Bowser Spreads the Wealth opens homeless shelters in each DC ward

[Anonymous]

By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

True if you take her concerns for the homeless at face value.

Not true if you understand how the plan creates multiple opportunities and budgets for continued cronyism. Then it makes full sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

Good point. Housing for the homeless at several times the cost that makes fiscal sense when housing could have been obtained more cheaply ends up eating a lot of the funding that could have helped other homeless folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

True if you take her concerns for the homeless at face value.

Not true if you understand how the plan creates multiple opportunities and budgets for continued cronyism. Then it makes full sense.

It's looking more and more like this is what it's actually about. I certainly hope Council puts a hold on this plan and investigates.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

The Wisconsin Ave. location which I assume is in the area with the most expensive real estate does not appear to be the most expensive on a per unit basis. Here are some monthly rents I gathered from the leases. I guess there could be differences between units that account for some of the differences, so consider these to be pretty rough numbers:

Wisconsin Ave. NW: $3,500
25th Place NE: $3,404
Delaware Ave. SW: $3,750
808-810 5th St. NW: $37.00 per gross square foot
5505 5th St. NW: $2,240
10th St. NW: $2,212

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In related news...is this true?

"The city estimates there were 1,311 homeless families in 2015, a sharp rise from 800 six years ago."
http://www.thegeorgetowndish.com/thedish/planned-shelter-sites-spark-initial-debate

I don't know if it is true, but it's certainly the case that, if your city has the most/best free housing in the greater area, more people who want or need free housing will find their way to your city.

You mean, homeless people have brains ????????

A few years back, in a different town, when I lived in a poor section of town, a lady who lived next door on Section 8 subsidy was sitting out on her porch drinking one night, and she told me all about her deal in quite a bit of detail - it was her, two boyfriends (though one was in jail on assault charges), her 3 kids, and her sister - they were all involved in doing residency fraud and false identities in multiple jurisdictions, collecting every benefit they could, lying to social workers about living arrangements and support, bartering away benefits so that they could get beer money, misrepresenting their situation, all kinds of stuff. They were all in their 20s, none of them had worked a real job in years, other than the other boyfriend selling weed and other hustles on the side. They did nothing but party. I'm not saying all folks are like that and in fact most of them aren't, but there are definitely some grifters out there who would think nothing of lying, cheating and deceiving in order to get a free apartment. It was also common practice for cops to pick up homeless folks and put them on a bus with a one-way ticket to a town that was "more amenable to the homeless." This stuff happens.

I have known folks like this from when I was growing up. I also know it going the other direction (in this case, not homeless housing but subsidized housing). I was living in one of what I thought was one of the nicest complexes in downtown Bethesda, and my neighbor who came from way more money than my family has ever seen explained that, since she was starting her own business and consequently had little income, her rent was subsidized by the government. (Her dad had worked it out for her.).

The system can so easily be gamed. (Especially on a larger level with the mayor's buddies.) Without some reasonable level of transparency, there's no chance. And I absolutely don't trust DC government.

Yes, when I lived in NYC, knew folks in arts and publishing. Loaded parents who arranged for them to live in affordable housing based on their salaries, then paid for their credit card bills every month.

Gaming the rent control system in NYC is an art form.

these are not rent control buildings. these are affordable housing buildings where only residents with certain incomes can live. wholly different

What rational is there to support putting low income housing and shelters in expensive areas except that she thinks we all need to share the burden? That is not enough rationale. I think she will eventually turn the Ward 3 shelter into permanent low income housing.

A Ward 3 resident here. Actually, it is "enough" rationale from a political perspective. Other Wards want all Wards to share in the "solution" to this problem - and these other Wards (who had more to do with her being elected than Ward 3) are making noise that they are unfairly shouldering the burden. They are not entirely wrong and if I lived in those Wards, I would be saying the same thing. Sure, it makes very little financial sense, but that is not the issue here. And truth be told, Ward 3 is stable, affluent and in demand (and that will remain the case). Certain neighborhoods in other Wards are on the cusp or are in the infancy of gentrification and contuining to concetrate these projects in those places can have a chiling impact on a neighborhood turning around. I have my concerns like the rest of you but we live in an urban area and we cannot always insulate ourselves from urban issues.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

The Wisconsin Ave. location which I assume is in the area with the most expensive real estate does not appear to be the most expensive on a per unit basis. Here are some monthly rents I gathered from the leases. I guess there could be differences between units that account for some of the differences, so consider these to be pretty rough numbers:

Wisconsin Ave. NW: $3,500
25th Place NE: $3,404
Delaware Ave. SW: $3,750
808-810 5th St. NW: $37.00 per gross square foot
5505 5th St. NW: $2,240
10th St. NW: $2,212

Jeff, I DK about the other sites but am banking that the WI Ave developer willing to go with wee bit less now in anticipation of circumventing the zoning restrictions and banking on big pay out with luxury condos

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

The Wisconsin Ave. location which I assume is in the area with the most expensive real estate does not appear to be the most expensive on a per unit basis. Here are some monthly rents I gathered from the leases. I guess there could be differences between units that account for some of the differences, so consider these to be pretty rough numbers:

Wisconsin Ave. NW: $3,500
25th Place NE: $3,404
Delaware Ave. SW: $3,750
808-810 5th St. NW: $37.00 per gross square foot
5505 5th St. NW: $2,240
10th St. NW: $2,212

Every single one of those is more than what I pay in housing costs. There are DEFINITELY cheaper, more fiscally responsible locations in the city.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

The Wisconsin Ave. location which I assume is in the area with the most expensive real estate does not appear to be the most expensive on a per unit basis. Here are some monthly rents I gathered from the leases. I guess there could be differences between units that account for some of the differences, so consider these to be pretty rough numbers:

Wisconsin Ave. NW: $3,500
25th Place NE: $3,404
Delaware Ave. SW: $3,750
808-810 5th St. NW: $37.00 per gross square foot
5505 5th St. NW: $2,240
10th St. NW: $2,212

Are these per unit costs to lease the building-sites? If that's the case and excluding utilities and construction this plan far exceeds in cost what is available to rent now. Glover Park Wisconsin ave -could put them in Alban Towers or this brand new building for less:
http://www.2255wisconsinave.com/floorplans.aspx

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

The Wisconsin Ave. location which I assume is in the area with the most expensive real estate does not appear to be the most expensive on a per unit basis. Here are some monthly rents I gathered from the leases. I guess there could be differences between units that account for some of the differences, so consider these to be pretty rough numbers:

Wisconsin Ave. NW: $3,500
25th Place NE: $3,404
Delaware Ave. SW: $3,750
808-810 5th St. NW: $37.00 per gross square foot
5505 5th St. NW: $2,240
10th St. NW: $2,212

And don't forget, remodeling/construction, maintenance, utility costs to make the units habitable will be ON TOP of this.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

The Wisconsin Ave. location which I assume is in the area with the most expensive real estate does not appear to be the most expensive on a per unit basis. Here are some monthly rents I gathered from the leases. I guess there could be differences between units that account for some of the differences, so consider these to be pretty rough numbers:

Wisconsin Ave. NW: $3,500
25th Place NE: $3,404
Delaware Ave. SW: $3,750
808-810 5th St. NW: $37.00 per gross square foot
5505 5th St. NW: $2,240
10th St. NW: $2,212

Jeff, I DK about the other sites but am banking that the WI Ave developer willing to go with wee bit less now in anticipation of circumventing the zoning restrictions and banking on big pay out with luxury condos

That seems the most obvious play here. This lease is for 15 years and some of the others are for 30 years. They are building dormitory style units wth shared bathroom and kitchens. Perhaps the number of bathrooms and kitchens would be appropriate for condominium or apartments 15 years from now, or maybe the owner would need to tear down the building and start over. But, maybe call their bluff by demanding that this lease be for 30 or 50 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In related news...is this true?

"The city estimates there were 1,311 homeless families in 2015, a sharp rise from 800 six years ago."
http://www.thegeorgetowndish.com/thedish/planned-shelter-sites-spark-initial-debate

I don't know if it is true, but it's certainly the case that, if your city has the most/best free housing in the greater area, more people who want or need free housing will find their way to your city.

You mean, homeless people have brains ????????

A few years back, in a different town, when I lived in a poor section of town, a lady who lived next door on Section 8 subsidy was sitting out on her porch drinking one night, and she told me all about her deal in quite a bit of detail - it was her, two boyfriends (though one was in jail on assault charges), her 3 kids, and her sister - they were all involved in doing residency fraud and false identities in multiple jurisdictions, collecting every benefit they could, lying to social workers about living arrangements and support, bartering away benefits so that they could get beer money, misrepresenting their situation, all kinds of stuff. They were all in their 20s, none of them had worked a real job in years, other than the other boyfriend selling weed and other hustles on the side. They did nothing but party. I'm not saying all folks are like that and in fact most of them aren't, but there are definitely some grifters out there who would think nothing of lying, cheating and deceiving in order to get a free apartment. It was also common practice for cops to pick up homeless folks and put them on a bus with a one-way ticket to a town that was "more amenable to the homeless." This stuff happens.

I have known folks like this from when I was growing up. I also know it going the other direction (in this case, not homeless housing but subsidized housing). I was living in one of what I thought was one of the nicest complexes in downtown Bethesda, and my neighbor who came from way more money than my family has ever seen explained that, since she was starting her own business and consequently had little income, her rent was subsidized by the government. (Her dad had worked it out for her.).

The system can so easily be gamed. (Especially on a larger level with the mayor's buddies.) Without some reasonable level of transparency, there's no chance. And I absolutely don't trust DC government.

Yes, when I lived in NYC, knew folks in arts and publishing. Loaded parents who arranged for them to live in affordable housing based on their salaries, then paid for their credit card bills every month.

Gaming the rent control system in NYC is an art form.

these are not rent control buildings. these are affordable housing buildings where only residents with certain incomes can live. wholly different

What rational is there to support putting low income housing and shelters in expensive areas except that she thinks we all need to share the burden? That is not enough rationale. I think she will eventually turn the Ward 3 shelter into permanent low income housing.

A Ward 3 resident here. Actually, it is "enough" rationale from a political perspective. Other Wards want all Wards to share in the "solution" to this problem - and these other Wards (who had more to do with her being elected than Ward 3) are making noise that they are unfairly shouldering the burden. They are not entirely wrong and if I lived in those Wards, I would be saying the same thing. Sure, it makes very little financial sense, but that is not the issue here. And truth be told, Ward 3 is stable, affluent and in demand (and that will remain the case). Certain neighborhoods in other Wards are on the cusp or are in the infancy of gentrification and contuining to concetrate these projects in those places can have a chiling impact on a neighborhood turning around. I have my concerns like the rest of you but we live in an urban area and we cannot always insulate ourselves from urban issues.

It's like when a couple of small Ward 3 schools were kicked out of their longtime feeder rights to Deal, largely for symbolic purposes. The numbers will have virtually no impact on Deal overcrowding, but DPCS felt politically that someone in Ward 3 had to be the sacrificial lamb ("collateral damage, in the words of one redistricting committee member), to show that all wards were feeling some pain.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By choosing to put the housing in expensive areas, she is choosing to pay twice what she would be paying in less expensive neighborhoods, therefore helping less people. It doesn't make sense at all.

The Wisconsin Ave. location which I assume is in the area with the most expensive real estate does not appear to be the most expensive on a per unit basis. Here are some monthly rents I gathered from the leases. I guess there could be differences between units that account for some of the differences, so consider these to be pretty rough numbers:

Wisconsin Ave. NW: $3,500
25th Place NE: $3,404
Delaware Ave. SW: $3,750
808-810 5th St. NW: $37.00 per gross square foot
5505 5th St. NW: $2,240
10th St. NW: $2,212

Jeff, I DK about the other sites but am banking that the WI Ave developer willing to go with wee bit less now in anticipation of circumventing the zoning restrictions and banking on big pay out with luxury condos

That seems the most obvious play here. This lease is for 15 years and some of the others are for 30 years. They are building dormitory style units wth shared bathroom and kitchens. Perhaps the number of bathrooms and kitchens would be appropriate for condominium or apartments 15 years from now, or maybe the owner would need to tear down the building and start over. But, maybe call their bluff by demanding that this lease be for 30 or 50 years.

Interesting idea, which would force their hand on disclosing more details of the arrangement and align more with the interests of public policy rather than those of some favored intermediary/partner.

[Anonymous]

This is just bizarre considering the rent is for 15-30 years , excludes construction costs, and utilities and is dorm style when the open market has new and other nice units that are real apartments.

What is wrong with this person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just bizarre considering the rent is for 15-30 years , excludes construction costs, and utilities and is dorm style when the open market has new and other nice units that are real apartments.

What is wrong with this person?

And in fact one could buy a nice $750,000 townhome for each homeless family for $3300/month if that were put into a 30 year mortgage.

That goes to show how truly messed up and financially out of kilter this plan is. Council needs to step in, put the brakes on with Bowser, investigate deeply and rethink on this. Seriously.