We need homes. A lot of homes. Not just affordable, but also middle-income homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guess what. Middle income families do not want to live next to rich families and vice versa. Do not ignore human nature.

Middle income families don’t want to live next to rich families?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what. Middle income families do not want to live next to rich families and vice versa. Do not ignore human nature.

Middle income families don’t want to live next to rich families?

That is right. Not next to a bunch of Joneses they can never keep up with. Their children will feel deprived rather than MC. Human nature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Developers cannot just change approved plans on a whim, sorry champ.

As PP pointed out, they need to go back to the approved for permission. I can’t recall an instance in which an approver has denied a request to delay, shrink, or convert to shorter-term housing. It’s happened frequently in the past three years. If your goal is really more housing, I don’t understand why you’re only blaming zoning and NIMBYs. Developers could build more units right now with no more approvals needed. If your goal is just helping developers inflate their profits, then your attempts to deflect blame for skyrocketing housing prices make sense.

They are building like crazy all over my area of SW and Navy Yard. But it seems to be targeted at either upscale (12 million dollar condos at the Wharf) or young professionals but very little seems to be geared toward middle income families. In the 15 years I've been here it's always the same pattern, lots of young 20 and 30 somethings, maybe some families with young children, but the second their kids get older, most of them bail for the suburbs. Granted a big part of that is lack of faith in DC schools. Some of the charters have managed to stem the tide but if families are bailing then there aren't as many invested in making change.

Over 40 percent of DC students are enrolled in charters. They've stemmed the tide a lot. With that being said, these developers want to do away with family homes - not build them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, do we have an agreement on what constitutes a "middle-income" home?

Here is a link to what used to be a typical a middle-income home - 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths - and quite similar to the one I grew up in during my early childhood. Dad was a college graduate and professional who commuted to DC from Silver Spring (and this was way before the Metro: think in terms of Mom driving him to the bus stop, and him having to make two transfers), and costs $425,000. It has a nice backyard for the kids to play. So....do we agree that this is a decent middle-income home, or do the high-earning "elites" on this forum look their nose down on it?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/13200-May-Ct-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37308032_zpid/?

Or, here's another one, in the same general area. This is how all the middle-class kids I grew up with lived:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3930-Wendy-Ln-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37308239_zpid/

Either of those are typically $650,000 in my suburban Virginia neighborhood. That's middle class right?

Nope, $650,000 is fairly affluent. And that's what they go for in my suburban Virginia neighborhood, too, so I know all about it.

But the point was the posters have been complaining that there isn't enough middle-income housing, and I was showing that there ARE middle-income houses in the area. It's just that middle-income people might have to move to Silver Spring where the houses can be had for $400,000. I see some of them in areas of Rockville, as well - the 1950s style ranchers and split-levels. What's so bad about having to move to where you can afford a house?

i think you are missing the sense of entitlement that many proponents here have. They want affordable housing in the most expensive neighborhoods in Ward 3. Yeh, and I want an affordable condo on the top floor of the Wharf of the Potomac. Simple answer is that the proponents need to get a life, or make more money. More thoughtful approach is to improve other neighborhoods in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

TIL that Tokyo, which is on nearly every list of the world's most expensive housing markets, is the model we should be following for more affordable housing.

I recommend you discover the world of knowledge! It is a reasonable rival for knee-jerk tribalism.

Tokyo Prefecture has TRIPLED housing stock 1963-2013 (and continues to add more and more housing — making it easy as a matter of public policy to build more).

http://rstudio-pubs-static.s3.amazonaws.com/361409_dcd5637049764634986dd04f150452e0.html

Greater Tokyo is much the same (same source, among many others).

Washington DC had a population of 750,000 in 1960. Today it has a population of not quite 700,000. There has been no material growth in the housing stock in DC (for most of the 90’s, there were less than 300 building permits / year for new residential).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, do we have an agreement on what constitutes a "middle-income" home?

Here is a link to what used to be a typical a middle-income home - 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths - and quite similar to the one I grew up in during my early childhood. Dad was a college graduate and professional who commuted to DC from Silver Spring (and this was way before the Metro: think in terms of Mom driving him to the bus stop, and him having to make two transfers), and costs $425,000. It has a nice backyard for the kids to play. So....do we agree that this is a decent middle-income home, or do the high-earning "elites" on this forum look their nose down on it?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/13200-May-Ct-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37308032_zpid/?

Or, here's another one, in the same general area. This is how all the middle-class kids I grew up with lived:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3930-Wendy-Ln-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37308239_zpid/

Either of those are typically $650,000 in my suburban Virginia neighborhood. That's middle class right?

Nope, $650,000 is fairly affluent. And that's what they go for in my suburban Virginia neighborhood, too, so I know all about it.

But the point was the posters have been complaining that there isn't enough middle-income housing, and I was showing that there ARE middle-income houses in the area. It's just that middle-income people might have to move to Silver Spring where the houses can be had for $400,000. I see some of them in areas of Rockville, as well - the 1950s style ranchers and split-levels. What's so bad about having to move to where you can afford a house?

i think you are missing the sense of entitlement that many proponents here have. They want affordable housing in the most expensive neighborhoods in Ward 3. Yeh, and I want an affordable condo on the top floor of the Wharf of the Potomac. Simple answer is that the proponents need to get a life, or make more money. More thoughtful approach is to improve other neighborhoods in DC.

Agree. Why not move to PG? There's lots of affordable housing over there.

[Anonymous]

No one is entitled to live in NWDC or anywhere else. Go move to my hometown where you can buy a new build right now for $100k if you want cheap houses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

TIL that Tokyo, which is on nearly every list of the world's most expensive housing markets, is the model we should be following for more affordable housing.

I recommend you discover the world of knowledge! It is a reasonable rival for knee-jerk tribalism.

Tokyo Prefecture has TRIPLED housing stock 1963-2013 (and continues to add more and more housing — making it easy as a matter of public policy to build more).

http://rstudio-pubs-static.s3.amazonaws.com/361409_dcd5637049764634986dd04f150452e0.html

Greater Tokyo is much the same (same source, among many others).

Washington DC had a population of 750,000 in 1960. Today it has a population of not quite 700,000. There has been no material growth in the housing stock in DC (for most of the 90’s, there were less than 300 building permits / year for new residential).

And? Tokyo housing still is ludicrously expensive, much more expensive than DC.

[Anonymous]

You know, 20% of a $400k house is still $80k. That’s a lot to save on $108k household income (median for MoCo). I love how our definition of “affordable” has ballooned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can have my single family house - im moving because the dc council voted to raise taxes again - maki g them the highest in the nation.

1) DC tax burden is lower than MD or VA.
2) if you are making over $500,000 and the $30/mo in additional taxes is going to overburden you, then you are a horrible money manager. You will spend more on your moving truck and crew.

Sales Tax
DC 6%
MD 6%
VA 5.3%

Ppty Tax (per $100)
DC 0.85
MoCo from 1.08 to 1.64
PG 0.86
Arlington 1.013
Alex 1.13
Fairfax 1.03
LoCo 0.98

Need to factor in the annual car tax in Virginia - that is fairly significant.

we pay under $1000 a year in car tax.

Consider the INCOME taxes though.

DC taxes income over 60k to 350k at the 8.5% tax bracket
MD taxes income over 3k to 150k at the 7.95% tax bracket
VA tax rate is around 5.75%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what. Middle income families do not want to live next to rich families and vice versa. Do not ignore human nature.

Middle income families don’t want to live next to rich families?

That is right. Not next to a bunch of Joneses they can never keep up with. Their children will feel deprived rather than MC. Human nature.

LMAO! You do know that Real Housewives of Potomac was filmed right here in the DC burbs, right? And sorry but NOBODY wants to "keep up" with a bunch of crass, greedy, low class bithxes that managed to grift and scam their way into multimillion dollar houses in the DC burbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is entitled to live in NWDC or anywhere else. Go move to my hometown where you can buy a new build right now for $100k if you want cheap houses.

+100 We live in a co-op where people gripe about escalating prices. Yeah well wouldn't be escalating if they hadn't ignored reserve studies and if they hadn't ignored inflation and hadn
t voted for board members who disingenuously campaigned on no cost increases even as infrastructure crumbled and went neglected. I wasn't given a guarantee that this place would be affordable when I moved here so why do you think YOU should be given a guarantee of affordability?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, do we have an agreement on what constitutes a "middle-income" home?

Here is a link to what used to be a typical a middle-income home - 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths - and quite similar to the one I grew up in during my early childhood. Dad was a college graduate and professional who commuted to DC from Silver Spring (and this was way before the Metro: think in terms of Mom driving him to the bus stop, and him having to make two transfers), and costs $425,000. It has a nice backyard for the kids to play. So....do we agree that this is a decent middle-income home, or do the high-earning "elites" on this forum look their nose down on it?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/13200-May-Ct-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37308032_zpid/?

Or, here's another one, in the same general area. This is how all the middle-class kids I grew up with lived:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3930-Wendy-Ln-Silver-Spring-MD-20906/37308239_zpid/

Either of those are typically $650,000 in my suburban Virginia neighborhood. That's middle class right?

Nope, $650,000 is fairly affluent. And that's what they go for in my suburban Virginia neighborhood, too, so I know all about it.

But the point was the posters have been complaining that there isn't enough middle-income housing, and I was showing that there ARE middle-income houses in the area. It's just that middle-income people might have to move to Silver Spring where the houses can be had for $400,000. I see some of them in areas of Rockville, as well - the 1950s style ranchers and split-levels. What's so bad about having to move to where you can afford a house?

i think you are missing the sense of entitlement that many proponents here have. They want affordable housing in the most expensive neighborhoods in Ward 3. Yeh, and I want an affordable condo on the top floor of the Wharf of the Potomac. Simple answer is that the proponents need to get a life, or make more money. More thoughtful approach is to improve other neighborhoods in DC.

Oh no, I didn't miss the sense of entitlement - I just was very subtle about it. I KNOW that a lot of these elitist do-gooders think that middle-income people are entitled to live in the most expensive neighborhoods in the city. But they're NOT. If a couple is earning $100,000 combined, they CAN afford a house, but it might not be in their first choice of locations. I mentioned Silver Spring or Rockville, but there's also Gaithersburg that has some modest older homes. In Virginia, my state, there are cheap(er) houses out in Sterling or Herndon.

And too bad if they want to live in DC. My own parents went through the same choice 50 years ago, when they were renting an apartment in NW DC (near Rock Creek) and wanted to buy a house (second child on the way). They looked at smallish homes in their area, and they all topped out well over $40,000. (This was in the early 60s.) So they looked at cheaper areas in DC, and thought "nope" - schools weren't good. So they hiked it out to Silver Spring, where they bought a nice split-level home for around $30,000. Did my dad LIKE that his commute into DC was now more than an hour, when he was previously able to hop a bus and be at work in 20 minutes? NOPE. But he did what responsible adults do, wanting to provide a house for their family - they bought where they could afford.

Right at this MOMENT there might be a housing shortage, but once this unusual demand is over, there are plenty of 50s and 60s ranch and split-level houses available in the $400,000 range. And if not, there is always an option of buying a townhouse, and then working UP to a single family house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know, 20% of a $400k house is still $80k. That’s a lot to save on $108k household income (median for MoCo). I love how our definition of “affordable” has ballooned.

So? There are options there as well. One can get an FHA mortgage with 5% down (it might be as low as 3.5%), meaning all they need is $20,000. With an income of $108,000, they can save that in two or three years if they put their minds to it. And true, they'll have to pay PMI, but I had to do that with my first place, too.

What is it with all these people and the excuses for why people can't buy a home? And who says it has to be a single-family house? What's wrong with a 3-bedroom townhouse with two full bathrooms - one for the parents and one for the kids? Until I was 13, we lived in a house of five people with 1 full bathroom (plus a half-bath by the rec room). Way too much entitlement these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can have my single family house - im moving because the dc council voted to raise taxes again - maki g them the highest in the nation.

1) DC tax burden is lower than MD or VA.
2) if you are making over $500,000 and the $30/mo in additional taxes is going to overburden you, then you are a horrible money manager. You will spend more on your moving truck and crew.

Sales Tax
DC 6%
MD 6%
VA 5.3%

Ppty Tax (per $100)
DC 0.85
MoCo from 1.08 to 1.64
PG 0.86
Arlington 1.013
Alex 1.13
Fairfax 1.03
LoCo 0.98

Need to factor in the annual car tax in Virginia - that is fairly significant.

we pay under $1000 a year in car tax.

Consider the INCOME taxes though.

DC taxes income over 60k to 350k at the 8.5% tax bracket
MD taxes income over 3k to 150k at the 7.95% tax bracket
VA tax rate is around 5.75%

Northern Virginia has a special tax for sales, it's 6%. Because the rest of the state needs money.