ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignored this thread for a while, but popped in to see if there was anything new only to see FC Copa still being mentioned.

They have a -78 GD in 10 games this fall in my daughter's AG (first 3 matches were all 10+ to 0). I'm not sure why anything they say is worth much.

Does your daughter play for their USL team?

My daughter plays ECNL, but FC Copa is a known joke of a club on the girls side. I have no clue why someone keeps propping up anything they say.

Joke or no joke they're being honest about placing Aug birthdays on the correct grade in school team just like Matchfit.

The reason DC clubs arent being as clear is because theres only one month of birthdays that potentially could play down a grade (because schools start school early Sept). New Jersey, New York and some of the Midwest states start school late Sept and all the way to Nov. Because of this players playing down a grade is a much bigger issue for these clubs and something they can't just try to sweep under the rug with parents and players. They know that colleges wont recruit misaligned players playing down a grade. So to avoid the issue all together they say Aug birthdays play with their grade.

Clubs around here will do the same after they get tired of messing around with accomodating the play downs.

Sure, they’ll play with their grade, but may be on a lower team.

That is how things work. If you dont make the A team you play on the B team thats your grade in school. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Makes things much easier to manage from a club perspective.

Clubs announcements within the last month or so said they are having kids play on age and best play up but a few are allowing kids to play up on lower teams to play with friends, kind of rec like. That's what they are doing in 6 months. Maybe you can get your grade year wish for Fall 2027 or Fall 2028.

They will go somewhere else and maybe play on an A team.

Sure but both the team and club will blow.

So far it's been the opposite as the best teams want kids playing on age (with a few top players allowed to play up) but a few are allowing kids to play up for grade with secondary teams. Then a couple of lesser teams that are trying to match their house rec leagues and go grade but it's been pretty rare.

Thank you Mr Future for your exciting feedback on what is happening 6 months from now.

What are you going to do this fall when top team players are all one graduating year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignored this thread for a while, but popped in to see if there was anything new only to see FC Copa still being mentioned.

They have a -78 GD in 10 games this fall in my daughter's AG (first 3 matches were all 10+ to 0). I'm not sure why anything they say is worth much.

Does your daughter play for their USL team?

My daughter plays ECNL, but FC Copa is a known joke of a club on the girls side. I have no clue why someone keeps propping up anything they say.

Joke or no joke they're being honest about placing Aug birthdays on the correct grade in school team just like Matchfit.

The reason DC clubs arent being as clear is because theres only one month of birthdays that potentially could play down a grade (because schools start school early Sept). New Jersey, New York and some of the Midwest states start school late Sept and all the way to Nov. Because of this players playing down a grade is a much bigger issue for these clubs and something they can't just try to sweep under the rug with parents and players. They know that colleges wont recruit misaligned players playing down a grade. So to avoid the issue all together they say Aug birthdays play with their grade.

Clubs around here will do the same after they get tired of messing around with accomodating the play downs.

Sure, they’ll play with their grade, but may be on a lower team.

That is how things work. If you dont make the A team you play on the B team thats your grade in school. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Makes things much easier to manage from a club perspective.

Clubs announcements within the last month or so said they are having kids play on age and best play up but a few are allowing kids to play up on lower teams to play with friends, kind of rec like. That's what they are doing in 6 months. Maybe you can get your grade year wish for Fall 2027 or Fall 2028.

They will go somewhere else and maybe play on an A team.

Sure but both the team and club will blow.

So far it's been the opposite as the best teams want kids playing on age (with a few top players allowed to play up) but a few are allowing kids to play up for grade with secondary teams. Then a couple of lesser teams that are trying to match their house rec leagues and go grade but it's been pretty rare.

Thank you Mr Future for your exciting feedback on what is happening 6 months from now.

What are you going to do this fall when top team players are all one graduating year?

DMV clubs said they are playing on age in Fall 2027. If the state of NJ goes grade year or a team in a fly over state does also, it won't hurt my feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignored this thread for a while, but popped in to see if there was anything new only to see FC Copa still being mentioned.

They have a -78 GD in 10 games this fall in my daughter's AG (first 3 matches were all 10+ to 0). I'm not sure why anything they say is worth much.

Does your daughter play for their USL team?

My daughter plays ECNL, but FC Copa is a known joke of a club on the girls side. I have no clue why someone keeps propping up anything they say.

Joke or no joke they're being honest about placing Aug birthdays on the correct grade in school team just like Matchfit.

The reason DC clubs arent being as clear is because theres only one month of birthdays that potentially could play down a grade (because schools start school early Sept). New Jersey, New York and some of the Midwest states start school late Sept and all the way to Nov. Because of this players playing down a grade is a much bigger issue for these clubs and something they can't just try to sweep under the rug with parents and players. They know that colleges wont recruit misaligned players playing down a grade. So to avoid the issue all together they say Aug birthdays play with their grade.

Clubs around here will do the same after they get tired of messing around with accomodating the play downs.

Sure, they’ll play with their grade, but may be on a lower team.

That is how things work. If you dont make the A team you play on the B team thats your grade in school. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Makes things much easier to manage from a club perspective.

They will go somewhere else and maybe play on an A team.

Sure but both the team and club will blow.

Keep thinking that. You'll be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignored this thread for a while, but popped in to see if there was anything new only to see FC Copa still being mentioned.

They have a -78 GD in 10 games this fall in my daughter's AG (first 3 matches were all 10+ to 0). I'm not sure why anything they say is worth much.

Does your daughter play for their USL team?

My daughter plays ECNL, but FC Copa is a known joke of a club on the girls side. I have no clue why someone keeps propping up anything they say.

Joke or no joke they're being honest about placing Aug birthdays on the correct grade in school team just like Matchfit.

The reason DC clubs arent being as clear is because theres only one month of birthdays that potentially could play down a grade (because schools start school early Sept). New Jersey, New York and some of the Midwest states start school late Sept and all the way to Nov. Because of this players playing down a grade is a much bigger issue for these clubs and something they can't just try to sweep under the rug with parents and players. They know that colleges wont recruit misaligned players playing down a grade. So to avoid the issue all together they say Aug birthdays play with their grade.

Clubs around here will do the same after they get tired of messing around with accomodating the play downs.

Sure, they’ll play with their grade, but may be on a lower team.

That is how things work. If you dont make the A team you play on the B team thats your grade in school. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Makes things much easier to manage from a club perspective.

Is that what happens when you force kids to play outside their age group and compete with kids 13 months older?

[Anonymous]

What's the point of the club making a team based on school grade when the league goes by birth date?

To appease neurotic parents who aren't serious about soccer?

Because the "league" told everyone to play kids by school grade. Did anyone actually read the guidance on the age group change? What's your agenda on pushing kids down a grade - does it somehow benefit your kid? There is no circumstance where a kid playing a grade below is positive for player development or for recruiting (not to mention longevity in the sport). The only benefit for that might be for a kid who is smaller and needs the time to develop. By high school, any player playing down is wasting their time, and no recruiter is interested in a kid that can't even handle playing with their grade. Clubs know this even if dumb parents don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What's the point of the club making a team based on school grade when the league goes by birth date?

To appease neurotic parents who aren't serious about soccer?

Because the "league" told everyone to play kids by school grade. Did anyone actually read the guidance on the age group change? What's your agenda on pushing kids down a grade - does it somehow benefit your kid? There is no circumstance where a kid playing a grade below is positive for player development or for recruiting (not to mention longevity in the sport). The only benefit for that might be for a kid who is smaller and needs the time to develop. By high school, any player playing down is wasting their time, and no recruiter is interested in a kid that can't even handle playing with their grade. Clubs know this even if dumb parents don't get it.

Every league announcement said it wouldn't be perfect. Deal with it. There's no playing down unless it's biobanding. Not everyone cares about playing with their grade.

Fewer recruiters OR families are interested in B OR C teams. They get less experienced coaches and less support from there clubs. So, kids forced there will likely quit earlier. Being the youngest means that's more likely. This is why you give more choice and flexibility for parents and clubs.

So dumb just to think there's one path and to create loopholes for playing up.

[Anonymous]

Every league announcement said it wouldn't be perfect. Deal with it. There's no playing down unless it's biobanding. Not everyone cares about playing with their grade.

Fewer recruiters OR families are interested in B OR C teams. They get less experienced coaches and less support from there clubs. So, kids forced there will likely quit earlier. Being the youngest means that's more likely. This is why you give more choice and flexibility for parents and clubs.

So dumb just to think there's one path and to create loopholes for playing up.

In all of my years playing soccer and having kids who play soccer, I've never once met a kid who is interested in playing with a younger grade. I've certainly met plenty of kids who are interested in playing with a higher grade. What you are saying is nonsense and sounds ridiculous - just so you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignored this thread for a while, but popped in to see if there was anything new only to see FC Copa still being mentioned.

They have a -78 GD in 10 games this fall in my daughter's AG (first 3 matches were all 10+ to 0). I'm not sure why anything they say is worth much.

Does your daughter play for their USL team?

My daughter plays ECNL, but FC Copa is a known joke of a club on the girls side. I have no clue why someone keeps propping up anything they say.

Joke or no joke they're being honest about placing Aug birthdays on the correct grade in school team just like Matchfit.

The reason DC clubs arent being as clear is because theres only one month of birthdays that potentially could play down a grade (because schools start school early Sept). New Jersey, New York and some of the Midwest states start school late Sept and all the way to Nov. Because of this players playing down a grade is a much bigger issue for these clubs and something they can't just try to sweep under the rug with parents and players. They know that colleges wont recruit misaligned players playing down a grade. So to avoid the issue all together they say Aug birthdays play with their grade.

Clubs around here will do the same after they get tired of messing around with accomodating the play downs.

Sure, they’ll play with their grade, but may be on a lower team.

That is how things work. If you dont make the A team you play on the B team thats your grade in school. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Makes things much easier to manage from a club perspective.

They will go somewhere else and maybe play on an A team.

Sure but both the team and club will blow.

So far it's been the opposite as the best teams want kids playing on age (with a few top players allowed to play up) but a few are allowing kids to play up for grade with secondary teams. Then a couple of lesser teams that are trying to match their house rec leagues and go grade but it's been pretty rare.

Thank you Mr Future for your exciting feedback on what is happening 6 months from now.

What are you going to do this fall when top team players are all one graduating year?

FYI, you are the only person trying to create a future that doesn't mess with what is happening. The key is you have to write will and if a bunch of times to create your grade year rules that don't exist. Everyone else is telling you the truth, the now truth, the rules for Fall 2026.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What's the point of the club making a team based on school grade when the league goes by birth date?

To appease neurotic parents who aren't serious about soccer?

Because the "league" told everyone to play kids by school grade. Did anyone actually read the guidance on the age group change? What's your agenda on pushing kids down a grade - does it somehow benefit your kid? There is no circumstance where a kid playing a grade below is positive for player development or for recruiting (not to mention longevity in the sport). The only benefit for that might be for a kid who is smaller and needs the time to develop. By high school, any player playing down is wasting their time, and no recruiter is interested in a kid that can't even handle playing with their grade. Clubs know this even if dumb parents don't get it.

That's a big lashing out after the table is already set for next year.

No league said to play by grade. ECNL and NCSL said the opposite. Almost always best to be youngest in age group, RAE. College said they recruit players and don't care what team or age group you are on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Every league announcement said it wouldn't be perfect. Deal with it. There's no playing down unless it's biobanding. Not everyone cares about playing with their grade.

Fewer recruiters OR families are interested in B OR C teams. They get less experienced coaches and less support from there clubs. So, kids forced there will likely quit earlier. Being the youngest means that's more likely. This is why you give more choice and flexibility for parents and clubs.

So dumb just to think there's one path and to create loopholes for playing up.

In all of my years playing soccer and having kids who play soccer, I've never once met a kid who is interested in playing with a younger grade. I've certainly met plenty of kids who are interested in playing with a higher grade. What you are saying is nonsense and sounds ridiculous - just so you know.

Not when you have a kid who is pursing being on the best team possible and now faces a choice between a team that plays at national showcases vs. local ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Every league announcement said it wouldn't be perfect. Deal with it. There's no playing down unless it's biobanding. Not everyone cares about playing with their grade.

Fewer recruiters OR families are interested in B OR C teams. They get less experienced coaches and less support from there clubs. So, kids forced there will likely quit earlier. Being the youngest means that's more likely. This is why you give more choice and flexibility for parents and clubs.

So dumb just to think there's one path and to create loopholes for playing up.

In all of my years playing soccer and having kids who play soccer, I've never once met a kid who is interested in playing with a younger grade. I've certainly met plenty of kids who are interested in playing with a higher grade. What you are saying is nonsense and sounds ridiculous - just so you know.

I never met a kid who only wanted to play with their calendar year but that was a thing. Kids don't set the rules.

Youth soccer, sans MLSN1, has a 12 month age group starting 8/1, they didn't want to force grade year like you do. Done deal.

[Anonymous]

That's a big lashing out after the table is already set for next year.

No league said to play by grade. ECNL and NCSL said the opposite. Almost always best to be youngest in age group, RAE. College said they recruit players and don't care what team or age group you are on.

Here is the guidance on the age group change from US Club, USYS and AYSO - specifically noting that the goal here is for kids to play by school grade whenever possible. I really don't know how much clearer it can be said without there being consequences for clubs that specifically hold kids down from playing on grade level. People really love to twist around the rationale here. If a kid is relying on being the best/biggest in their age group by avoiding playing up because of the Aug 1 cut-off, there won't be a single recruiter that will be impressed by that.

Why is the age group cut-off changing from January 1 (birth year ages)?

There are multiple reasons for this change. First, the Aug. 1 age group cut-off most effectively reduces the number of “trapped players” in youth soccer and reduces negative impacts on these players at multiple stages of their career. “Trapped” players are those who, due to soccer age group cut-offs, are in an older soccer age group than their school year. Trapped players have significantly reduced competition opportunities and disrupted training experiences in 8th grade (when most of their team is in high school) and are similarly negatively impacted four years later when players from the older soccer age group, but who are still in high school, are moved down into the same soccer age group. Second, an Aug. 1 age group cut-off best aligns soccer age groups with school year ages, maximizing the number of players who participate in soccer programs with their school-year friends. This alignment has a positive correlation with increased numbers of youth players entering and staying in the sport.


Why is Aug. 1 a better age group cut-off than Sept. 1?

Initially, US Club Soccer, US Youth Soccer and AYSO had determined to use a Sept. 1 age group cut-off instead of Aug. 1. After receiving significant feedback and identifying missing information in Department of Education school year cut-off lists, it has been determined that the Aug. 1 cut-off best reduces misalignment between age and school year. The Aug. 1 cut-off reduces not only the trapped player effect, but it also reduces the number of “force-ups,” a term referring to players in a younger soccer age group but older school year who must play up an age group in order to be with their school-year friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That's a big lashing out after the table is already set for next year.

No league said to play by grade. ECNL and NCSL said the opposite. Almost always best to be youngest in age group, RAE. College said they recruit players and don't care what team or age group you are on.

Here is the guidance on the age group change from US Club, USYS and AYSO - specifically noting that the goal here is for kids to play by school grade whenever possible. I really don't know how much clearer it can be said without there being consequences for clubs that specifically hold kids down from playing on grade level. People really love to twist around the rationale here. If a kid is relying on being the best/biggest in their age group by avoiding playing up because of the Aug 1 cut-off, there won't be a single recruiter that will be impressed by that.

Why is the age group cut-off changing from January 1 (birth year ages)?

There are multiple reasons for this change. First, the Aug. 1 age group cut-off most effectively reduces the number of “trapped players” in youth soccer and reduces negative impacts on these players at multiple stages of their career. “Trapped” players are those who, due to soccer age group cut-offs, are in an older soccer age group than their school year. Trapped players have significantly reduced competition opportunities and disrupted training experiences in 8th grade (when most of their team is in high school) and are similarly negatively impacted four years later when players from the older soccer age group, but who are still in high school, are moved down into the same soccer age group. Second, an Aug. 1 age group cut-off best aligns soccer age groups with school year ages, maximizing the number of players who participate in soccer programs with their school-year friends. This alignment has a positive correlation with increased numbers of youth players entering and staying in the sport.


Why is Aug. 1 a better age group cut-off than Sept. 1?

Initially, US Club Soccer, US Youth Soccer and AYSO had determined to use a Sept. 1 age group cut-off instead of Aug. 1. After receiving significant feedback and identifying missing information in Department of Education school year cut-off lists, it has been determined that the Aug. 1 cut-off best reduces misalignment between age and school year. The Aug. 1 cut-off reduces not only the trapped player effect, but it also reduces the number of “force-ups,” a term referring to players in a younger soccer age group but older school year who must play up an age group in order to be with their school-year friends.

We're not twisting anything. We're just sharing what a lot of clubs are doing ... Like this ECNL one ...

This club -- Sporting Blue Valley which offers MLSN and ECNL in Kansas. From page 15 of their presentation:

"School Grade is Irrelevant: It is much easier to consider the new age-group
placement as relative to the August 1st cutoff and is not tied to their school grade
level (whether they have been held back or are ahead)."

Page 19

"Can players play up a grade level?
SURVEY - Playing Up
SBV will retain the same policy we’ve always had: A player may play up an age
group only if they make the top team in that older division.
❖ Exceptions: Exceptions are rare and reserved for specific Goalkeeper situations
or to combine two small player pools to form a viable team.
Why we aren't delaying the changes:
❖ We have chosen to "rip the Band-Aid off" rather than kick the can down the road.
❖ While we could artificially keep current teams together by moving everyone to
an older age group, we would eventually be forced to fix it.
❖ We believe it is better to realign correctly now. This avoids years of confusion
and temporary fixes, ensuring every player is on the correct long-term
development path immediately"

https://storage.googleapis.com/msgsndr/YNEbnN...173966b1e3b3b9c2.pdf

[Anonymous]

And more locally ...

Q: Can players play up an age group?

A: Playing up is a coaching and technical decision based primarily on the player’s skill level, soccer maturity, and overall development needs. While Arlington Soccer allows flexibility in certain cases, playing up is the exception rather than the rule. Each situation is carefully evaluated by the technical staff to ensure it is in the best interest of both the individual player and the team.

Q: Can a player born between August 1 and September 30 play up if they are in the higher school grade?

A: School grade may be considered as part of the evaluation, but the decision to allow a player to play up is ultimately based on technical criteria including the player’s skill, maturity, and readiness for the older age group. Grade alone does not guarantee that a player will play up.

https://arlingtonsoccer.com/programs/travel/age-group-transition

[Anonymous]

"A: School grade may be considered as part of the evaluation, but the decision to allow a player to play up is ultimately based on technical criteria including the player’s skill, maturity, and readiness for the older age group. Grade alone does not guarantee that a player will play up."

This is boilerplate CYA language for when kids get pushed to a B team or C team because they aren't as good as the kids coming down. It's fine and to be expected. The language to focus on is "school grade may be considered".