My GBRS Nightmare and a bit of advice!

[Anonymous]

Posted before, but comes up each year! Good luck to everyone.

I have three, the youngest is in 6th grade. The next is in MS and the oldest is in HS now. I read about people wondering to appeal or not and wondering about GBRS scores. My advice is to advocate for your child if you think AAP is the right thing for them. GBRS can be total nonsense and relying on it without question may make no sense. Here are the short stories for all three of mine and why I think GBRS is nonsense:

Child 1 - In pool via ALL test scores. Truly an exceptionally smart kid. Had to appeal because he had a GBRS of 9. In on appeal after a 140+ WISC. Blossoming in AAP.
Child 2 - In pool via ALL test scores (though lower than his brother). Bright kid, but would do fine in either GE or APP. In first round, GBRS 9. Doing fine in AAP.
Child 3 - Not in pool via test scores. Amazingly average kid. Teacher begged us to refer. In first round, GBRS 16. Doing just fine in GE.

The short answer is to do the right thing for your child. Don't rely on the system, it works most of the time, but is a long way from perfect. I am sure that GBRS can be applied by some teachers fairly and meaningfully, but not all. For Child #1 above, when we asked the teacher about the low GBRS, she said the she was looking for gifted behaviors such as "being able to do 3 and 4 digit addition when I am teaching 2 digit addition". I asked if she knew that Child 1 could MULTIPLY two digit numbers in his head and give her the answer. She said, "Oh yes, he is faster than I am, but that isn't the gifted behavior that they told me to look for".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Posted before, but comes up each year! Good luck to everyone.

I have three, the youngest is in 6th grade. The next is in MS and the oldest is in HS now. I read about people wondering to appeal or not and wondering about GBRS scores. My advice is to advocate for your child if you think AAP is the right thing for them. GBRS can be total nonsense and relying on it without question may make no sense. Here are the short stories for all three of mine and why I think GBRS is nonsense:

Child 1 - In pool via ALL test scores. Truly an exceptionally smart kid. Had to appeal because he had a GBRS of 9. In on appeal after a 140+ WISC. Blossoming in AAP.
Child 2 - In pool via ALL test scores (though lower than his brother). Bright kid, but would do fine in either GE or APP. In first round, GBRS 9. Doing fine in AAP.
Child 3 - Not in pool via test scores. Amazingly average kid. Teacher begged us to refer. In first round, GBRS 16. Doing just fine in GE.

The short answer is to do the right thing for your child. Don't rely on the system, it works most of the time, but is a long way from perfect. I am sure that GBRS can be applied by some teachers fairly and meaningfully, but not all. For Child #1 above, when we asked the teacher about the low GBRS, she said the she was looking for gifted behaviors such as "being able to do 3 and 4 digit addition when I am teaching 2 digit addition". I asked if she knew that Child 1 could MULTIPLY two digit numbers in his head and give her the answer. She said, "Oh yes, he is faster than I am, but that isn't the gifted behavior that they told me to look for".

Thanks for sharing your story. Child 1's teacher's reply sounds really absurd!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Posted before, but comes up each year! Good luck to everyone.

I have three, the youngest is in 6th grade. The next is in MS and the oldest is in HS now. I read about people wondering to appeal or not and wondering about GBRS scores. My advice is to advocate for your child if you think AAP is the right thing for them. GBRS can be total nonsense and relying on it without question may make no sense. Here are the short stories for all three of mine and why I think GBRS is nonsense:

Child 1 - In pool via ALL test scores. Truly an exceptionally smart kid. Had to appeal because he had a GBRS of 9. In on appeal after a 140+ WISC. Blossoming in AAP.
Child 2 - In pool via ALL test scores (though lower than his brother). Bright kid, but would do fine in either GE or APP. In first round, GBRS 9. Doing fine in AAP.
Child 3 - Not in pool via test scores. Amazingly average kid. Teacher begged us to refer. In first round, GBRS 16. Doing just fine in GE.

The short answer is to do the right thing for your child. Don't rely on the system, it works most of the time, but is a long way from perfect. I am sure that GBRS can be applied by some teachers fairly and meaningfully, but not all. For Child #1 above, when we asked the teacher about the low GBRS, she said the she was looking for gifted behaviors such as "being able to do 3 and 4 digit addition when I am teaching 2 digit addition". I asked if she knew that Child 1 could MULTIPLY two digit numbers in his head and give her the answer. She said, "Oh yes, he is faster than I am, but that isn't the gifted behavior that they told me to look for".

So Child 3 got in, but you elected to stay with Gen Ed?

[Anonymous]

Yes. #3 is in Gen Ed. It was the right answer and where #3 belonged. Everyone says that #1's teacher was way off. My point is the AT LEAST #1 AND #3 were way off. Personally, I think #2 was off too, but at least that one wasn't crazy. There is 0% chance that #1 should have a 9 GBRS. There is also 0% chance that #3 should have a 16!

[Anonymous]

Teacher "begged" you?

[Anonymous]

Yes, "begged" is the right term. She contacted us and it was a surprise. We knew that #3 is average. Amazing, but average! We told her so. She contacted us again about referring and we declined. She asked us for a conference which we attended and asked us in person. We said, OK and filled out the paperwork to see if we might have been wrong. We also took #3 for a WISC just to be sure we had evaluated correctly and the WISC was solid, but not APP level. #3 was accepted and we declined knowing our child better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, "begged" is the right term. She contacted us and it was a surprise. We knew that #3 is average. Amazing, but average! We told her so. She contacted us again about referring and we declined. She asked us for a conference which we attended and asked us in person. We said, OK and filled out the paperwork to see if we might have been wrong. We also took #3 for a WISC just to be sure we had evaluated correctly and the WISC was solid, but not APP level. #3 was accepted and we declined knowing our child better.

I take it all kids had different teachers? Did they all go to the same school? Just wondering if there was any consistency in evaluation, such as by the AART.

[Anonymous]

Three kids, three teachers, one school.

[Anonymous]

OP this has been my experience too with a way off GBRS and a ridiculous reason why. MY child is like your #1 except was not in pool in 2nd grade (NNAT and CogAT were both 130, how does that happen???) but ended up with a FSIQ of 141. GBRS was an 8. We got in on appeal. Child is in 5th grade AAP now and doing great. But when asked about the 8, I got something absurd and the work samples the school provided were poor. I couldn't get my child out of that school fast enough. I do think the teacher in my case was racist and that played a large role. I also think the AART was just clueless. She was part-time and only in the school randomly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, "begged" is the right term. She contacted us and it was a surprise. We knew that #3 is average. Amazing, but average! We told her so. She contacted us again about referring and we declined. She asked us for a conference which we attended and asked us in person. We said, OK and filled out the paperwork to see if we might have been wrong. We also took #3 for a WISC just to be sure we had evaluated correctly and the WISC was solid, but not APP level. #3 was accepted and we declined knowing our child better.

How does #3 feel about his placement? Does he ever voice any feelings about the siblings having gone through AAP while he is in Gen. Ed.?

[Anonymous]

AAP is filled with children just like your 3rd child. I'm sure he would have been perfectly fine there, as sad as that may sound.

I agree that the GBRS is ridiculous. But I also think it's unreasonable to expect parents to know that AAP is right for their children without providing very clear information on what the profile is for a typical AAP student and without providing adequate feedback from the schools. It just leads to a lot of parents with above average kids feeling convinced that their kids belong in AAP, while additionally leading to a lot of parents with kids who are strong students and just barely under the pool cutoff not understanding the system and not applying or appealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP is filled with children just like your 3rd child. I'm sure he would have been perfectly fine there, as sad as that may sound.

I agree that the GBRS is ridiculous. But I also think it's unreasonable to expect parents to know that AAP is right for their children without providing very clear information on what the profile is for a typical AAP student and without providing adequate feedback from the schools. It just leads to a lot of parents with above average kids feeling convinced that their kids belong in AAP, while additionally leading to a lot of parents with kids who are strong students and just barely under the pool cutoff not understanding the system and not applying or appealing.

Why is that sad?

AAP in its current form is not rocket science. All kids at FCPS should have the option of AAP and I bet a lot more than are in AAP will do just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why is that sad?

AAP in its current form is not rocket science. All kids at FCPS should have the option of AAP and I bet a lot more than are in AAP will do just fine.

The bolded is precisely why it's sad. OP's first two children need the advanced instruction, whereas the third child is having his needs met just fine in gen ed. OP clearly recognizes that her first two children have different learning needs than her third, and that inclusion of her average child in an AAP classroom would either overwhelm that child or slow the teaching down for everyone else in the AAP classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, "begged" is the right term. She contacted us and it was a surprise. We knew that #3 is average. Amazing, but average! We told her so. She contacted us again about referring and we declined. She asked us for a conference which we attended and asked us in person. We said, OK and filled out the paperwork to see if we might have been wrong. We also took #3 for a WISC just to be sure we had evaluated correctly and the WISC was solid, but not APP level. #3 was accepted and we declined knowing our child better.

How does #3 feel about his placement? Does he ever voice any feelings about the siblings having gone through AAP while he is in Gen. Ed.?

#3 is fine. In our house, school is school. AAP or Gen Ed doesn't much matter and isn't really discussed. "Did you do your homework?" or is your room picked up and chores done are more common discussion topics. We do talk about how everyone is special. Some are a bit smarter, some are better athletes, some are more creative, etc.

[Anonymous]

What was #3s WISC? Just curious?