Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just received another fundraising plea from them yesterday, even though our student was “terminated” by the University three years ago.

Our student had a crummy case of long covid which went undiagnosed during a semester. - They went for a mononucleosis test in town, other tests, nothing was showing up. Their grades really suffered that semester.

When they were home over break, they finally had the correct diagnosis, but they missed the deadline at school to report an illness that would excuse their grades.

Because of the international student visa, they would not be able to complete their degree within the Visa timeframe, unless extra time was granted by the University.

So- the dean in charge of our student’s case was not moved by this plight, “terminated” our student and sent them home, just as their health was improving.

Our student appealed, with more detailed letters from doctors, letters of support from professors within the department of their major, and the same Dean denied the appeal.

Our student appealed a second time, but unless there was “new” evidence to add to the appeal, the second set of administrators were not allowed to overturn the decision by the first dean.

So our student had to leave and enroll at local state U at home. Three years into their major. After their health was back on track and they were busy and involved with friends, clubs, academic life.

Unfortunately because of the difference between UK and USA- our by then 21 year old student had to start over with all the liberal arts requirements that they didn’t have to do at St Andrews. Psych 101, English 101, Math 101 etc etc etc. So instead of just finishing up a few classes in the major and moving on, our student is back at the beginning as a commuter student.

Meanwhile- the departmental head at St Andrews was encouraging our student to reapply. So- they did. With letters of support from professors and the student services office.

Somehow that same Dean got wind that our student was reapplying, miffed that his colleagues were trying to circumvent his authority,he marched over to admissions office and told them in no uncertain terms was our student’s application allowed to be reviewed.

That administrator also told his colleagues they should not have been in touch with our student and that he could “write them up” for that.

According to the St Andrews handbook- students ARE allowed to reapply who have had extenuating circumstances, but apparently our student’s long haul Covid, and “wasn’t compelling” (their words).

They just needed one extra semester.

Honestly it was a case of petty administrative jealousies and stupid power moves, with our student caught in the middle.

Iy was such a disappointing experience handled so unprofessionally. Our student had excellent grades until they were ill, and every administrator was in their own little bubble with “their hands tied, sorry, don’t take it personally.” Total government bureaucracy mentality at that school (they call that ‘no hand holding”).


It was a heartbreaking, expensive (starting over at new American U) headache with that school.

Every time we get a glossy plea from their development office it reminds me how poorly they dealt with this issue and how poorly the school is run.

Caveat emptor

I read this as you being a PITA. That's why they didn't want your kid back.

St Andrews doesn’t have a development office

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just received another fundraising plea from them yesterday, even though our student was “terminated” by the University three years ago.

Our student had a crummy case of long covid which went undiagnosed during a semester. - They went for a mononucleosis test in town, other tests, nothing was showing up. Their grades really suffered that semester.

When they were home over break, they finally had the correct diagnosis, but they missed the deadline at school to report an illness that would excuse their grades.

Because of the international student visa, they would not be able to complete their degree within the Visa timeframe, unless extra time was granted by the University.

So- the dean in charge of our student’s case was not moved by this plight, “terminated” our student and sent them home, just as their health was improving.

Our student appealed, with more detailed letters from doctors, letters of support from professors within the department of their major, and the same Dean denied the appeal.

Our student appealed a second time, but unless there was “new” evidence to add to the appeal, the second set of administrators were not allowed to overturn the decision by the first dean.

So our student had to leave and enroll at local state U at home. Three years into their major. After their health was back on track and they were busy and involved with friends, clubs, academic life.

Unfortunately because of the difference between UK and USA- our by then 21 year old student had to start over with all the liberal arts requirements that they didn’t have to do at St Andrews. Psych 101, English 101, Math 101 etc etc etc. So instead of just finishing up a few classes in the major and moving on, our student is back at the beginning as a commuter student.

Meanwhile- the departmental head at St Andrews was encouraging our student to reapply. So- they did. With letters of support from professors and the student services office.

Somehow that same Dean got wind that our student was reapplying, miffed that his colleagues were trying to circumvent his authority,he marched over to admissions office and told them in no uncertain terms was our student’s application allowed to be reviewed.

That administrator also told his colleagues they should not have been in touch with our student and that he could “write them up” for that.

According to the St Andrews handbook- students ARE allowed to reapply who have had extenuating circumstances, but apparently our student’s long haul Covid, and “wasn’t compelling” (their words).

They just needed one extra semester.

Honestly it was a case of petty administrative jealousies and stupid power moves, with our student caught in the middle.

Iy was such a disappointing experience handled so unprofessionally. Our student had excellent grades until they were ill, and every administrator was in their own little bubble with “their hands tied, sorry, don’t take it personally.” Total government bureaucracy mentality at that school (they call that ‘no hand holding”).


It was a heartbreaking, expensive (starting over at new American U) headache with that school.

Every time we get a glossy plea from their development office it reminds me how poorly they dealt with this issue and how poorly the school is run.

Caveat emptor

I read this as you being a PITA. That's why they didn't want your kid back.

St Andrews doesn’t have a development office

The situation has nothing to do with development. Go back up and read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just received another fundraising plea from them yesterday, even though our student was “terminated” by the University three years ago.

Our student had a crummy case of long covid which went undiagnosed during a semester. - They went for a mononucleosis test in town, other tests, nothing was showing up. Their grades really suffered that semester.

When they were home over break, they finally had the correct diagnosis, but they missed the deadline at school to report an illness that would excuse their grades.

Because of the international student visa, they would not be able to complete their degree within the Visa timeframe, unless extra time was granted by the University.

So- the dean in charge of our student’s case was not moved by this plight, “terminated” our student and sent them home, just as their health was improving.

Our student appealed, with more detailed letters from doctors, letters of support from professors within the department of their major, and the same Dean denied the appeal.

Our student appealed a second time, but unless there was “new” evidence to add to the appeal, the second set of administrators were not allowed to overturn the decision by the first dean.

So our student had to leave and enroll at local state U at home. Three years into their major. After their health was back on track and they were busy and involved with friends, clubs, academic life.

Unfortunately because of the difference between UK and USA- our by then 21 year old student had to start over with all the liberal arts requirements that they didn’t have to do at St Andrews. Psych 101, English 101, Math 101 etc etc etc. So instead of just finishing up a few classes in the major and moving on, our student is back at the beginning as a commuter student.

Meanwhile- the departmental head at St Andrews was encouraging our student to reapply. So- they did. With letters of support from professors and the student services office.

Somehow that same Dean got wind that our student was reapplying, miffed that his colleagues were trying to circumvent his authority,he marched over to admissions office and told them in no uncertain terms was our student’s application allowed to be reviewed.

That administrator also told his colleagues they should not have been in touch with our student and that he could “write them up” for that.

According to the St Andrews handbook- students ARE allowed to reapply who have had extenuating circumstances, but apparently our student’s long haul Covid, and “wasn’t compelling” (their words).

They just needed one extra semester.

Honestly it was a case of petty administrative jealousies and stupid power moves, with our student caught in the middle.

Iy was such a disappointing experience handled so unprofessionally. Our student had excellent grades until they were ill, and every administrator was in their own little bubble with “their hands tied, sorry, don’t take it personally.” Total government bureaucracy mentality at that school (they call that ‘no hand holding”).


It was a heartbreaking, expensive (starting over at new American U) headache with that school.

Every time we get a glossy plea from their development office it reminds me how poorly they dealt with this issue and how poorly the school is run.

Caveat emptor

I read this as you being a PITA. That's why they didn't want your kid back.

St Andrews doesn’t have a development office

Actually, it does and the director is named Robert Fleming. https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/development/contact/. But 10:26's story has nothing to do with development - it's about a Dean who won't readmit a problem student.

[Anonymous]

Hi folks, to be clear- My student was actively encouraged to reapply by their professors who felt terribly about the way the case was handled, especially since illness was involved.

At St A, it’s the department heads who read applications and admit students.

So -the department head in our student’s major was encouraging them to reapply, they were very kind and confident they’d work this all out.

The faculty support was kind and sincere, and they were genuinely trying to help keep our student enrolled.

It was the Administrative Dean, independent of the faculty, who refused to listen to take their colleagues wishes into consideration, would only follow handbook protocol and blocked the application from reaching the department head. They chastised the department head for supporting our student and told them to back off. This dean had never met our student, we’d never communicated with them.

The point of this story is, our student WAS an independent problem solver who was not asking for “hand holding”- they navigated campus lockdowns, illness, two academic senate appeals, and a reapplication to the University on their own.

Ultimately none of that matters with the administration at St A- it’s a different mindset- it’s governmental bureaucracy.

I think some of the reactions to this story reinforce what the mentality is there. Why the sneering?

The administration is not in the business of problem solving and student retention the way educators are here.

Our student is fine, disappointed they couldn’t finish their degree in their excellent department of study at St Andrews, their first choice school.

If you are considering St Andrews for 4 years of undergrad, remember that “no handholding” is a catch all phrase for “ follow the handbook and hope nothing unexpected comes up”

You can all yell at me again, I’m honestly just sharing this to inform prospective parents what we found.

And yes, there is most certainly a development office- they are still mailing and calling us regularly. Can’t seem to get off that list.

[Anonymous]

Why did she want to go back?

[Anonymous]

For the excellent education, the friendships with nice students from around the world, the interesting clubs and sports they participated in.

They were really involved in campus life, had a great relationship with the departmental head and other professors in that department.

[Anonymous]

Honestly our student didn't expect special treatment as an American, I guess they just expected … some kind of face to face communication with an administration that wanted to kick them out, despite their department wanting them to stay?

If this story isn’t something you’d take into consideration when choosing a school , I understand. Most people won’t be in this situation.

20-20 hindsight - choose the school that wants you there. You can see from the comments from presumably the UK community that they don’t really want us there

[Anonymous]

I know someone who left with an at-the-time undiagnosed illness and returned without issue. I do think they probably had to work that out w the school before they left, but that's true w any school. But for sure she didn't have a diagnosis for many months.

[Anonymous]

Yes- our student was in the same boat. This is why our student was reassured they could reapply and be readmitted, because the department head had handled a lot of cases like this during Covid.

Unfortunately the dean who ended up reading the appeal was especially harsh, according to the department chair. But there was nothing the faculty could do about any of it.

This is a different culture- they don’t worry about law suits and they aren’t paid enough, honestly, to deal with students personally if they don’t want to.

Americans are coming from a more collaborative background with education- most schools will move mountains to help a student with an easily fixable problem.

Cynically it might just be to keep retention rates high at their universities for the rankings.

[Anonymous]

Ding ding ding

You get what you pay for- there’s a reason the UK unis are more affordable

Now sod off

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the excellent education, the friendships with nice students from around the world, the interesting clubs and sports they participated in.

They were really involved in campus life, had a great relationship with the departmental head and other professors in that department.

This all sounds like very positive.

[Anonymous]

very positive! illness is rare. Yale had a lawsuit about a kid not being able to return after a mental health leave. it happens all over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:very positive! illness is rare. Yale had a lawsuit about a kid not being able to return after a mental health leave. it happens all over.

Because it's easy to sue in America. England and Scottland have a different system. If you go there, be prepared. There is no handholding; they ignore alphabet disabilities that our schools give accommodations for; if you get sick you are on your own.

[Anonymous]

Follow the rules=graduate on time without problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just received another fundraising plea from them yesterday, even though our student was “terminated” by the University three years ago.

Our student had a crummy case of long covid which went undiagnosed during a semester. - They went for a mononucleosis test in town, other tests, nothing was showing up. Their grades really suffered that semester.

When they were home over break, they finally had the correct diagnosis, but they missed the deadline at school to report an illness that would excuse their grades.

Because of the international student visa, they would not be able to complete their degree within the Visa timeframe, unless extra time was granted by the University.

So- the dean in charge of our student’s case was not moved by this plight, “terminated” our student and sent them home, just as their health was improving.

Our student appealed, with more detailed letters from doctors, letters of support from professors within the department of their major, and the same Dean denied the appeal.

Our student appealed a second time, but unless there was “new” evidence to add to the appeal, the second set of administrators were not allowed to overturn the decision by the first dean.

So our student had to leave and enroll at local state U at home. Three years into their major. After their health was back on track and they were busy and involved with friends, clubs, academic life.

Unfortunately because of the difference between UK and USA- our by then 21 year old student had to start over with all the liberal arts requirements that they didn’t have to do at St Andrews. Psych 101, English 101, Math 101 etc etc etc. So instead of just finishing up a few classes in the major and moving on, our student is back at the beginning as a commuter student.

Meanwhile- the departmental head at St Andrews was encouraging our student to reapply. So- they did. With letters of support from professors and the student services office.

Somehow that same Dean got wind that our student was reapplying, miffed that his colleagues were trying to circumvent his authority,he marched over to admissions office and told them in no uncertain terms was our student’s application allowed to be reviewed.

That administrator also told his colleagues they should not have been in touch with our student and that he could “write them up” for that.

According to the St Andrews handbook- students ARE allowed to reapply who have had extenuating circumstances, but apparently our student’s long haul Covid, and “wasn’t compelling” (their words).

They just needed one extra semester.

Honestly it was a case of petty administrative jealousies and stupid power moves, with our student caught in the middle.

Iy was such a disappointing experience handled so unprofessionally. Our student had excellent grades until they were ill, and every administrator was in their own little bubble with “their hands tied, sorry, don’t take it personally.” Total government bureaucracy mentality at that school (they call that ‘no hand holding”).


It was a heartbreaking, expensive (starting over at new American U) headache with that school.

Every time we get a glossy plea from their development office it reminds me how poorly they dealt with this issue and how poorly the school is run.

Caveat emptor

I am so sorry that this happened to your child.