Return to Biglaw?

[Anonymous]

I left a V10 firm several years ago as a mid-level associate for a position at a smaller firm specialized in my subject area. I am now a (non-equity) partner at the smaller firm, and the V10 firm that I left is recruiting me to come back as a (non-equity) partner to build up the practice in which I specialize. I would be up for equity in two years at the V10. I would put the odds of making equity at 50-50, at best. At my current firm, I have been told (FWIW) that it is a matter of when, not if, I will make equity.

My current firm is full of genuinely nice people who, for the most part, are not workaholics but enjoy what they do. They are very good lawyers, but are not at the same level of sophistication and skill as my former colleagues. The firm itself is not particularly well-managed. The V10 firm has some good eggs, but also has more than its fair share of ethically challenged, backstabbing sociopaths, and a business model that rewards workaholics and sharks. But, they are uniformly excellent lawyers working on the biggest, most sophisticated matters, with oodles of awesome associates to help them.

My current base is about $150k less than my base would be at the V10 firm, but in good years my bonus (combined with the fact that the firm pays my healthcare insurance premiums, which the V10 does not) makes the money a wash. Long-term, the money at the V10 would be much better, but that would depend on making equity, which is by no means a sure thing.

I have toddlers at home and a spouse with a flexible, low-hours job. My spouse wants me to be home more and wants more money (go figure).

The way I see it, the V10 firm would be less fun, more work, better quality, and more money. The current firm is less work, lesser quality, more fun, and less money. Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Does your spouse want the money more or the time more? Listen to that.

Your current life sounds pretty ideal to me as someone who also has a little kid

[Anonymous]

There is no freaking way I would give up more control over my life as an equity partner at a smaller firm for life as an equity partner at a larger firm. Even when you're equity you're still just a cog in the massive machine.

[Anonymous]

Can you do the same level of work at your current firm? Same clients, same sophistication? If so, I'd probably stay, at least for now. If you build up that practice, and become an equity partner, there's a good chance you'll have the opportunity to move in the future (if you want to).

As to the PP who said, "Does your spouse want the money more or the time more? Listen to that." - sure, consult with your spouse. But since s/he isn't the one who will have to put in the extra hours and deal with the ethically challenged, backstabbing sociopaths . . . workaholics and sharks," s/he doesn't get the final say in the matter.

[Anonymous]

This seems like a question of priorities and trade offs, which only you can answer. I also left Big Law for a small firm and I haven't looked back. I'm not sure there's anything my old firm could do to entice me to come back. Pay now is less, but so are my hours and it is very flexible. I have my own practice and clients, so have a lot of freedom to manage my own practice as I wish. I can't imagine heading back into the land of red tape, bureaucracy and ***holes.

If I were you, I'd be strongly inclined to figure out how I could make things at the current firm work. If you do the same things at the small firm that you'd need to do to have a realistic change at equity in the V10 firm, will that increase your small firm pay to some middle ground? Or will you only have those opportunities at the small firm? If you have your own clients, you have more stability and predictability where you are now, but you probably know that. Building up a practice at a V10 firm is a very iffy proposition. It might work, it might not and you don't know how long the firm will be willing to invest in it. Or they could they could bring in some big shot muckety-muck and throw a bunch of money at him in a way that leaves you on the outside.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the helpful feedback. The current firm is plaintiffs' side, so it will always be fundamentally different work (same cases, same subject area, but different side of the v). But, yes, I can focus on building a book and developing my own clients, but it will not be a book that I can port to the defense side down the road. Case in point: all of my current clients were referred to me by my former firm due to conflicts.

My spouse is not a lawyer and does not understand the biglaw demands and how different they are from the demands of my current firm. Yes, I work some nights/weekends, travel some, and occasionally have long trials, but I also generally have control over my schedule, work 9-6, and don't have to field demands from clients and fellow partners at all hours of the day and night.

I agree that it is a matter of my priorities, but I find myself having trouble sorting them out. On the one hand, more money now would mean retiring earlier. And, the exit options from the V10 are probably better. On the other hand, what's the point of money if you are spending all your time working on a cause you don't believe in? And, if I like where I am, then I shouldn't need exit options, right? I miss being part of a well-run organization and working with the best of the best. But, I am not sure I miss it enough to put up with everything that comes with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful feedback. The current firm is plaintiffs' side, so it will always be fundamentally different work (same cases, same subject area, but different side of the v). But, yes, I can focus on building a book and developing my own clients, but it will not be a book that I can port to the defense side down the road. Case in point: all of my current clients were referred to me by my former firm due to conflicts.

My spouse is not a lawyer and does not understand the biglaw demands and how different they are from the demands of my current firm. Yes, I work some nights/weekends, travel some, and occasionally have long trials, but I also generally have control over my schedule, work 9-6, and don't have to field demands from clients and fellow partners at all hours of the day and night.

I agree that it is a matter of my priorities, but I find myself having trouble sorting them out. On the one hand, more money now would mean retiring earlier. And, the exit options from the V10 are probably better. On the other hand, what's the point of money if you are spending all your time working on a cause you don't believe in? And, if I like where I am, then I shouldn't need exit options, right? I miss being part of a well-run organization and working with the best of the best. But, I am not sure I miss it enough to put up with everything that comes with it.

I wouldn't go back to big law. I'm currently exiting and am so happy that I'll never have to deal with these self-important, backstabbing, phony, lying assholes ever again.

Your kids are only going to get busier as they get older. Returning to biglaw means missing more and more activities. While the money is great now, being a constantly distracted, absentee parent who is not in control of my own time is not worth it to me in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Currently you have your own clients and work on your own matter, but at big firm, you won't have your own clients and will be more of a service partner? If so, that would be difficult for me - going from calling my own shots to having the relationship partner being my "boss".

[Anonymous]

I was at a v20 firm for about 7 or 8 years and left for a mid-level firm. I think the "sophistication and skill" of biglaw can be overstated. There are some truly impressive people there, but there are also lots of ordinarily smart people who are just workaholics. And the matters are the biggest and best, but they're often also boondoggles with waste and unnecessary make-work and artificial deadlines and perfection as the enemy of the good. Being among very good lawyers who have more perspective about the actual work, not just work/life balance stuff, is the #1 reason I'm happier where I am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no freaking way I would give up more control over my life as an equity partner at a smaller firm for life as an equity partner at a larger firm. Even when you're equity you're still just a cog in the massive machine.

+1

[JG2112]

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[Anonymous]

What happens at the V10 if you don't make equity? Will you be pushed out or could it be a long term position? If the latter, would that present a bit more quality of life? How would that money compare to the money as an equity partner at the other?

There are times non-equity at a big firm could be a good deal; still big (but not crazy) money for significant (but not crazy) hours. Or it can be the worst of all worlds - big hours, no control, and not huge money.

That supposes you could stay. If the firm would push you out out if you don't make equity, how sure are you that you could land on your feet? That factors into the risk reward determination.

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that your experience as a mid-level associate in big law is not the same as what you would experience coming in a as non-equity. Those later years on the track are horrendous. How many people are left from your summer class? I suspect the answer is 1 or 2 or so.

I suggest staying where you are; sounds like a great deal and platform. I would build from that and leave big law in your rear view along with their inflated billing rates. Big law is continually losing its grip on "sophistication."

[Anonymous]

STAY. If you are guaranteed equity at your current firm and are happy there, the additional money to return to your V10 firm would not be worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful feedback. The current firm is plaintiffs' side, so it will always be fundamentally different work (same cases, same subject area, but different side of the v). But, yes, I can focus on building a book and developing my own clients, but it will not be a book that I can port to the defense side down the road. Case in point: all of my current clients were referred to me by my former firm due to conflicts.

My spouse is not a lawyer and does not understand the biglaw demands and how different they are from the demands of my current firm. Yes, I work some nights/weekends, travel some, and occasionally have long trials, but I also generally have control over my schedule, work 9-6, and don't have to field demands from clients and fellow partners at all hours of the day and night.

I agree that it is a matter of my priorities, but I find myself having trouble sorting them out. On the one hand, more money now would mean retiring earlier. And, the exit options from the V10 are probably better. On the other hand, what's the point of money if you are spending all your time working on a cause you don't believe in? And, if I like where I am, then I shouldn't need exit options, right? I miss being part of a well-run organization and working with the best of the best. But, I am not sure I miss it enough to put up with everything that comes with it.

You will not retire early. More likely you will burnout and continue to work. How long have you been out of it and roughly how old(20’s, 30’s, 40’s)? Once you have been out of the grinder and been a valued partner it’s very hard to go back. You will know what you are missing.