Sidwell College Admissions This Year

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:College admissions have been unpredictable and sometimes shocking. But Sidwell students have been well prepared to succeed wherever they go. College isn't the end goal. It's just another step. They will all be fine.

This may all be true, but it’s also a distraction in the context of this discussion. This is the kind of nonsense that Mamadou and the school trots out, consistent with its arrogant and dismissive tone towards parents. It is a very convenient way to deflect any scrutiny of the school.

“Shocking” results are not OK just because the kids are well prepared. Saying that they will all be fine in this context suggests that college placement doesn’t matter.

Why is it Sidwell's fault that COVID prompted colleges to go test optional causing a steep decline in acceptance rates everywhere? All they can do is advise families of the landscape, which they did. The kids who were realistic about their options and chose a variety of schools that would make them happy, did fine. I have yet to hear about a senior who had no options.

IMO they did not advise families of the landscape or actually counsel families. “They will all be fine” is their crutch for not doing any meaningful, real advising or advocacy.

They absolutely did. Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year how COVID was changing things, how the then current class (2021) had to adjust and how it was very important not to focus on the reach+ schools but rather the targets and safeties. Sorry you didn't get the message. It was pretty clear at the time.

Sure, but this puts the burden onto the students entirely, rather than to say how the school will maximize opportunities in this situation.

The burden is on the students. That is who is getting to these places. A high school can't change that. A high school can make a kid into an athletic recruit? A development case? A published author or researcher? A musical virtuoso? Look at who these elite college admit? Great stats from a great high school is not enough.

The great high school education is to prepare the student to excel at the ultimate college destination. It cannot engineer that destination.

DP. I believe what pp was saying is that the school should provide real and meaningful individual counseling advice to students, and the school shouldn’t act as if it has no obligation to help engineer the best outcomes—which a school can still do. Partly by providing good advice, and partly through its advocacy for each student. Sidwell’s CCO appears not to believe it has a responsibility to play such a role. And if it does try, it clearly does not do a very good job at it.

This is what the pps were getting at with the “turbocharged” comments (also not mine). A good CCO can still do much more than just provide information and push paper to make sure deadlines are met. Sidwell’s CCO is not good.

The CCO's CANNOT call colleges and advocate for kids. The colleges can and do call the CCOs to ask about applicants.

The CCO CAN advise kids about realistic lists. They cannot fill out the forms, produce videos or write the essays.

they CAN put your applicant in the best light possible with their official school letter of recommendation.

I am not sure what else you think the CCO is supposed to do.

Whats the CCO supposed to do?

See Dalton School (NY) outcomes (scroll to bottom of page): https://www.dalton.org/programs/high-school/college-counseling

Approximately 40 percent into HYPS + MIT. 40 percent!

It gets to 60 percent when you add top LACs and other major schools like Duke, NorthWestern and JHU..

That's what a CCO is supposed to do.

Note: SAT/ACT scores are identical for both schools.

So you think the average SFS familly is going to have the same MILLIONS in extra giving power that the average Dalton family will have? Sorry, whole different ballgame in NYC.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think the Sidwell CCO actually does a very good job. The brutal reality is they have the absolutely daunting task of telling the PARENTS of the bottom 85 percent of the class that there is no way in hell their kid is getting into the Ivy League. I believe they deliver that message but parents don’t “hear” it. Sadly, I think parents don’t accept the reality that their kid just isn’t a top student in a Sidwell context no matter how otherwise fabulous the kid might be. I am with you when it comes to undistinguished legacies who defy this reality. My observation is that top students with the most rigorous coursework (top 10 percent of class — top 13 students) got into top schools. This year. The next 40 percent got into top 50 schools. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Every single kid in the grade has a bright future. Sidwell parent of senior.

How do you define top students? I know one student who took most rigorous courses (both math and science) with almost 4.0 GPA didn’t get into any Ivy except for one WL. A lot of students think the student is top 4 although Sidwell neither ranks nor weights the difficulty of the courses. But most students know who are truly top students. High GPA with all easy courses are not comparable with the same high GPA but taking the most difficult math (III and IV) and science courses (Physics II)

The student you are describing is obviously a top student under anyone's definition, so I don't know why you are bringing up this whole most difficult math/science track in this context. And there's no reason for you to disparage other kids as taking "all easy courses" which is patently ridiculous. Last, there are almost no kids with a 4.0, whether they take your supposed "easy courses" or not. The grading in the humanities classes is also far from easy.

Obviously you may not be a Sidwell parent. Or you may know different groups of the students. I know the student has GPA 3.98 and took most challenging math and science courses. The student only had 2 A-. I also know the student who took most challenging math but not science courses has perfect 4.0.

I am a parent of a senior, though I don't gossip about kids' grades with my senior. Perhaps you know these kids well because your child is also in the top math/science cohort. That's awesome, really great, congrats. My point is that I agree they are top kids under anyone's definition, and I don't know why you are bring up all this extraneous information. No one is disagreeing with you. I still don't know what point it is that you are trying to make in the context of this discussion.

Because you said no perfect GPA. Just try to let you know this is not the fact. Sorry to make you feel offended when just simply pointed out your not so accurate statement. Also do you everyone takes the same humanity courses no matter your STEM OR NON STEM students

DP: You really should not be pointing out such specific identifiable information about specific students at a school. What rights do you have to be sharing this information?

Your baseless accusation. Can you identify whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your logic is that is the identical students had attended Dalton instead of sidwell, the college list would be identical. That is not sound logic.

Who said anything about "identical" outcomes? Sidwell is way off compared to this School. The Dalton outcomes also suggest that not all elite schools have taken a hit in recent years (as some were claiming upthread).

THEY HAVE MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$ TO GIVE TO THE COLLEGES - IT ISN'T HARD

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Except colleges no longer want kids from "elite" private schools. There is no advantage and it can actually hurt.

At this point all you can expect from your CCO office is that they offer useful info in selecting colleges, write a coherent letter and keep students on track in the application process. Colleges don't want them to call and advocate on behalf of a student anymore.

This is bs. The majority of students at elite schools are from elite privates.
The numbers have dropped a small amount though and that is why everyone is freaking out.

The majority, yes, but the % is down from 10 years ago and that trend isn't stopping any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions have been unpredictable and sometimes shocking. But Sidwell students have been well prepared to succeed wherever they go. College isn't the end goal. It's just another step. They will all be fine.

This may all be true, but it’s also a distraction in the context of this discussion. This is the kind of nonsense that Mamadou and the school trots out, consistent with its arrogant and dismissive tone towards parents. It is a very convenient way to deflect any scrutiny of the school.

“Shocking” results are not OK just because the kids are well prepared. Saying that they will all be fine in this context suggests that college placement doesn’t matter.

Why is it Sidwell's fault that COVID prompted colleges to go test optional causing a steep decline in acceptance rates everywhere? All they can do is advise families of the landscape, which they did. The kids who were realistic about their options and chose a variety of schools that would make them happy, did fine. I have yet to hear about a senior who had no options.

IMO they did not advise families of the landscape or actually counsel families. “They will all be fine” is their crutch for not doing any meaningful, real advising or advocacy.

They absolutely did. Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year how COVID was changing things, how the then current class (2021) had to adjust and how it was very important not to focus on the reach+ schools but rather the targets and safeties. Sorry you didn't get the message. It was pretty clear at the time.

No need for the snarky response. And why are you making assumptions about my kid, who actually got in ED? That was no thanks to the school or its crappy counseling; everything I said above is 100% accurate, and I am pissed for my kid’s friends and classmates.

And I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “Lauren was very clear from the beginning of junior year...” Are you referring to the grade-wide zoom meetings? I attended all of those, and I disagree that any meaningful substantive advice or counseling was shared in those silly PowerPoint-heavy meetings going over checklists. Regardless, the real counseling and advising is supposed to occur in the individual meetings. And in those meetings, based on our experience and discussions with other parents, the counselors absolutely did not provide any real advice or counseling.

Then you weren't paying attention to what she was saying. She was very clear.

Congrats to your kid.

I know you keep saying this. I disagree with you. Neither of us can definitively establish that our recollection is the correct one.

As I said previously though, the much more important question is what all four counselors discussed in their individual meetings and communications with kids and families. That is the principal context in which counseling and advice is provided. And I will say, based on our own interactions with our kid's counselor, that there was absolutely no substantive advice provided whatsoever, much less any substantive advice provided regarding the "changing landscape." Believe me, I asked, and I got nothing in return. My discussions with other parents tells me that our family was not alone in this respect.

Except one of us got the message loud and clear and the other one can't remember, but was clearly bored by the power point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Sidwell CCO actually does a very good job. The brutal reality is they have the absolutely daunting task of telling the PARENTS of the bottom 85 percent of the class that there is no way in hell their kid is getting into the Ivy League. I believe they deliver that message but parents don’t “hear” it. Sadly, I think parents don’t accept the reality that their kid just isn’t a top student in a Sidwell context no matter how otherwise fabulous the kid might be. I am with you when it comes to undistinguished legacies who defy this reality. My observation is that top students with the most rigorous coursework (top 10 percent of class — top 13 students) got into top schools. This year. The next 40 percent got into top 50 schools. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Every single kid in the grade has a bright future. Sidwell parent of senior.

Sidwell's top 10% aren't getting into super selective colleges without a hook, just like any school in this area.

False

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public school parent here. Sometimes I feel bad about my student not having gotten the type of education that kids at schools like Sidwell get. Then I read through threads like this one and THANK GOD that my kid wasn't in this type of toxic environment for the last few years, because:

1) my kid knows that their worth is not based on which college accepts them; and

2) we know that there are more than 7 great colleges out there.

As a prof, I have found the students from private schools to come in with a more sophisticated set of skills, but they don't seem to grow as fast in college. The students who get their first writing/reading/research intensives in college rather than in high school often just shoot up amazingly fast. Freshman fall I can tell who went to a 'good private'--by sophomore or junior year there's zero difference in reading/writing/critical thinking. Also, the former public school kids often seem more confident in their academic skills in their junior and senior years in college because they can sense their growth and it coincides with them living more independently. This isn't universal, of course,---just a trend I've noticed. It's been enough for me to decide that good public schools are fine for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Sidwell CCO actually does a very good job. The brutal reality is they have the absolutely daunting task of telling the PARENTS of the bottom 85 percent of the class that there is no way in hell their kid is getting into the Ivy League. I believe they deliver that message but parents don’t “hear” it. Sadly, I think parents don’t accept the reality that their kid just isn’t a top student in a Sidwell context no matter how otherwise fabulous the kid might be. I am with you when it comes to undistinguished legacies who defy this reality. My observation is that top students with the most rigorous coursework (top 10 percent of class — top 13 students) got into top schools. This year. The next 40 percent got into top 50 schools. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Every single kid in the grade has a bright future. Sidwell parent of senior.

You are just moving the goalposts and defining expectations down. Many more students than the top 13 should reasonably expect to be competitive at Ivies/Stanford/MIT and top SLACs and have a real chance of enrolling at them.

The Dalton list that people have been pointing to shows that this is a reasonable expectation. Even as a 5 year list, look at the averages per year:

Amherst 1/year
Bowdoin 1-2/year
Brown 6/year
Columbia 4/year
Cornell 7-8/year
Dartmouth 2-3/year
Duke 2/year
Harvard 7/year
MIT 1/year
Princeton 3/year
Stanford 1/2 year
Penn 4/year
Williams 1-2/year
Yale 4-5/year

Just looking at the Ivies, that averages out to more than 35 students per year. Their senior class is about the same size as Sidwell if not a bit smaller.

You understand that between 2020 and 2021, the landscape changed significantly, right? Let's compare the 2015-2020 to 2021-2026 in a few years. That will be a more meaningful discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Sidwell CCO actually does a very good job. The brutal reality is they have the absolutely daunting task of telling the PARENTS of the bottom 85 percent of the class that there is no way in hell their kid is getting into the Ivy League. I believe they deliver that message but parents don’t “hear” it. Sadly, I think parents don’t accept the reality that their kid just isn’t a top student in a Sidwell context no matter how otherwise fabulous the kid might be. I am with you when it comes to undistinguished legacies who defy this reality. My observation is that top students with the most rigorous coursework (top 10 percent of class — top 13 students) got into top schools. This year. The next 40 percent got into top 50 schools. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Every single kid in the grade has a bright future. Sidwell parent of senior.

You are just moving the goalposts and defining expectations down. Many more students than the top 13 should reasonably expect to be competitive at Ivies/Stanford/MIT and top SLACs and have a real chance of enrolling at them.

The Dalton list that people have been pointing to shows that this is a reasonable expectation. Even as a 5 year list, look at the averages per year:

Amherst 1/year
Bowdoin 1-2/year
Brown 6/year
Columbia 4/year
Cornell 7-8/year
Dartmouth 2-3/year
Duke 2/year
Harvard 7/year
MIT 1/year
Princeton 3/year
Stanford 1/2 year
Penn 4/year
Williams 1-2/year
Yale 4-5/year

Just looking at the Ivies, that averages out to more than 35 students per year. Their senior class is about the same size as Sidwell if not a bit smaller.

I don't think that is how it works. Some if those ivy kids are probably headed to those school regardless if they go to Dalton or sidwell or get homeschooled in a basement.

And so, whats your point? How does this affect the discussion re the comparison between the outcomes at the two schools?

A billionaire legacy to harvard will get their kid into harvard regardless of where their kid went to high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Sidwell CCO actually does a very good job. The brutal reality is they have the absolutely daunting task of telling the PARENTS of the bottom 85 percent of the class that there is no way in hell their kid is getting into the Ivy League. I believe they deliver that message but parents don’t “hear” it. Sadly, I think parents don’t accept the reality that their kid just isn’t a top student in a Sidwell context no matter how otherwise fabulous the kid might be. I am with you when it comes to undistinguished legacies who defy this reality. My observation is that top students with the most rigorous coursework (top 10 percent of class — top 13 students) got into top schools. This year. The next 40 percent got into top 50 schools. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Every single kid in the grade has a bright future. Sidwell parent of senior.

How do you define top students? I know one student who took most rigorous courses (both math and science) with almost 4.0 GPA didn’t get into any Ivy except for one WL. A lot of students think the student is top 4 although Sidwell neither ranks nor weights the difficulty of the courses. But most students know who are truly top students. High GPA with all easy courses are not comparable with the same high GPA but taking the most difficult math (III and IV) and science courses (Physics II)

FWIW, our kid fits this profile and didn't apply to any Ivies - no interest. It really isn't the panacea that people make it out to be.

[Anonymous]

Why speculate when you can see the admissions on Instagram -

https://www.instagram.com/sidwellseniors2022/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Sidwell CCO actually does a very good job. The brutal reality is they have the absolutely daunting task of telling the PARENTS of the bottom 85 percent of the class that there is no way in hell their kid is getting into the Ivy League. I believe they deliver that message but parents don’t “hear” it. Sadly, I think parents don’t accept the reality that their kid just isn’t a top student in a Sidwell context no matter how otherwise fabulous the kid might be. I am with you when it comes to undistinguished legacies who defy this reality. My observation is that top students with the most rigorous coursework (top 10 percent of class — top 13 students) got into top schools. This year. The next 40 percent got into top 50 schools. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Every single kid in the grade has a bright future. Sidwell parent of senior.

How do you define top students? I know one student who took most rigorous courses (both math and science) with almost 4.0 GPA didn’t get into any Ivy except for one WL. A lot of students think the student is top 4 although Sidwell neither ranks nor weights the difficulty of the courses. But most students know who are truly top students. High GPA with all easy courses are not comparable with the same high GPA but taking the most difficult math (III and IV) and science courses (Physics II)

What I don't understand is why you are so shocked by that. Is this kid owed a slot at an Ivy, just because s/he did well at Sidwell?

What all Sidwell underclassman parents had better wake up to is this: Top schools, and ivies in particular, have changed the profile of the kind of kid(s) they are looking for. They are no longer (as) interested in east coast prep school kids who have perfect stats, like they were back in the day when you were in high school. The formula now is top kid at an urban or rural school, first gen (that is REALLY big - how many of those do you think there are at Sidwell?) and THEN the grades/ stats/ activities to back it up.

Seriously, there is still time to move to North Dakota.

URM, recruited athlete and/or 7 figure donor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Sidwell CCO actually does a very good job. The brutal reality is they have the absolutely daunting task of telling the PARENTS of the bottom 85 percent of the class that there is no way in hell their kid is getting into the Ivy League. I believe they deliver that message but parents don’t “hear” it. Sadly, I think parents don’t accept the reality that their kid just isn’t a top student in a Sidwell context no matter how otherwise fabulous the kid might be. I am with you when it comes to undistinguished legacies who defy this reality. My observation is that top students with the most rigorous coursework (top 10 percent of class — top 13 students) got into top schools. This year. The next 40 percent got into top 50 schools. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Every single kid in the grade has a bright future. Sidwell parent of senior.

Sidwell's top 10% aren't getting into super selective colleges without a hook, just like any school in this area.

False

Evidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public school parent here. Sometimes I feel bad about my student not having gotten the type of education that kids at schools like Sidwell get. Then I read through threads like this one and THANK GOD that my kid wasn't in this type of toxic environment for the last few years, because:

1) my kid knows that their worth is not based on which college accepts them; and

2) we know that there are more than 7 great colleges out there.

Sidwell kids know this too. It is just a handfukl or parents, or more likely, trolls, that are keeping this thread going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why speculate when you can see the admissions on Instagram -

https://www.instagram.com/sidwellseniors2022/

15 kids out of 130. Great sample there.