Pinching

[Anonymous]

My 5yo is nonverbal and very delayed. He has a communication device and signs fairly well. However, he has a newly independent, stubborn streak and is pinching with his nails every time he doesn’t get his way. My face & arms are so scratched up and I can’t seem to break this behavior. Time outs and telling him ‘no’ have zero effect. He has started pinching and scratching his brothers as well. Since he is not autistic, he doesn’t qualify for any ABA therapy, which is what his dev ped said would be most effective. Any advice?

[Anonymous]

At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

He has been diagnosed with apraxia of speech and also has a brain malformation. He is unable to form consonants and also unable to chew food. Putting him in his room is fine at home - but this happens a lot when we’re out. Today, for example, I was trying to talk with his speech therapist about his session. He wouldn’t stand with me and was pinching my arm to start walking to the car. So I picked him up and he was pinching my face. If I try to buckle him into a stroller, he pinches both my arms and my face. Same with the carseat. Same if he doesn’t want to go upstairs to bed. Same if a brother has something he wants, is in his space, is too loud, etc. He is otherwise very happy & outgoing and in a lot of ways easier than my others... but this pinching thing is getting out of control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

This is really tone deaf and inappropriate. Stop making every situation about your obsession with "language disorder" versus autism.

Op, I would appeal my insurance for behavioral therapy. What kind of school setting is he in? I agree that ABA might be helpful. It might be a good idea in the meantime if cost is a huge factor - and it is hugely costly - to hire a ABA therapist for a few hours a week and have them develop a plan you can implement.

I am guessing you need planned ignoring and some positive reinforces. Is he intellectually disabled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

This is really tone deaf and inappropriate. Stop making every situation about your obsession with "language disorder" versus autism.

Op, I would appeal my insurance for behavioral therapy. What kind of school setting is he in? I agree that ABA might be helpful. It might be a good idea in the meantime if cost is a huge factor - and it is hugely costly - to hire a ABA therapist for a few hours a week and have them develop a plan you can implement.

I am guessing you need planned ignoring and some positive reinforces. Is he intellectually disabled?

Thanks, PP. He is technically considered intellectually disabled, but he is very smart. He’s a jokester and therefore a poor test taker. He often follows his pinching with a ‘gentle touch’ to thwart any type of punishment. He’s been in developmental preschool, but he will start kindergarten in the fall. He has never been aggressive in any way at school. We see his dev ped again next month, and will bring up ABA again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

This is really tone deaf and inappropriate. Stop making every situation about your obsession with "language disorder" versus autism.

Op, I would appeal my insurance for behavioral therapy. What kind of school setting is he in? I agree that ABA might be helpful. It might be a good idea in the meantime if cost is a huge factor - and it is hugely costly - to hire a ABA therapist for a few hours a week and have them develop a plan you can implement.

I am guessing you need planned ignoring and some positive reinforces. Is he intellectually disabled?

They will not pay for a language disorder, especially apraxia and a brain concern. They will only pay with an ASD diagnosis so it is in her interest to shop developmental pets and get the ASD diagnosis if it gets the services right now. There is clearly more going on than just a language issue.

[Anonymous]

Do you have a behavioral therapist that you work with? Putting aside the insurance issue, it seems like a behavioral therapist would be best suited to helping you.
My immediate thoughts are:
(1) prevent him from making the contact, to the extent possible (e.g., fold your arms up around your chest, turn your back etc.) just to protect yourself from injury;
(2) divert the hands -- hand him a fidget toy or something else to hold onto;
(3) give him a different outlet -- he's pinching because he can't do what most kids do, which is to really irritatingly say "Moooooooooommmmmmmm, I want to leeeeeeeeeeeeeeave noooooooooooow." Is there something else he can do that will express his frustration without hurting you? Maybe something with his communication device?
(4) Use the same techniques that parents of verbal kids use when their kids are doing the "Mooooooooooommmmmmmmmm!!!!" trick -- one trick that sometimes works is to say something like: "I need 2 minutes to talk to your therapist. Let's set this timer on your watch for 2 minutes, and I promise we will leave when that timer goes off. If you can be quiet for those 2 minutes, you can pick the music for the ride home."

And just sending lots of sympathy. I think having a child that hurts you physically is one of the toughest things -- we're so conditioned not to put up with physical abuse from anyone, but when it's your kid and they are doing it because of a disability, there's no easy answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

This is really tone deaf and inappropriate. Stop making every situation about your obsession with "language disorder" versus autism.

Op, I would appeal my insurance for behavioral therapy. What kind of school setting is he in? I agree that ABA might be helpful. It might be a good idea in the meantime if cost is a huge factor - and it is hugely costly - to hire a ABA therapist for a few hours a week and have them develop a plan you can implement.

I am guessing you need planned ignoring and some positive reinforces. Is he intellectually disabled?

They will not pay for a language disorder, especially apraxia and a brain concern. They will only pay with an ASD diagnosis so it is in her interest to shop developmental pets and get the ASD diagnosis if it gets the services right now. There is clearly more going on than just a language issue.

Dude, op never said he has a language disorder. He’s nonverbal. Not everything is about you and your kid with “Merld”. You’re so predictable and unhelpful it’s just incredible.

[Anonymous]

So first don't tell him 'no'
Tell him 'x' is not available. It will let him know exactly what you mean.
Also how do you react when he pinches you? What happens?
I know it's hard but remain neutral and simply move away. Keep doing these things consistently and he'll know pinching doesn't 1. Get him any attention 2. Doesn't get him the desired thing (tangible or not)

For the kids just remove him from them as well. When he pinches or scratches them let him know that's unavailable. You have to be consistent.

Honestly I do recommend ABA. Is there a CES program at your school? Even if your child is not it I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving you some advice. They wouldn't actually be able to give your son therapy (legally) but they could offer some advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So first don't tell him 'no'
Tell him 'x' is not available. It will let him know exactly what you mean.
Also how do you react when he pinches you? What happens?
I know it's hard but remain neutral and simply move away. Keep doing these things consistently and he'll know pinching doesn't 1. Get him any attention 2. Doesn't get him the desired thing (tangible or not)

For the kids just remove him from them as well. When he pinches or scratches them let him know that's unavailable. You have to be consistent.

Honestly I do recommend ABA. Is there a CES program at your school? Even if your child is not it I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving you some advice. They wouldn't actually be able to give your son therapy (legally) but they could offer some advice.

Oh I also wanted to add that when he stops pinching and does the right thing to immediately follow up with praise. Let him know that not pinching makes you really happy. If your child does not respond to praise at all still do it, however you can also pair that praise with a small edible reinforcer like 1 mini m&m or whatever he enjoys. Unless the reason why he was upset is he was told candy wasn't available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

This is really tone deaf and inappropriate. Stop making every situation about your obsession with "language disorder" versus autism.

Op, I would appeal my insurance for behavioral therapy. What kind of school setting is he in? I agree that ABA might be helpful. It might be a good idea in the meantime if cost is a huge factor - and it is hugely costly - to hire a ABA therapist for a few hours a week and have them develop a plan you can implement.

I am guessing you need planned ignoring and some positive reinforces. Is he intellectually disabled?

They will not pay for a language disorder, especially apraxia and a brain concern. They will only pay with an ASD diagnosis so it is in her interest to shop developmental pets and get the ASD diagnosis if it gets the services right now. There is clearly more going on than just a language issue.

She already stated that he has been diagnosed with apraxia. That is not a language disorder. It is a motor speech disorder. Completely different. It would not be better for her to shop for an ASD diagnosis if her kid doesn’t have autism. What is wrong with you? He is pinching bc he has no other way to communicate his displeasure. OP, how is he communicating? PECS? I would be looking for an SLP with experience with high tech AAC devices. He is five and must have a way to communicate. Often insurance will pay for devices if you have an experienced SLP to help with it. There are also multiple programs for grants, etc.

[Anonymous]

PP here. ABA will not help with the helping. He has no other way to communicate when he is mad. He can’t scream no. He can’t say Mom over and over again. Get him a device, teach him to use it, program appropriate phrases in it like Mom I want to go now, I’m bored, stop, I don’t want to do it. Please give him a way to communicate. If he has normal receptive language and cognitive abilities he is soooo frustrated. If the SLP has not brought this up for a 5 yr old nonverbal child then she is not the best fit for him. She prob has no idea how to go about getting one, finding what would be the fit, etc. Most importnantly, she is not willing to learn and would rather your kid suffer bc she is lazy. There are actual people who will come to you and do an AAC assessment and find what would work best for your kid or narrow it down and then let you guys try out different devices on a trial basis to see what works best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At five, he should be more verbal if its just a language disorder and language should be slowly coming in, so there should be another diagnosis. I'd put him in his room and cut his nails. You may need to gently hold him till he calms down if you can. I would get him a better evaluation at age 5. Any child not even starting to talk at 5 is a huge concern. Many late talkers don't start really being verbal till 4-5 but generally that is the time they start to improve.

This is really tone deaf and inappropriate. Stop making every situation about your obsession with "language disorder" versus autism.

Op, I would appeal my insurance for behavioral therapy. What kind of school setting is he in? I agree that ABA might be helpful. It might be a good idea in the meantime if cost is a huge factor - and it is hugely costly - to hire a ABA therapist for a few hours a week and have them develop a plan you can implement.

I am guessing you need planned ignoring and some positive reinforces. Is he intellectually disabled?

They will not pay for a language disorder, especially apraxia and a brain concern. They will only pay with an ASD diagnosis so it is in her interest to shop developmental pets and get the ASD diagnosis if it gets the services right now. There is clearly more going on than just a language issue.

She already stated that he has been diagnosed with apraxia. That is not a language disorder. It is a motor speech disorder. Completely different. It would not be better for her to shop for an ASD diagnosis if her kid doesn’t have autism. What is wrong with you? He is pinching bc he has no other way to communicate his displeasure. OP, how is he communicating? PECS? I would be looking for an SLP with experience with high tech AAC devices. He is five and must have a way to communicate. Often insurance will pay for devices if you have an experienced SLP to help with it. There are also multiple programs for grants, etc.

If he's completely non-verbal, that is not apraxia fully. Apraxia is a language disorder. A motor speech disorder is a Language disorder. Anything to do with speech is a language disorder. Insurance, expect a few, do not pay for language disorders, just ASD, so yes, it would be in her benefit to shop around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. ABA will not help with the helping. He has no other way to communicate when he is mad. He can’t scream no. He can’t say Mom over and over again. Get him a device, teach him to use it, program appropriate phrases in it like Mom I want to go now, I’m bored, stop, I don’t want to do it. Please give him a way to communicate. If he has normal receptive language and cognitive abilities he is soooo frustrated. If the SLP has not brought this up for a 5 yr old nonverbal child then she is not the best fit for him. She prob has no idea how to go about getting one, finding what would be the fit, etc. Most importnantly, she is not willing to learn and would rather your kid suffer bc she is lazy. There are actual people who will come to you and do an AAC assessment and find what would work best for your kid or narrow it down and then let you guys try out different devices on a trial basis to see what works best.

OP says in the second sentence of the first post that he has a communication device.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. ABA will not help with the helping. He has no other way to communicate when he is mad. He can’t scream no. He can’t say Mom over and over again. Get him a device, teach him to use it, program appropriate phrases in it like Mom I want to go now, I’m bored, stop, I don’t want to do it. Please give him a way to communicate. If he has normal receptive language and cognitive abilities he is soooo frustrated. If the SLP has not brought this up for a 5 yr old nonverbal child then she is not the best fit for him. She prob has no idea how to go about getting one, finding what would be the fit, etc. Most importnantly, she is not willing to learn and would rather your kid suffer bc she is lazy. There are actual people who will come to you and do an AAC assessment and find what would work best for your kid or narrow it down and then let you guys try out different devices on a trial basis to see what works best.

Please don't give advice if you're not fully going to read the OP. He has a device, the main issue is pinching which ABA most certainly can help with. Btw ABA also helps with communication.
Agree that SLP might not be the best fit...