Everyday Math (Again)

[Anonymous]

I apologize for bringing up a topic that some may think has been beaten to death on this forum, and is certainly well-covered in the archives. But with a K student, I'm new to all of this, and would appreciate hearing what may be some new opinions.

I'm a typical private school parent: researched the schools (so I thought) and are enrolled in one that we think is a good fit for DC. But I have read enough on DCUM to know that there are many concerns out there about the Everyday Math program, which this school uses. To be honest, I've only recently learned that this is the program used there. Why didn't I specifically ask about it before? Who knows.... I guess I fell into the trap of thinking that it's such a good school, they must know what they are doing. But I have to say that even with what little I have seen so far -- which includes an outline of the curriculum for the year -- it all seems rather simplistic.

Can anyone with more knowledge/ experience on this topic provide a little more guidance? What, exactly, should I be looking for in my K child as far as mathematical development? How do I know that he is getting what he needs as far as the basics in math that will take him through algebra, geometry, etc? What is meant by the term "spiral curriculum" (or something like that... I can't remember the exact phrase the teacher used.)

I am an English major and writer so I am more comfortable evaluating language arts programs.... judging the merits of a math program feels very foreign to me! TIA.

[Anonymous]

OP - I think we all went through what you experienced. It's only when you really get into the particulars at school and hear discussions that you become educated about schools. Especially true if this is your first child.

As for the spiral curriculum, EDM covers a subject and then leaves it for another. They then later return to that same subject. The thought was originally that multiple returns were supposed to reinforce concepts, but studies show that it doesn't.

My concern has not really been with the early years of school but later on. Especially in the 4th and 5th grades. We found that the later in the program, the less our child was getting and that the school's program fell short just after 6th grade when EDM ends. There was a gap of knowledge that we had to make up over the summer as we changed schools.

From my experience, I think a school that incorporates a number of strategies into its math program works better. They can have EDM but if they also add other elements, it can work.

Schools are gradually getting rid of EDM. I would find out if it's on the curriculum review for your school. That will tell you lots.

[Anonymous]

OP, if you check Wikipedia for "Everyday Math" or "Reform Math," and then start reading and following the links, that will help educate you about the concept.

FWIW, I recently talked about EDM and reform math with an aunt who has taught math for something like 35-40 years now. Her view was that both approaches (traditional and reform) can work well, and the effectiveness depends largely on how adept the teacher is with the particular approach, and how particular students are at learning. A teacher who understands a reform math approach can teach it well, but a traditionalist teacher who is being forced into a reform approach probably will not do a good job. Many reform math programs can offer great benefit because they encourage students to try various approaches, so each student can learn the "best" way for herself to solve a problem, but some students like the rote approach of traditional math. One of my aunt's key views was that lots of the furor over reform math is fueled by parents who were raised on traditional math, and cannot understand the reform approaches their children are taking to solve math problems. She said the children don't seem nearly as concerned about it in her own experience.

Good luck on your research. If you find good sources, please post them.

[Anonymous]

agree with pp's. But some say that EDM requires well trained teachers. The chances that your child will have well trained teachers all the way through 6th grade are slim. There are other curricula that are designed with the possible poor teacher in mind, which is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

re chances of well-trained teachers throughout being slim. Not true in a private where there are math specialists. There seems to be a lot of support and interaction among this group across school line -- they meet, talk about what works and what doesn't, take positions on curriculum, etc.

Sidwell has a couple of useful pieces re EDM/Investigations. Here are the links. The first is sort of an editorial/explanation of why they use these programs; the second is an FAQ:

http://www.sidwell.edu/news/detail.aspx?linkid=8567&moduleid=427

http://classic.sidwell.edu/LS_Math_Adventures/parentquestions.htm

Short version is, at this stage, play games, cook, when you're at the grocery store, compare prices, etc. Practice math IRL. If your DC likes flashcards or computer games or workbooks (some do!), go for it. Which is what you would/should do no matter what math curriculum is in use!

[Anonymous]

There's a great book on early math which was helpful to me in thinking about what kids could do at this age:

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Kids-Powerful-Problem-Solvers-Kindergarten/dp/0325004315

And one of the chapters is available for free online: http://www.heinemann.com/shared/onlineresources/E00431/chapter9.pdf

[Anonymous]

OP, just keep in mind that EDM has a sales pitch that is almost scripted, to give the schools to deal with parent inquiry. The bottom line is that they (EDM) really did not expect this level of scrutiny. Also, I can bet that all of the schools that are using it wish that they had not adopted it. Kids that do standard math can solve problems in the grocery store too, you don't need EDM to help with that.

[Anonymous]

Many families bypass EDM with supplementation. A lot of these weekend schools, like the Russian, Chinese, Korean schools that are held on weekends have little non EDM type math classes. Some parents do work on their own, or use Kumon. The point is that EDM will take credit for the extra effort and say "things aren't that bad".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, just keep in mind that EDM has a sales pitch that is almost scripted, to give the schools to deal with parent inquiry. The bottom line is that they (EDM) really did not expect this level of scrutiny. Also, I can bet that all of the schools that are using it wish that they had not adopted it. Kids that do standard math can solve problems in the grocery store too, you don't need EDM to help with that.

That is so much BS. Everyday Math was funded by the National Science Foundation and developed at University of Chicago. In other words, it came out of an academic context in which scrutiny is the norm -- not a surprise. The people who designed this curriculum have a theory about what they're doing and why and they've explained it. And local privates like Sidwell and GDS (which, unlike some public school systems, are free to abandon curricula that don't serve their needs) who use EDM or Investigations continually evaluate those programs and are happy with the results including things like standardized test scores.

I'm not an EDM partisan (just open-minded), but I'm really tired of this kind of (non-)argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many families bypass EDM with supplementation. A lot of these weekend schools, like the Russian, Chinese, Korean schools that are held on weekends have little non EDM type math classes. Some parents do work on their own, or use Kumon. The point is that EDM will take credit for the extra effort and say "things aren't that bad".

Any evidence that kids whose schools use EDM (vs. kids with a more traditional math program) disproportionately go to Kumon or weekend schools? Regardless of curriculum, some families supplement. I grew up with flashcards, math games, workbooks, logic puzzles, etc. And that was pre-home computers. Supplementation isn't a sign that something is going wrong (e.g. a curriculum is failing) -- it's a sign that something is going right (e.g. families support their kids' education, schools use a variety of approaches because kids have different learning styles and/or each text has different strengths).

[Anonymous]

My child is in a school that uses EDM. I was skeptical at first, especially after reading the many DCUM threads about it. But after 3 years, my DC is doing really well at math, enjoys it, and understands things in a way I never did during school ... and I loved math. Those who argue he would be doing even better using something else are saying something that cannot really be proved. So I would say that EDM may not work for all children and you as a parent should of course keep an eye on how your child is doing in all subjects. But EDM is not necessarily disastrous ... so far, I am very pleased. Still watchful, but pleased.

[Anonymous]

I was highly skeptical at first, too. My child ended up loving it, and is now in middle school at a DC independent in the highest math track. We did Kumon for a stretch.

[Anonymous]

I would surmise from the gist of the comments that those who like EDM are those that have supplemented their child's school curriculum with traditional exercises (e.g., Kumon, workbooks, EPGY, Sylvan, Score, Saxon, Singapore) and weekend math schools and tutoring. Those that have found EDM a disaster have done significantly less supplementation with their children in Math outside of school. Would Math supplementation using the traditional mode be sufficient?

[Anonymous]

OP again. Thanks to all for these very helpful, intelligent responses. I think the fact that so many comments were posted this late at night/ early in the morning indicates that the use of EDM in local independent schools is still a hot topic with many of us. And again, I apologize for rehashing a lot of this but as one PP noted, when it is one's first child going through the system, there is so much that we parents don't yet understand.

My problem is that I still don't feel competent evaluating the success of EDM, even in my own child. Just because the curriculum says that he should be proficient in X, Y and Z by the end of K year... is that really enough? As stated in my earlier post, my concern is that, if anything, it is a bit simplistic and things that he can already do, or will pick up very easily. One of the objectives is "counting to 100 by 2's, 5's and 10's," for example. He, and many of his friends, were doing that last year. I realize that these kids are only 5 years old so this isn't as big of a concern to me now as it will be in a few years. If he's going to have EDM through 6th grade, how can we be sure that he isn't falling behind when the subject matter is supposed to get tougher in the later elementary grades?

And I'm interested in the remarks made about people having to supplement math work with tutors, etc. That is another concept that, at this point, I just don't get. I'm sure I'll learn more about it as he progresses, but at this point, all I can say is that with all the $$ we are paying to send him to this private school, if there is EVER any talk about additional paid instruction, simply because the school is using a program that is not up to par, I will be FURIOUS!

[Anonymous]

You would surmise incorrectly -- one poster mentioned using Kumon and no one has posted that they found EDM a disaster.