Volleyball club- recap and thoughts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue Ridge is not there because it didn’t apply to be there.

Did you check here that shows all the teams that applied?

https://www.advancedeventsystems.com/events/33602

Thanks - I did check. Was curious as to why Blue Ridge didn't apply. They are certainly worthy to be there.

Definitely- Blue Ridge is a fantastic club. They do focus on beach though and will often not go to indoor nationals despite qualifing becuase the beach season starts. They are really fun to watch when they play a traditional indoor team b/c the play "tight" meaning they are used to shorter court in beach and are super quick and they have some excellent, talented players. I absoluely love the vibe, energy of Blue Ridge. We are in Nova and can't do the commute, otherwise DD would play for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe people are on this forum arguing about the results of tournaments with kids who are 12 and 13 years old. What has this crazy volleyball world come to where we’re bashing the play of 12 and 13 year olds…

Agreed. I have no idea whether the MVSA 12s team is "better" than the Paramount 13-2s and it really doesn't matter. Younger teams beat older team all the time - these are kids and not robots. Sometimes they play up to what they are capable of and sometimes they don't.

Also, I think it's pretty well established that MVSA is a solid club and a good value for the money. Their coaches are all volunteers, they utilize school gyms which are cost effective, and they don't provide as much swag as many other clubs (practice shirts, warmups, etc.). MVSA also hosts a lot of tournaments which helps to offset costs. All of these contribute to MVSA having the lowest club fees in the area. That said, it doesn't mean other clubs are bad or overpriced - they are just structured differently. Choose the club that works best for you and your DD.

No matter how much I agree with most of your message, the bolded part made me smile. There are definitely bad clubs, there are definitely overpriced clubs, and there are bad AND overpriced clubs. All of them address a "need" and help club owners make a decent profit. Or a really good profit (depending how overpriced they are).

I wrote the quoted post and definitely understand what you’re saying and do agree there are definitely different degrees of quality, but I was thinking more if the players on a team have fun and improve at the game, regardless of how many medals they get or matches they win, then that should be enough for most players. If you’re measuring quality based on wins and losses, then you are correct that there are some bad clubs.

Club volleyball is undeniably expensive, but for the most part I don’t think club directors/club owners are getting rich from club fees. It’s my understanding that the margins for club fees are pretty low. Clubs make more money from rec leagues, clinics, and camps. They can pack a lot more players into a gym with far future coaches meaning the overhead is much lower.

MVSA (particularly at the younger age groups) is one of very few examples of clubs where the cost is low and the teams win but I think their model would be hard to replicate because finding that many volunteer coaches of a high quality would be tough. Understandably, MVSA attracts a lot of girls to their tryouts. Generally, they only take 10 players per team and making one of their teams, especially the top team in an age group, can be challenging.

I don't think anyone measures club quality only based on wins and loses. But I would not completely discard them as irrelevant. Improving their game is certainly part of the equation, but it is hard to believe that someone attends two practices per week without getting better (the improvement rate is more important than just improvement). Players can improve more or less depending on their drive and the environment. A good coach is essential (and not many clubs can brag about having good coaches for all their teams). Players get fewer touches if the practices are overcrowded. Some clubs are completely unrealistic about the level of their players and take their "travel" teams into tournaments just to be completely wiped (this doesn't help the player morale). Fun is a combination between everything above. Some players have more fun when they are pushed hard in a competitive environment, while others just want to have fun without being pushed too hard.

There is some math on a different thread showing that clubs can make good profit, especially if they fill their rosters with plenty of bench warmers. Maryland clubs might have low profit margins, but I am not buying the same idea for the Virginia clubs.

[Anonymous]

With CHRVA Bid Regionals coming up this weekend, does anyone know how many bids are available in each age bracket? Someone posted a great explanation of last year's landscape. Would be interested to see what is up for grabs this year.

[Anonymous]

It's usually 1 National and 1 American, plus any reallocated BIDs.

[Anonymous]

There is 1 National, 1 American and this year there are 2 Freedom bids- at least for 14U and older, maybe 13U too?

[FPYCparent]

The official USAV document (https://usavolleyball.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/2024-Bid-Allocations-All-Divisions.pdf) lists CHRVA as having these allocated bids:

U11: 1x National
U12 & U13: 1x National, 1x American
U14 - U18: 1x National, 1x American, 2x Freedom

The earned bids are tracked on spreadsheets linked here: https://usavolleyball.org/compete/girls-indoor/2024-girls-and-18s-qualifier-results/

MDJRS 13 Elite also earned a Liberty bid at the Sunshine Classic, so I don't know which of their bids will get reallocated (Liberty vs. American). Metro 18 Travel has an Open bid from the Ohio Valley Qualifier. Renaissance 18 Black DC got an American bid at NEQ.

CHRVA is second in line to get reallocated bid for American (14 through 17); and fifth in line for National (14 through 18).

...

Here's the per-club breakdown (listed alphabetically):

Potentially two more CHRVA teams will get a bid due to reallocation as of April 25th

American: 1x Freedom (American 18)

Columbia: 1x National (Columbia 18 Black)

Liberty Elite VBC:
1x American (LEVBC U14 National)
1x Freedom (LEVBC U17 National)

Libero VBC: 1x Freedom (Libero 14 Huskies)

MDJRS:
2x National (MDJRS 13 Elite, MDJRS 18 Elite - reallocated)
1x American (MDJRS 14 Elite - reallocated bid)
1x Freedom (MDJRS 15 Elite)

Metro:
2x Open (Metro 14, Metro 18)
4x National (Metro 13 -- reallocated bid, Metro 15, Metro 16, Metro 17)

MOCO: 1x American (MOCO Motion 13 - reallocated bid)

MOJO: 1x Freedom (MOJO Elite 18)

MVSA:
1x Liberty (MVSA 13 Wahoo!)
1x National (MVSA 14 Force - reallocated)
2x American (MVSA 12 Vortex - reallocated, MVSA 15 Charge)
1x Freedom (MVSA 16 Sparks)

Paramount:
1x Open (Paramount 15)
2x National (Paramount 11, Paramount 14)
4x American (Paramount 12, Paramount 13, Paramount 16, Paramount 17 - reallocated)
1x Freedom (Paramount 14-2)

Premier EDGE:
1x American (Premier EDGE 17)
1x Freedom (Premier EDGE 15)

Renaissance DC: 1x American (Renaissance 18 Black DC)

Renaissance DE: 1x National (Renaissance 12 Black DE)

VA Elite:
1x National (VA Elite 17 - reallocated)
1x American (VA Elite 18)

VA Juniors:
1x USA (VA Juniors 15)
1x American (VA Juniors 18 - reallocated)
2x Freedom (VA Juniors 16, VA Juniors 17)


Updated list above after mid-April qualifiers ... hopefully I got them all correct. CHRVA is up to 40 teams going to GJNC, with potentially two more to come!

[Anonymous]

FPYCparent wrote:The official USAV document (https://usavolleyball.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/2024-Bid-Allocations-All-Divisions.pdf) lists CHRVA as having these allocated bids:

U11: 1x National (Paramount 11)
U12 & U13: 1x National (Renaissance 12 DE, Metro 13), 1x American (Paramount 12, MDJRS 13 Elite)
U14 - U17: 1x National (Paramount 14, Metro 15, Metro 16, Metro 17), 1x American (Metro 14, Paramount 15-1, Paramount 16, VA Elite 17), 2x Freedom (MVSA 14 Force, LEVBC U14 National, VA Juniors 15, MVSA 15 Charge, MVSA 16 Sparks, VA Juniors 16, Paramount 17, Premier EDGE 17)
U18: 1x National (Columbia 18 Black), 1x American (MDJRS 18 Elite), 2x Freedom (VA Elite 18s and VA JRS 18)

The earned bids are tracked on spreadsheets linked here: https://usavolleyball.org/compete/girls-indoor/2024-girls-and-18s-qualifier-results/

MDJRS 13 Elite also earned a Liberty bid at the Sunshine Classic, so I don't know which of their bids will get reallocated (Liberty vs. American). Metro 18 Travel has an Open bid from the Ohio Valley Qualifier. Renaissance 18 Black DC got an American bid at NEQ.

CHRVA is second in line to get reallocated bid for American (14 through 17); and fifth in line for National (14 through 18).

Updated list above after CHRVA Bid Regionals ... hopefully I got them all correct

Thank you! One minor addition is that it seems like Paramount 13s got a bid at regionals (they posted on their Instagram). Not sure exactly how though since they came in 4th. I know MDJRs 13s already had a bid but as you noted, there were only supposed to be 2 bids available at regionals for 13s so I’m not sure it rolled all the way down to 4th already.

[Anonymous]

Also not sure how Paramount 13 would get a trickle down bid from regionals since they came 4th.

[FPYCparent]

Agree with Paramount 13. I'll wait for the official USAV spreadsheets to get updated.

I've reformatted the post above to list bids earned by club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also not sure how Paramount 13 would get a trickle down bid from regionals since they came 4th.

A reallocated National Division Bid was given to the region earlier this week. So, now the top 4 all received bids.

1st place: National Bid
2nd Place: Reallocated National Bid
3rd Place: MDJRS Liberty Bid that they won at Sunshine stays with the Region. Since National division is higher than Liberty, MDJRS has to take the National bid.
4th place: American Bid

[FPYCparent]

Based on that information, I think the results from this weekend lead to the following:

1st Metro 13 gets the reallocated National bid
2nd MDJRS 13 gets the original National bid
3rd MVSA 13 Wahoo! gets the Liberty bid that was originally earned by MDJRS 13 as it stays in CHRVA
4th Paramount 13 gets the American bid

[Anonymous]

Ok, understood. Great that CHRVA got that additional bid so these 4 teams can go to Nationals.

[Anonymous]

That’s not a great return for VAE, or is it? I thought they didn’t play Regionals or has that changed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s not a great return for VAE, or is it? I thought they didn’t play Regionals or has that changed?

VAE wants to brand themselves as an open-level club yet they can only qualify one of their teams for nationals at CHRVA Regionals (let alone national qualifiers!).

[FPYCparent]

From my limited "experience" of 1.5 club years, I think I can say that winning at the Open level outside of CHRVA is HARD. We all agree that this region simply doesn't have dominant teams (on a national scale) like other regions where every club seems to be at least at the level of Metro/Paramount. I think I looked at Paramount's finishes from this year's Triple Crown NIT ... and only two of five teams(<== link) finished that event with equal or more wins than losses. None of those teams finished in the top half of their respective age groups.

So, for a club like VAE to consistently play Open, they are going to accept/have accepted that USAV bids are going to be few and far between. It doesn't mean that their teams are terrible. Those teams may have a bit of success if they played in lower divisions at qualifiers ... and could even get USAV bids at those levels. However, the players are getting exposure to high-level play (and to college recruiters seeking high-level players) even without the teams wins. It looks like the older teams (17s/18s) seem to perform fairly well. I just don't know much about the makeup of those teams to know if all of their talent came into VAE early and stayed ... or if quality players from other clubs switch to VAE in the 17s/18s years for more playing time.

Is there value in that exposure/experience that VAE teams/players receive? To me, that's something that can only be answered at a player/family level. I'm going to guess that there are players at the top clubs that are paying quite a bit and not getting any playing time. What's the value in that?