Is there any point to doing a parent referral for a 2nd grader if a teacher hasn't encouraged it?

[Anonymous]

I have been going along assuming that if my child was a student who was on the border of getting into Level IV AAP then a teacher would have indicated that - either his primary second grade teacher or the specials teacher that also handles AAP stuff. But now I'm hearing from parents at our school that that isn't true and that teachers rarely encourage parent referrals, it's really up to the parent.

So how many kids in AAP get in through a parent referral instead of just the test scores? And if you are in that situation, were you encouraged to start the process by someone at your child's school?

I think leaving it up to the parents is odd. First of all it leaves out many kids whose parents aren't involved or knowledgable. Second, don't most parents think their child is bright and special? I know I do, but I also know that I don't really know how he measures up to his peers in school work. It feels conceited or entitled to push for something that he didn't qualify for through test scores (although we don't even know those yet which makes it even harder).

Should I reach out to his teacher or AAP coordinator to feel out whether it's worth our time and theirs to try the referral? Will they even tell me?

Both my husband and I were in our gifted programs as kids but it was based strictly on an IQ test and was a small pull out. This system here is hard to navigate.

[Anonymous]

I would guess that over half of the kids in AAP get in through parent referral. Teachers generally don't tell you to refer, even if they would assign a very high GBRS and think your child absolutely belongs in AAP. The AART will often call the parents of kids with CogAT composites above 120 and urge them to apply. That usually happens about 2-3 days before the application deadline, leaving you with very little time.

You can ask the AART for your child's K and 1st grade GBRS. That should at least give you some idea of whether your child is viewed as AAP material. I agree that the system is odd and seems to benefit the parents who had their sights on AAP from the time their kids were toddlers, rather than those who don't quite understand the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that over half of the kids in AAP get in through parent referral. Teachers generally don't tell you to refer, even if they would assign a very high GBRS and think your child absolutely belongs in AAP. The AART will often call the parents of kids with CogAT composites above 120 and urge them to apply. That usually happens about 2-3 days before the application deadline, leaving you with very little time.

You can ask the AART for your child's K and 1st grade GBRS. That should at least give you some idea of whether your child is viewed as AAP material. I agree that the system is odd and seems to benefit the parents who had their sights on AAP from the time their kids were toddlers, rather than those who don't quite understand the system.

I wouldn't. That math doesn't add up.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely do not expect that the school/principal/AART/teacher care one iota about your child going to AAP! In fact, it has been my experience that they actively discourage parents from applying and kids from going. They talk about how it will "break their spirit" and maybe your kid doesn't "have the executive functioning" skills needed.

Guess what -- if your kid is qualified then s/he will get in. My kid was in despite hearing teachers say "I never would have guessed that his scores would be high." "I never saw anything like (high scores) in class." Kid gets in and the AAP teacher says "I'm not saying this about every kid in my class, but your kid absolutely needs to be in AAP."

My first child -- I didn't know better. She was right on the cusp. I didn't push it b/c I figured if she belonged in AAP her scores would have been enough. Mistake! I should have referred her. I even reached out to the AART to ask what she thought and what kind of services my kid on the cusp would get at the reg. school. All I got was a non-answer.

You have to advocate for your own kid. If your kid's scores are lower (i.e. 110-120), well, don't expect your kid to be in AAP. But, if your kid is in the 120s, you are in a reasonable position to advocate for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that over half of the kids in AAP get in through parent referral. Teachers generally don't tell you to refer, even if they would assign a very high GBRS and think your child absolutely belongs in AAP. The AART will often call the parents of kids with CogAT composites above 120 and urge them to apply. That usually happens about 2-3 days before the application deadline, leaving you with very little time.

You can ask the AART for your child's K and 1st grade GBRS. That should at least give you some idea of whether your child is viewed as AAP material. I agree that the system is odd and seems to benefit the parents who had their sights on AAP from the time their kids were toddlers, rather than those who don't quite understand the system.

I wouldn't. That math doesn't add up.

How so? I couldn't find exact numbers for students in Level IV, but this link suggests 16.6% of 3-8th graders (scroll down to level IV services header) are in Level IV. 10% of FCPS students are in-pool. 2/3 of the in-pool kids are accepted into AAP, so 6.67% of FCPS 3-8th grade students are in-pool and in-AAP. The remaining ~10% of students in AAP would then have to be not in pool. Even if you expand the in-pool population to 13%, that still means only 8.67% are in-pool and in-AAP, leaving about 8% of the AAP kids not in pool, and making it about a 50-50 split between in-pool and parent referrals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You have to advocate for your own kid. If your kid's scores are lower (i.e. 110-120), well, don't expect your kid to be in AAP. But, if your kid is in the 120s, you are in a reasonable position to advocate for AAP.

WHat test is this score for and when would we see it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely do not expect that the school/principal/AART/teacher care one iota about your child going to AAP! In fact, it has been my experience that they actively discourage parents from applying and kids from going.

My kid was in the above grade level groups in both math and reading in 2nd grade, and had been receiving Level II for each of these subject since K. She had a K GBRS of 15 and a 1st grade GBRS of 16 (unknown to me until after the fact). I still didn't hear anything at all from the school or teacher urging referral to AAP, other than the generic statements to everyone at the info session that if you believe your child belongs in AAP, do a referral. Don't expect the school or teacher to hold your hand with this. For the most part, even if they think your child would be an excellent fit in AAP, they're not going to say anything to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You have to advocate for your own kid. If your kid's scores are lower (i.e. 110-120), well, don't expect your kid to be in AAP. But, if your kid is in the 120s, you are in a reasonable position to advocate for AAP.

WHat test is this score for and when would we see it?

CogAT. You might see it a few days to a week before the application deadline. You might not see it until after the deadline. If you don't apply and then receive high but not in-pool scores after the deadline (like 130), you're out of luck. Your child won't even be considered for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would guess that over half of the kids in AAP get in through parent referral. Teachers generally don't tell you to refer, even if they would assign a very high GBRS and think your child absolutely belongs in AAP. The AART will often call the parents of kids with CogAT composites above 120 and urge them to apply. That usually happens about 2-3 days before the application deadline, leaving you with very little time.

You can ask the AART for your child's K and 1st grade GBRS. That should at least give you some idea of whether your child is viewed as AAP material. I agree that the system is odd and seems to benefit the parents who had their sights on AAP from the time their kids were toddlers, rather than those who don't quite understand the system.

I wouldn't. That math doesn't add up.

How so? I couldn't find exact numbers for students in Level IV, but this link suggests 16.6% of 3-8th graders (scroll down to level IV services header) are in Level IV. 10% of FCPS students are in-pool. 2/3 of the in-pool kids are accepted into AAP, so 6.67% of FCPS 3-8th grade students are in-pool and in-AAP. The remaining ~10% of students in AAP would then have to be not in pool. Even if you expand the in-pool population to 13%, that still means only 8.67% are in-pool and in-AAP, leaving about 8% of the AAP kids not in pool, and making it about a 50-50 split between in-pool and parent referrals.

Link here:
https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/92UNAX5CE5A8/$file/AAP%20Expansion%20Plan%20Final_2_PPT.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely do not expect that the school/principal/AART/teacher care one iota about your child going to AAP! In fact, it has been my experience that they actively discourage parents from applying and kids from going.

My kid was in the above grade level groups in both math and reading in 2nd grade, and had been receiving Level II for each of these subject since K. She had a K GBRS of 15 and a 1st grade GBRS of 16 (unknown to me until after the fact). I still didn't hear anything at all from the school or teacher urging referral to AAP, other than the generic statements to everyone at the info session that if you believe your child belongs in AAP, do a referral. Don't expect the school or teacher to hold your hand with this. For the most part, even if they think your child would be an excellent fit in AAP, they're not going to say anything to you.

NP. DC is in 2nd, so we don't have the Cogat score yet. His principal did tell me that his NNAT score was very high, but even if she thinks he is an excellent fit in AAP, it's not her decision.

[Anonymous]

IMO, you have nothing to lose by submitting it. If the nnat or cogat score is close, you could do it.
No one cared to tell me how my kid was doing other than "fine" though he did test in to the pool on cogat (and he is in AAP). He probably wouldn't have gotten in if not in pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You have to advocate for your own kid. If your kid's scores are lower (i.e. 110-120), well, don't expect your kid to be in AAP. But, if your kid is in the 120s, you are in a reasonable position to advocate for AAP.

WHat test is this score for and when would we see it?

NNAT and cogAt. You should have NNAT from last year.

[Anonymous]

Listen, in this world when testing is the end all be all, why would a school encourage potential high pass or pass students elsewhere?

That's why there isn't a huge push for AAP services. It's up to the parents to actually push for boderline cases if they think it's a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Listen, in this world when testing is the end all be all, why would a school encourage potential high pass or pass students elsewhere?

That's why there isn't a huge push for AAP services. It's up to the parents to actually push for boderline cases if they think it's a good fit.

We are at a center school and feel the same way. We went to one of those AAP meetings and the administrator elaborated how unimportant they believe AAP is at this age and it's basically all same when they get older. We're shocked!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been going along assuming that if my child was a student who was on the border of getting into Level IV AAP then a teacher would have indicated that - either his primary second grade teacher or the specials teacher that also handles AAP stuff. But now I'm hearing from parents at our school that that isn't true and that teachers rarely encourage parent referrals, it's really up to the parent.

So how many kids in AAP get in through a parent referral instead of just the test scores? And if you are in that situation, were you encouraged to start the process by someone at your child's school?

I think leaving it up to the parents is odd. First of all it leaves out many kids whose parents aren't involved or knowledgable. Second, don't most parents think their child is bright and special? I know I do, but I also know that I don't really know how he measures up to his peers in school work. It feels conceited or entitled to push for something that he didn't qualify for through test scores (although we don't even know those yet which makes it even harder).

Should I reach out to his teacher or AAP coordinator to feel out whether it's worth our time and theirs to try the referral? Will they even tell me?

Both my husband and I were in our gifted programs as kids but it was based strictly on an IQ test and was a small pull out. This system here is hard to navigate.

Always refer. It indicates to the teachers the kid has interested and involved parents who would likely appeal anyways. Don't leave it to chance. AAP is not that different from Gen ED except that the teachers are better and the level of education is harder. You can always go back to Gen ED but not the other way around.