Anacostia HSs of the country is very small. Most private schools are not Sidwell, most public schools are not Anacostia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the study is interesting, and not too surprising, but I do think there are differences between public schools and private schools that factor in. Sidwell is not the same as (pick your school), and Whitman is not the same as say Anacostia HS (one of the lowest performing DC high schools). I'm sure a high SES student will do equally well at Sidwell or Whitman. Not so sure you get the same outcome at Sidwell vs. Anacostia. But maybe the study adjusted for that - the article didn't get into that detail.

The percentage of children who go to the Sidwells of the country and the Anacostia HSs of the country is very small. Most private schools are not Sidwell, most public schools are not Anacostia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think there is a tipping point at which having too many low income students may become a disadvantage to that MC/UMC child in the form of low income students needing more attention from faculty/staff to possibly not having a big enough academic peer group.

IMO, that tipping point is anything above 25 to 30%. Others may feel differently. I also think some SES diversity is a good thing, however, not from an education perspective, but just from a exposure to diversity perspective.

A good thing, for whom? The major argument against high-poverty schools is that high-poverty schools are bad for children who live in poverty. Income diversity most benefits children who live in poverty. Is that the perspective you're talking about? Or are you saying that you think it's good for children from affluent families to be exposed to children who live in poverty?

a good thing for everyone. We are MC/UMC and chose a more diverse school cluster for the diversity, and not just for race but for SES as well.

[Anonymous]

In my experience it isn't about the low income kids, it is the number of kids with IEPs. They take all the resources such that there is no room or assistance for the average kid. We don't have enough money to serve all the populations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh, this doesn’t surprise me at all. We are moving our kid to private school next year, she did k-5 at a great public. If all we cared about were academics, she would stay public. But there was more than just academic stats that went into our decision. For all the rich educated people’s kids, differentiators are not going to be SAT scores or APs, they will be soft skills and peer group and teacher advocacy.

Kids in public schools don't learn soft skills or have a good peer group? As for teach advocacy, I'd say that is mostly about academics. Sometimes there can be too much hand-holding by a teacher which is not good for kids either.

The only reason I would choose private is if my DC needed smaller class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the study is interesting, and not too surprising, but I do think there are differences between public schools and private schools that factor in. Sidwell is not the same as (pick your school), and Whitman is not the same as say Anacostia HS (one of the lowest performing DC high schools). I'm sure a high SES student will do equally well at Sidwell or Whitman. Not so sure you get the same outcome at Sidwell vs. Anacostia. But maybe the study adjusted for that - the article didn't get into that detail.

The percentage of children who go to the Sidwells of the country and the Anacostia HSs of the country is very small. Most private schools are not Sidwell, most public schools are not Anacostia.

Right, isn't that my point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think there is a tipping point at which having too many low income students may become a disadvantage to that MC/UMC child in the form of low income students needing more attention from faculty/staff to possibly not having a big enough academic peer group.

IMO, that tipping point is anything above 25 to 30%. Others may feel differently. I also think some SES diversity is a good thing, however, not from an education perspective, but just from a exposure to diversity perspective.

A good thing, for whom? The major argument against high-poverty schools is that high-poverty schools are bad for children who live in poverty. Income diversity most benefits children who live in poverty. Is that the perspective you're talking about? Or are you saying that you think it's good for children from affluent families to be exposed to children who live in poverty?

I think there are a lot of affluent or UMC parents who would prefer that their children learn to acknowledge and appreciate the privileges they have rather than measuring themselves against people with vacation homes in Europe and trips abroad every summer. My parents are both UMC professionals, as were my aunts and uncles. My cousins who went to private school (not in the DC area) felt like the poor kids at their school, despite ample opportunities, because they went to school with kids with private jets and multiple homes, etc. My brother and I had different experiences at two different MoCo high schools. My brother was invited to ski trips out of state by the families of some of his friends (and my parents were able to send him). My friends' families did not take trips like that, though none were by any means poor. What kind of expectations and assumptions kids grow up with are influenced not only by their own family, but by the kids and families they grow up with and around.