Initial boundary options for Woodward study area are up

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think that people greatly underestimate what a "long bus ride" means. It's not just 30 minutes (or 20 or 45) in the morning and 30 minutes after school. That might be a reasonable tradeoff if the educational environment were wildly improved. But that bus ride also means not going to school when you miss the bus or it doesn't show up. It means a lot of constraints around after school sports/extra curriculars. There is no late bus. How is your 9th grader getting home after practice at 5pm? Or getting back to school for rehearsal at 6pm? Or home again at 9pm? Because on public transportation, that's not a 30 minute ride - it's maybe an hour?

As a parent with kids in a neighborhood school and one in a school we need to commute to - the difference is not trivial. If families don't have a parent sitting around waiting for the next dropoff/pickup, the logistics are crazy making and sometimes just not workable.

This isn't about rich/poor. This is about really understanding the tradeoffs. Long commutes make it really difficult for students to engage in anything other than classtime. That's a huge negative.


It can be 45-60 minutes to our local school 8 minutes away due to the route and stops so it would be much longer than that. These kids will not be welcomed.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:MCPS and Flo Analytics should be ashamed of themselves for releasing Option 3 if there is actually no intention of using that map.


I do not think there is any intention of using any of these maps

I think these initial options are kind of a waste of time, but I don't think there was malicious intent. Just plain old incompetence.


The stated intention is to “refine” these options, so they very much are meant to represent possibilities.

MCPS and Flo Analytics should be ashamed of their incompetence, then. If it is just that.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:I’ve read all 43 pages of this thread and am pretty disheartened. I have not seen one comment in favor of the more disruptive (to the current status quo) options say a single thing about the prospective quality of education improvement that the potential new Whitman and BCC students would receive. Instead, it’s all about sending Whitman and BCC bus loads of poor kids to somehow stick it to them? If those poor kids have to spend 45 minutes on a bus to (somehow?) upset the rich kids, great!

The kids being bussed from poor communities? Those are kids, not props in your vendetta fantasies. The rich kids you’re sticking it to? Also, just kids. The “foolish” communities that want to stay together? Communities of people (that just want to stay together).

Let’s make every school better and every kid’s life better. Let’s not use them as props against each other.


As a poor family. I sorry you don’t want our kids. Actually some of us aren’t that poor, we make different life choices. The best solution would be to open up another hs lower dcc.


Want to give you a big hug. Your kids are wanted. All kids are wanted. To be fair, from what I have read, I think everyone here welcomes diversity of income, culture and race. The problem is that no one of any income level wants to be bused away from their neighborhoods and rightfully so. Every school needs to be stronger and some underperforming schools need more money, support and staff. Whatever it takes, they should get it.


We are wanted as long as we are not in your schools or competition for your kids. No one wants their kids bussed but maybe this will give those kids opportunities they don’t have to get ahead. Our kids don’t have the same opportunities.


Unfortunately it’s a zero sum game and we don’t get do overs with our kids’ education. I’d support funding more opportunities for your kids through modestly higher property taxes but not at the expense of my own kids’ opportunities or busing them across town. Everyone wants the best opportunities for their children (which is why most of us moved to the best place we could afford) and are looking to preserve that as much as possible in an increasingly uncertain world.


Wow we are all on the same team PP. it’s not a zero sum game.


Are we? There's only one (or few) valedictorians and there's an implicit quota in how many kids from each school matriculate to a particular university. We're not in this together and that's been apparent since I set foot in this county or on DCUM and seen others asking questions about the "preferred preschool to get into the Ivy League" or "my DD has the following stats but they don't have a hook and therefore, didn't get into [insert highly selective university]", especially as our kids get closer and closer to high school. We're more like participants running the gauntlet in The Hunger Games where "may the odds ever be in your favor". This is the meritocracy that we find ourselves in and the system that each of us has to face (or ignore). So forgive me if I don't want my kids being bussed across town to a different school and not the neighborhood school I've already paid a high cost entry fee to get into.


The reality is that your kid would be more likely to get into an Ivy from one of the lower performing schools. You compete against the kids at your own high school. (I have kids in college and MCPS so I’ve seen this first hand.)

If your kid is not legacy, recruited athlete or head of very important organization at the HS, or you don’t have a building named after you at the Ivy, you’re kid isn’t getting in. Hello WashU and Northeastern!


Very true and why we avoided the w schools.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think that people greatly underestimate what a "long bus ride" means. It's not just 30 minutes (or 20 or 45) in the morning and 30 minutes after school. That might be a reasonable tradeoff if the educational environment were wildly improved. But that bus ride also means not going to school when you miss the bus or it doesn't show up. It means a lot of constraints around after school sports/extra curriculars. There is no late bus. How is your 9th grader getting home after practice at 5pm? Or getting back to school for rehearsal at 6pm? Or home again at 9pm? Because on public transportation, that's not a 30 minute ride - it's maybe an hour?

As a parent with kids in a neighborhood school and one in a school we need to commute to - the difference is not trivial. If families don't have a parent sitting around waiting for the next dropoff/pickup, the logistics are crazy making and sometimes just not workable.

This isn't about rich/poor. This is about really understanding the tradeoffs. Long commutes make it really difficult for students to engage in anything other than classtime. That's a huge negative.


We have an activity that requires the kids to be at school after 5. So, they either have to stay till 5 or go home and return.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:I’ve read all 43 pages of this thread and am pretty disheartened. I have not seen one comment in favor of the more disruptive (to the current status quo) options say a single thing about the prospective quality of education improvement that the potential new Whitman and BCC students would receive. Instead, it’s all about sending Whitman and BCC bus loads of poor kids to somehow stick it to them? If those poor kids have to spend 45 minutes on a bus to (somehow?) upset the rich kids, great!

The kids being bussed from poor communities? Those are kids, not props in your vendetta fantasies. The rich kids you’re sticking it to? Also, just kids. The “foolish” communities that want to stay together? Communities of people (that just want to stay together).

Let’s make every school better and every kid’s life better. Let’s not use them as props against each other.


As a poor family. I sorry you don’t want our kids. Actually some of us aren’t that poor, we make different life choices. The best solution would be to open up another hs lower dcc.


Want to give you a big hug. Your kids are wanted. All kids are wanted. To be fair, from what I have read, I think everyone here welcomes diversity of income, culture and race. The problem is that no one of any income level wants to be bused away from their neighborhoods and rightfully so. Every school needs to be stronger and some underperforming schools need more money, support and staff. Whatever it takes, they should get it.


We are wanted as long as we are not in your schools or competition for your kids. No one wants their kids bussed but maybe this will give those kids opportunities they don’t have to get ahead. Our kids don’t have the same opportunities.


Unfortunately it’s a zero sum game and we don’t get do overs with our kids’ education. I’d support funding more opportunities for your kids through modestly higher property taxes but not at the expense of my own kids’ opportunities or busing them across town. Everyone wants the best opportunities for their children (which is why most of us moved to the best place we could afford) and are looking to preserve that as much as possible in an increasingly uncertain world.


Wow we are all on the same team PP. it’s not a zero sum game.


Are we? There's only one (or few) valedictorians and there's an implicit quota in how many kids from each school matriculate to a particular university. We're not in this together and that's been apparent since I set foot in this county or on DCUM and seen others asking questions about the "preferred preschool to get into the Ivy League" or "my DD has the following stats but they don't have a hook and therefore, didn't get into [insert highly selective university]", especially as our kids get closer and closer to high school. We're more like participants running the gauntlet in The Hunger Games where "may the odds ever be in your favor". This is the meritocracy that we find ourselves in and the system that each of us has to face (or ignore). So forgive me if I don't want my kids being bussed across town to a different school and not the neighborhood school I've already paid a high cost entry fee to get into.


The reality is that your kid would be more likely to get into an Ivy from one of the lower performing schools. You compete against the kids at your own high school. (I have kids in college and MCPS so I’ve seen this first hand.)

If your kid is not legacy, recruited athlete or head of very important organization at the HS, or you don’t have a building named after you at the Ivy, you’re kid isn’t getting in. Hello WashU and Northeastern!


Very true and why we avoided the w schools.


Same. As long as they have enough of a cohort to have challenging classes. I don't want my kid in a school that doesn't offer AP Calc and physics.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:MCPS and Flo Analytics should be ashamed of themselves for releasing Option 3 if there is actually no intention of using that map.


I do not think there is any intention of using any of these maps

I think these initial options are kind of a waste of time, but I don't think there was malicious intent. Just plain old incompetence.


The stated intention is to “refine” these options, so they very much are meant to represent possibilities.

MCPS and Flo Analytics should be ashamed of their incompetence, then. If it is just that.


Yup. I want someone to feed all this data into AI and see if it does any better. Probably won't but it would show that this was a waste of resources.
Anonymous
I don’t want rich disruptive kids with behavioral issues either. The difference is their parents usually find a solution to mitigate it.
Anonymous
Really curious if anyone thinks it is plausible that there will be an option keeping south kensington in play for BCC. Kids in this cluster already attend RH and then are split from their friends in 3rd to split btw NCC and CCES but come back together at SCMS and BCC-- it seems really unfair and silly to have kids together in elementary then not have them meet back up. MCPS should either redraw the lines for elementary or make this change. Also why are we not considering just taking kids from wheaton/ WJ etc and pushing those kids into the new school which makes more sense than bussing CCES kids to Blair, or removing South Kensington families from their assigned schools, friends, and schools in an easy distance.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:I’ve read all 43 pages of this thread and am pretty disheartened. I have not seen one comment in favor of the more disruptive (to the current status quo) options say a single thing about the prospective quality of education improvement that the potential new Whitman and BCC students would receive. Instead, it’s all about sending Whitman and BCC bus loads of poor kids to somehow stick it to them? If those poor kids have to spend 45 minutes on a bus to (somehow?) upset the rich kids, great!

The kids being bussed from poor communities? Those are kids, not props in your vendetta fantasies. The rich kids you’re sticking it to? Also, just kids. The “foolish” communities that want to stay together? Communities of people (that just want to stay together).

Let’s make every school better and every kid’s life better. Let’s not use them as props against each other.


As a poor family. I sorry you don’t want our kids. Actually some of us aren’t that poor, we make different life choices. The best solution would be to open up another hs lower dcc.


Want to give you a big hug. Your kids are wanted. All kids are wanted. To be fair, from what I have read, I think everyone here welcomes diversity of income, culture and race. The problem is that no one of any income level wants to be bused away from their neighborhoods and rightfully so. Every school needs to be stronger and some underperforming schools need more money, support and staff. Whatever it takes, they should get it.


We are wanted as long as we are not in your schools or competition for your kids. No one wants their kids bussed but maybe this will give those kids opportunities they don’t have to get ahead. Our kids don’t have the same opportunities.


Unfortunately it’s a zero sum game and we don’t get do overs with our kids’ education. I’d support funding more opportunities for your kids through modestly higher property taxes but not at the expense of my own kids’ opportunities or busing them across town. Everyone wants the best opportunities for their children (which is why most of us moved to the best place we could afford) and are looking to preserve that as much as possible in an increasingly uncertain world.


Wow we are all on the same team PP. it’s not a zero sum game.


Are we? There's only one (or few) valedictorians and there's an implicit quota in how many kids from each school matriculate to a particular university. We're not in this together and that's been apparent since I set foot in this county or on DCUM and seen others asking questions about the "preferred preschool to get into the Ivy League" or "my DD has the following stats but they don't have a hook and therefore, didn't get into [insert highly selective university]", especially as our kids get closer and closer to high school. We're more like participants running the gauntlet in The Hunger Games where "may the odds ever be in your favor". This is the meritocracy that we find ourselves in and the system that each of us has to face (or ignore). So forgive me if I don't want my kids being bussed across town to a different school and not the neighborhood school I've already paid a high cost entry fee to get into.


The reality is that your kid would be more likely to get into an Ivy from one of the lower performing schools. You compete against the kids at your own high school. (I have kids in college and MCPS so I’ve seen this first hand.)

If your kid is not legacy, recruited athlete or head of very important organization at the HS, or you don’t have a building named after you at the Ivy, you’re kid isn’t getting in. Hello WashU and Northeastern!


Very true and why we avoided the w schools.


Same. As long as they have enough of a cohort to have challenging classes. I don't want my kid in a school that doesn't offer AP Calc and physics.


You can do the dual enrollment at MC instead. Perhaps these advanced classes (multivariable) will be offered under the regional high school model so more kids can take.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’ve read all 43 pages of this thread and am pretty disheartened. I have not seen one comment in favor of the more disruptive (to the current status quo) options say a single thing about the prospective quality of education improvement that the potential new Whitman and BCC students would receive. Instead, it’s all about sending Whitman and BCC bus loads of poor kids to somehow stick it to them? If those poor kids have to spend 45 minutes on a bus to (somehow?) upset the rich kids, great!

The kids being bussed from poor communities? Those are kids, not props in your vendetta fantasies. The rich kids you’re sticking it to? Also, just kids. The “foolish” communities that want to stay together? Communities of people (that just want to stay together).

Let’s make every school better and every kid’s life better. Let’s not use them as props against each other.


As a poor family. I sorry you don’t want our kids. Actually some of us aren’t that poor, we make different life choices. The best solution would be to open up another hs lower dcc.


Want to give you a big hug. Your kids are wanted. All kids are wanted. To be fair, from what I have read, I think everyone here welcomes diversity of income, culture and race. The problem is that no one of any income level wants to be bused away from their neighborhoods and rightfully so. Every school needs to be stronger and some underperforming schools need more money, support and staff. Whatever it takes, they should get it.


We are wanted as long as we are not in your schools or competition for your kids. No one wants their kids bussed but maybe this will give those kids opportunities they don’t have to get ahead. Our kids don’t have the same opportunities.


Unfortunately it’s a zero sum game and we don’t get do overs with our kids’ education. I’d support funding more opportunities for your kids through modestly higher property taxes but not at the expense of my own kids’ opportunities or busing them across town. Everyone wants the best opportunities for their children (which is why most of us moved to the best place we could afford) and are looking to preserve that as much as possible in an increasingly uncertain world.


Wow we are all on the same team PP. it’s not a zero sum game.


Are we? There's only one (or few) valedictorians and there's an implicit quota in how many kids from each school matriculate to a particular university. We're not in this together and that's been apparent since I set foot in this county or on DCUM and seen others asking questions about the "preferred preschool to get into the Ivy League" or "my DD has the following stats but they don't have a hook and therefore, didn't get into [insert highly selective university]", especially as our kids get closer and closer to high school. We're more like participants running the gauntlet in The Hunger Games where "may the odds ever be in your favor". This is the meritocracy that we find ourselves in and the system that each of us has to face (or ignore). So forgive me if I don't want my kids being bussed across town to a different school and not the neighborhood school I've already paid a high cost entry fee to get into.


The reality is that your kid would be more likely to get into an Ivy from one of the lower performing schools. You compete against the kids at your own high school. (I have kids in college and MCPS so I’ve seen this first hand.)

If your kid is not legacy, recruited athlete or head of very important organization at the HS, or you don’t have a building named after you at the Ivy, you’re kid isn’t getting in. Hello WashU and Northeastern!


Very true and why we avoided the w schools.


Same. As long as they have enough of a cohort to have challenging classes. I don't want my kid in a school that doesn't offer AP Calc and physics.


You can do the dual enrollment at MC instead. Perhaps these advanced classes (multivariable) will be offered under the regional high school model so more kids can take.


Dual enrollment is not the same as AP for college admission
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’ve read all 43 pages of this thread and am pretty disheartened. I have not seen one comment in favor of the more disruptive (to the current status quo) options say a single thing about the prospective quality of education improvement that the potential new Whitman and BCC students would receive. Instead, it’s all about sending Whitman and BCC bus loads of poor kids to somehow stick it to them? If those poor kids have to spend 45 minutes on a bus to (somehow?) upset the rich kids, great!

The kids being bussed from poor communities? Those are kids, not props in your vendetta fantasies. The rich kids you’re sticking it to? Also, just kids. The “foolish” communities that want to stay together? Communities of people (that just want to stay together).

Let’s make every school better and every kid’s life better. Let’s not use them as props against each other.


As a poor family. I sorry you don’t want our kids. Actually some of us aren’t that poor, we make different life choices. The best solution would be to open up another hs lower dcc.


Want to give you a big hug. Your kids are wanted. All kids are wanted. To be fair, from what I have read, I think everyone here welcomes diversity of income, culture and race. The problem is that no one of any income level wants to be bused away from their neighborhoods and rightfully so. Every school needs to be stronger and some underperforming schools need more money, support and staff. Whatever it takes, they should get it.


We are wanted as long as we are not in your schools or competition for your kids. No one wants their kids bussed but maybe this will give those kids opportunities they don’t have to get ahead. Our kids don’t have the same opportunities.


Unfortunately it’s a zero sum game and we don’t get do overs with our kids’ education. I’d support funding more opportunities for your kids through modestly higher property taxes but not at the expense of my own kids’ opportunities or busing them across town. Everyone wants the best opportunities for their children (which is why most of us moved to the best place we could afford) and are looking to preserve that as much as possible in an increasingly uncertain world.


Wow we are all on the same team PP. it’s not a zero sum game.


Are we? There's only one (or few) valedictorians and there's an implicit quota in how many kids from each school matriculate to a particular university. We're not in this together and that's been apparent since I set foot in this county or on DCUM and seen others asking questions about the "preferred preschool to get into the Ivy League" or "my DD has the following stats but they don't have a hook and therefore, didn't get into [insert highly selective university]", especially as our kids get closer and closer to high school. We're more like participants running the gauntlet in The Hunger Games where "may the odds ever be in your favor". This is the meritocracy that we find ourselves in and the system that each of us has to face (or ignore). So forgive me if I don't want my kids being bussed across town to a different school and not the neighborhood school I've already paid a high cost entry fee to get into.
You did not pay a "fee" to "get into" your neighborhood. You purchased an asset, which you can sell or rent out if you want.


I purchased an asset at a several hundred thousand dollar premium to comparable assets because of its access to a desirable public school cluster.


School zoning is not in your deed
Anonymous
Blair isn't in its own cluster because the density in DTSS and TkPk fills it before you even get outside of the Beltway. This was a known thing when they moved it to its current location.

MCPS could have acquired the Adventist site in TkPk, used it for Northwood holding and then built a new high school there to alleviate Blair, but no. Or they could have bought the Discovery editing building on Kennett in DTSS to use for Northwood holding and turned that into an urban high school campus that would have alleviated Blair crowding and could have provided an alternative high school experience for kids who don't do well in huge suburban campus high schools like we build.

But instead they were pennywise and pound foolish and used Woodward for Northwood holding, meaning those kids are bused to North Bethesda for three years and don't even have sports fields or an auditorium.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’ve read all 43 pages of this thread and am pretty disheartened. I have not seen one comment in favor of the more disruptive (to the current status quo) options say a single thing about the prospective quality of education improvement that the potential new Whitman and BCC students would receive. Instead, it’s all about sending Whitman and BCC bus loads of poor kids to somehow stick it to them? If those poor kids have to spend 45 minutes on a bus to (somehow?) upset the rich kids, great!

The kids being bussed from poor communities? Those are kids, not props in your vendetta fantasies. The rich kids you’re sticking it to? Also, just kids. The “foolish” communities that want to stay together? Communities of people (that just want to stay together).

Let’s make every school better and every kid’s life better. Let’s not use them as props against each other.


As a poor family. I sorry you don’t want our kids. Actually some of us aren’t that poor, we make different life choices. The best solution would be to open up another hs lower dcc.


Want to give you a big hug. Your kids are wanted. All kids are wanted. To be fair, from what I have read, I think everyone here welcomes diversity of income, culture and race. The problem is that no one of any income level wants to be bused away from their neighborhoods and rightfully so. Every school needs to be stronger and some underperforming schools need more money, support and staff. Whatever it takes, they should get it.


We are wanted as long as we are not in your schools or competition for your kids. No one wants their kids bussed but maybe this will give those kids opportunities they don’t have to get ahead. Our kids don’t have the same opportunities.


Unfortunately it’s a zero sum game and we don’t get do overs with our kids’ education. I’d support funding more opportunities for your kids through modestly higher property taxes but not at the expense of my own kids’ opportunities or busing them across town. Everyone wants the best opportunities for their children (which is why most of us moved to the best place we could afford) and are looking to preserve that as much as possible in an increasingly uncertain world.


Wow we are all on the same team PP. it’s not a zero sum game.


Are we? There's only one (or few) valedictorians and there's an implicit quota in how many kids from each school matriculate to a particular university. We're not in this together and that's been apparent since I set foot in this county or on DCUM and seen others asking questions about the "preferred preschool to get into the Ivy League" or "my DD has the following stats but they don't have a hook and therefore, didn't get into [insert highly selective university]", especially as our kids get closer and closer to high school. We're more like participants running the gauntlet in The Hunger Games where "may the odds ever be in your favor". This is the meritocracy that we find ourselves in and the system that each of us has to face (or ignore). So forgive me if I don't want my kids being bussed across town to a different school and not the neighborhood school I've already paid a high cost entry fee to get into.


The reality is that your kid would be more likely to get into an Ivy from one of the lower performing schools. You compete against the kids at your own high school. (I have kids in college and MCPS so I’ve seen this first hand.)

If your kid is not legacy, recruited athlete or head of very important organization at the HS, or you don’t have a building named after you at the Ivy, you’re kid isn’t getting in. Hello WashU and Northeastern!


Very true and why we avoided the w schools.


Same. As long as they have enough of a cohort to have challenging classes. I don't want my kid in a school that doesn't offer AP Calc and physics.


You can do the dual enrollment at MC instead. Perhaps these advanced classes (multivariable) will be offered under the regional high school model so more kids can take.


Dual enrollment is not the same as AP for college admission


I think college understand if AP not available. They don’t want to see dual enrollment INSTEAD of AP. They would not understand if your student didn’t take the dual enrollment where AP not available. They look for most rigorous available.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Blair isn't in its own cluster because the density in DTSS and TkPk fills it before you even get outside of the Beltway. This was a known thing when they moved it to its current location.

MCPS could have acquired the Adventist site in TkPk, used it for Northwood holding and then built a new high school there to alleviate Blair, but no. Or they could have bought the Discovery editing building on Kennett in DTSS to use for Northwood holding and turned that into an urban high school campus that would have alleviated Blair crowding and could have provided an alternative high school experience for kids who don't do well in huge suburban campus high schools like we build.

But instead they were pennywise and pound foolish and used Woodward for Northwood holding, meaning those kids are bused to North Bethesda for three years and don't even have sports fields or an auditorium.


It’s terrible for the Northwood kids. So far from home and that place is an active construction zone. You never see evening activities there (judging from the parking lot). Ever.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Really curious if anyone thinks it is plausible that there will be an option keeping south kensington in play for BCC. Kids in this cluster already attend RH and then are split from their friends in 3rd to split btw NCC and CCES but come back together at SCMS and BCC-- it seems really unfair and silly to have kids together in elementary then not have them meet back up. MCPS should either redraw the lines for elementary or make this change. Also why are we not considering just taking kids from wheaton/ WJ etc and pushing those kids into the new school which makes more sense than bussing CCES kids to Blair, or removing South Kensington families from their assigned schools, friends, and schools in an easy distance.


Options 1, 2, and 4 are doing that.
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