Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people think it is normal and okay to call 911 for 2 kids walking home. I think that is the most upsetting part in all of this. Our parents would all have been arrested. Or at least all the parents in my neighborhood.

Remember, only for kids under 8. Is your statement still true?

Yes I was born in 1974 and walked home from the half day K bus stop (2 blocks away) with 2 other K kids everyday at 12:13pm. I guess that is 3 guilty parents right there. After lunch, we all went back outside to play and then walked up to the bus stop at 3pm to see all the other kids and beg them to eat a snack quick to come out and play with us. Many of them were 6-8yrs old. I guess more guilty parents.

I think it really depends. If you're 2 blocks away and someone always has an eye on you, that's one thing. I mean, I can watch my kids walk 2 blocks to the bus stop from my house. But out of sight and no way of knowing if they got there? Nope, not under 8.

I walked a mile to school by myself, when I was 6. And a mile home. It used to be normal. It did. It really did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So how come in 1980 it was said that for a 6yr old 1st grader to be ready for 1st grade, they should be able to walk 4-8 blocks on their own? What changed besides parent's paranoia.

A lot of what changed involved the child in New York City who was abducted and killed on the first day he'd been allowed to walk to school by himself. That have a lot of parents pause and a realization that something can go drastically wrong in a moment. We can't protect our children from every possible danger but I do believe that we are morally and ethically bound to do our best to keep them safe in appropriate ways.

So you think that was the first child to have ever been abducted? No one ever was in 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's? Kids die in car crashes everyday. Do you still drive them? Kids die in schools multiple times a month? Do you still send your kids to school?

And as a matter of fact in 1980 there was 2.8 abductions per 1000 kids. In 2012 it is now down to 1.3 per 1000 kids. 73% of those 1.3kids are from people the child knew. So just that alone shows that the internet and 24hr news channels are doing their job to keep you tuning in. Paranoia.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people think it is normal and okay to call 911 for 2 kids walking home. I think that is the most upsetting part in all of this. Our parents would all have been arrested. Or at least all the parents in my neighborhood.

Remember, only for kids under 8. Is your statement still true?

Yes I was born in 1974 and walked home from the half day K bus stop (2 blocks away) with 2 other K kids everyday at 12:13pm. I guess that is 3 guilty parents right there. After lunch, we all went back outside to play and then walked up to the bus stop at 3pm to see all the other kids and beg them to eat a snack quick to come out and play with us. Many of them were 6-8yrs old. I guess more guilty parents.

I think it really depends. If you're 2 blocks away and someone always has an eye on you, that's one thing. I mean, I can watch my kids walk 2 blocks to the bus stop from my house. But out of sight and no way of knowing if they got there? Nope, not under 8.

Our moms were inside doing laundry, watching soaps, getting dinner ready. They never watched us outside. Ever!

That's you. Not true for me until I was more like 8-9. (But my mom also didn't like soaps.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people think it is normal and okay to call 911 for 2 kids walking home. I think that is the most upsetting part in all of this. Our parents would all have been arrested. Or at least all the parents in my neighborhood.

Remember, only for kids under 8. Is your statement still true?

Yes I was born in 1974 and walked home from the half day K bus stop (2 blocks away) with 2 other K kids everyday at 12:13pm. I guess that is 3 guilty parents right there. After lunch, we all went back outside to play and then walked up to the bus stop at 3pm to see all the other kids and beg them to eat a snack quick to come out and play with us. Many of them were 6-8yrs old. I guess more guilty parents.

I think it really depends. If you're 2 blocks away and someone always has an eye on you, that's one thing. I mean, I can watch my kids walk 2 blocks to the bus stop from my house. But out of sight and no way of knowing if they got there? Nope, not under 8.

I walked a mile to school by myself, when I was 6. And a mile home. It used to be normal. It did. It really did.

For some. Not all. But even if it was accepted, that doesn't mean it was a good idea then or now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not making fun at all. Pointing out that we simply don't know his maturity level.

You use grammar as an indicator of maturity? Oh my.

Literally the only information we have about this kid. He certainly doesn't come off as very mature. But of course he must be, because, you know, free range.

I can not believe you are rationalizing this child can not be on his own because of one sentence in an article. Wow! Have your heard how teens talk and text?

Never said he can't be on his own. Said we don't know if he's capable of supervising his 6yo sister. That's all. We don't know. YOu don't either.

And neither do the police or CPS. Only the parents do and I trust in parents just like I want my neighbors trusting in me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people think it is normal and okay to call 911 for 2 kids walking home. I think that is the most upsetting part in all of this. Our parents would all have been arrested. Or at least all the parents in my neighborhood.

Remember, only for kids under 8. Is your statement still true?

Yes I was born in 1974 and walked home from the half day K bus stop (2 blocks away) with 2 other K kids everyday at 12:13pm. I guess that is 3 guilty parents right there. After lunch, we all went back outside to play and then walked up to the bus stop at 3pm to see all the other kids and beg them to eat a snack quick to come out and play with us. Many of them were 6-8yrs old. I guess more guilty parents.

I think it really depends. If you're 2 blocks away and someone always has an eye on you, that's one thing. I mean, I can watch my kids walk 2 blocks to the bus stop from my house. But out of sight and no way of knowing if they got there? Nope, not under 8.

I walked a mile to school by myself, when I was 6. And a mile home. It used to be normal. It did. It really did.

For some. Not all. But even if it was accepted, that doesn't mean it was a good idea then or now.

Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Md. free-range parents to file lawsuit against CPS to fight the "unlawful seizure of their children."

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/maryland/2015/04/14/free-range-parenting-lawsuit-cps/25759523/

I don't like this couple and I'm on CPS side on this one, but I'm actually glad they're suing. Let's get this issue resolved. Is CPS overstepping? I read the regs to be pretty clear that you're not supposed to leave a kid under 8 unsupervised, and the supervision must be by someone 11 (if sibling) or 13 or older. But it's a bit fuzzy whether that applies to public spaces or just at home. So let's get it resolved already. Regardless, I expect there will not be any finding of liability on the part of the police or CPS. They're going to be able to show that they're legally obligated to follow up on the report and not just turn the kids over to the parents without some investigation. To me, the only thing they may have done wrong is take too long in resolving it. But I'm not sure how that leads to any liability.
I also fully expect that if this couple (and all the spittle-flinging crazies on this thread) succeed in removing any regulations for young children being left unsupervised, they will then vilify CPS for NOT protecting unsupervised young kids when something does happen as a result of that. Of course, most of the time, the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't make the news. And I also think that a *lot* of the reason that people think these parents are good parents is simply because they look like us and our friends. A lot packed into that level of bias.

First off, they don't look like me. Second, I think they are good parents because I used to do the same when I was a kid and I now do the same with my kids. I think they (my kids) are better off for it. Stop generalizing to prove a point that can not be proven.

They are wealthy and white. And most of the people up in arms about this are wealthy and white. Are you seriously disputing that? I think they're crappy parents because they decided to make their point by traumatizing their kids. The dog bites you once, don't throw your kid in front of it. If you think the law is unjust, work to change it. The knew this would happen and went for it anyway.

Please post the law that says it is illegal for a 6 and 10yr old to walk home from a park without parent supervision? I am curious to see what you post because there isn't one. How about you start finding ways to make it a law for kids to not play outside alone, ever - if you that having no law for it is unjust.

Look back at the regs again that have been posted dozens of times. It's not clear whether they apply to outdoor spaces.

Look, there does not have to be a law or reg encompassing thisbspecific conduct. CPS has to investigate allegations of "child neglect," which is broadly defined. They had to check their databases and interview the kids to assess whether they were in danger. Given that this family has an open file, that would have taken a while. All told, 5 hours is not an unreasonable time to assess whether the kids were in danger. If the parents object then they should have been more careful about observing community norms about the capacity of childreb to be alone. Similarly if they were a family that chose to defy community norms by giving harsh spankings and punishment, they should expect to be scrutinized for possible abuse. They are the ones deliberately choosing to flout norms about child safety, so it is hypocritical in the maximum for them to act like victims when they attract attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not making fun at all. Pointing out that we simply don't know his maturity level.

You use grammar as an indicator of maturity? Oh my.

Literally the only information we have about this kid. He certainly doesn't come off as very mature. But of course he must be, because, you know, free range.

I can not believe you are rationalizing this child can not be on his own because of one sentence in an article. Wow! Have your heard how teens talk and text?

Never said he can't be on his own. Said we don't know if he's capable of supervising his 6yo sister. That's all. We don't know. YOu don't either.

And neither do the police or CPS. Only the parents do and I trust in parents just like I want my neighbors trusting in me.

The police and CPS have a lot more information than you do. They're investigating. From what I've seen of the parents' judgment so far, I don't trust them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I walked a mile to school by myself, when I was 6. And a mile home. It used to be normal. It did. It really did.

For some. Not all. But even if it was accepted, that doesn't mean it was a good idea then or now.

No, it was normal for all. It really was. I don't understand why so many posters on DCUM seem to regard factual statements like "It used to be normal for six-year-olds to walk places by themselves" as tall tales on the order of "Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny used to have dinner with us every Saturday night".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Md. free-range parents to file lawsuit against CPS to fight the "unlawful seizure of their children."

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/maryland/2015/04/14/free-range-parenting-lawsuit-cps/25759523/

I don't like this couple and I'm on CPS side on this one, but I'm actually glad they're suing. Let's get this issue resolved. Is CPS overstepping? I read the regs to be pretty clear that you're not supposed to leave a kid under 8 unsupervised, and the supervision must be by someone 11 (if sibling) or 13 or older. But it's a bit fuzzy whether that applies to public spaces or just at home. So let's get it resolved already. Regardless, I expect there will not be any finding of liability on the part of the police or CPS. They're going to be able to show that they're legally obligated to follow up on the report and not just turn the kids over to the parents without some investigation. To me, the only thing they may have done wrong is take too long in resolving it. But I'm not sure how that leads to any liability.
I also fully expect that if this couple (and all the spittle-flinging crazies on this thread) succeed in removing any regulations for young children being left unsupervised, they will then vilify CPS for NOT protecting unsupervised young kids when something does happen as a result of that. Of course, most of the time, the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't make the news. And I also think that a *lot* of the reason that people think these parents are good parents is simply because they look like us and our friends. A lot packed into that level of bias.

First off, they don't look like me. Second, I think they are good parents because I used to do the same when I was a kid and I now do the same with my kids. I think they (my kids) are better off for it. Stop generalizing to prove a point that can not be proven.

They are wealthy and white. And most of the people up in arms about this are wealthy and white. Are you seriously disputing that? I think they're crappy parents because they decided to make their point by traumatizing their kids. The dog bites you once, don't throw your kid in front of it. If you think the law is unjust, work to change it. The knew this would happen and went for it anyway.

Please post the law that says it is illegal for a 6 and 10yr old to walk home from a park without parent supervision? I am curious to see what you post because there isn't one. How about you start finding ways to make it a law for kids to not play outside alone, ever - if you that having no law for it is unjust.

Look back at the regs again that have been posted dozens of times. It's not clear whether they apply to outdoor spaces.

Look, there does not have to be a law or reg encompassing thisbspecific conduct. CPS has to investigate allegations of "child neglect," which is broadly defined. They had to check their databases and interview the kids to assess whether they were in danger. Given that this family has an open file, that would have taken a while. All told, 5 hours is not an unreasonable time to assess whether the kids were in danger. If the parents object then they should have been more careful about observing community norms about the capacity of childreb to be alone. Similarly if they were a family that chose to defy community norms by giving harsh spankings and punishment, they should expect to be scrutinized for possible abuse. They are the ones deliberately choosing to flout norms about child safety, so it is hypocritical in the maximum for them to act like victims when they attract attention.

Completely agree (PP you're responding to).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I walked a mile to school by myself, when I was 6. And a mile home. It used to be normal. It did. It really did.

For some. Not all. But even if it was accepted, that doesn't mean it was a good idea then or now.

No, it was normal for all. It really was. I don't understand why so many posters on DCUM seem to regard factual statements like "It used to be normal for six-year-olds to walk places by themselves" as tall tales on the order of "Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny used to have dinner with us every Saturday night".

Well I was there too, and it wasn't normal for me or in my area. So it was normal for you, but not normal for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there does not have to be a law or reg encompassing thisbspecific conduct. CPS has to investigate allegations of "child neglect," which is broadly defined. They had to check their databases and interview the kids to assess whether they were in danger. Given that this family has an open file, that would have taken a while. All told, 5 hours is not an unreasonable time to assess whether the kids were in danger. If the parents object then they should have been more careful about observing community norms about the capacity of childreb to be alone. Similarly if they were a family that chose to defy community norms by giving harsh spankings and punishment, they should expect to be scrutinized for possible abuse. They are the ones deliberately choosing to flout norms about child safety, so it is hypocritical in the maximum for them to act like victims when they attract attention.

They are not acting like victims when they attract attention. They are acting like victims when the police pick their children up, take the children to CPS, don't tell the parents where the children are, and hold the children for 6 hours. Which is what they're suing about. Good for them.

As for flouting norms -- speak for yourself. They're not my norms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well I was there too, and it wasn't normal for me or in my area. So it was normal for you, but not normal for all.

When were you there? What year were you 6?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I walked a mile to school by myself, when I was 6. And a mile home. It used to be normal. It did. It really did.

For some. Not all. But even if it was accepted, that doesn't mean it was a good idea then or now.

No, it was normal for all. It really was. I don't understand why so many posters on DCUM seem to regard factual statements like "It used to be normal for six-year-olds to walk places by themselves" as tall tales on the order of "Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny used to have dinner with us every Saturday night".

Well I was there too, and it wasn't normal for me or in my area. So it was normal for you, but not normal for all.

It was normal for me, but I got bullied, flashed, and crossed dangerous streets doing it. I would never let my 6 year old walk the same route today.

[Anonymous]

Here's the thing. Let's assume at some point in a child's life something bad is going to happen when a parent isn't there.

Going to happen; no avoiding it.

Wouldn't it be nice to know that your child has the capacity and self-assuredness to effectively neutralize the situation or know how to access someone who can?

This kind of knowledge and confidence has to be taught and practiced so when the time comes that the child has to act, they are prepared.

No amount of "don't talk to strangers and hold mommy's hand while crossing the street" will ever help your child not get victimized or run over by a car.