GT/LD middle school program in montgomery county

[Anonymous]

Anyone here have experience with Montgomery County's GT/LD middle school program, or at least know how it works? Our advocate has recommended it, but I wanted to hear from parents.

[Anonymous]

Found this in a quick search. Comes up pretty frequently. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/639715.page#10842949

[Anonymous]

So glad you asked, I just observed my son's classes this morning! My son is on year two of our foray into the GT/LD program at North Bethesda MS.

Your experience will vary depending on your child's specific needs. It's not perfect, but for us, it's a Godsend, because it was either that or some kind of private (I didn't even research, the prices were too astronomical). When I asked other parents about their experiences, prior to committing to this program, they all told me it had been (or was) wonderful for their child. To me this shows that the team organizing such a program has trained teachers and staff who are highly flexible and accommodating. Work closely with them, and they will do their best to help.

I am truly grateful that such a program exists. In my home country, they're just coming around to getting accommodations in public school for children with light special needs. Nothing for more affected children, and as for twice exceptional, I don't think people even know such a condition exists!

Here's how it works in practice: the GT/LD cohort is very small at every grade level, and they are assigned core classes taught by two teachers and populated by GT/LD students as well as by other students (who may or may not have been specially selected for that class based on their profile). In theory, both teachers should have a background in the subject matter, but in practice it doesn't always happen. For example, my son's math class has a para-educator who hands out material, but doesn't answer questions. His English class had two English teachers, on the other hand, and the difference in the teaching efficiency is visible. I suspect it's harder to get paras with math backgrounds than paras with humanities backgrounds!

The GT/LD students go about their school day like all the others, and have PE, and their electives, like the rest of the students. The only difference is that a daily resource class takes the place of one of their electives. Unlike other schools, this is a GT/LD-specific resource class, where students can complete tests, do homework and ask questions, with just their cohort. I was told that if my son stayed in his home school, the resource class teacher might be less available to him because of the number of other IEP cases, and the other children's more challenging needs. It's true that his GT/LD resource class is a quiet, working environment and the teacher has the time to help all 10 or so students.

Your child will be able to take all the advanced classes he is suited for, sometimes with surprising results. My son's elementary school had refused him entry into compacted math and not recommended him for IM in 6th grade, but a month into his 6th grade year at North Bethesda, his math teacher recommended he switch to IM. It was such a relief to know he was appreciated and understood! His old school had definitely lumped him into the intellectually-weak group.

Here's my only quibble: the program is not advanced enough, not to the level of the magnet middle schools. My son was wait-listed for the magnets, and we would have risked it despite the horrible commute and possibly very poor IEP accommodations had we had the chance. The difference is that magnet teachers have a lot of leeway in creating their own curriculum, and the students going there form a peer group, whereas teachers elsewhere need to stick to the general MCPS curriculum. My son's math teacher did offer them an exciting set of pattern problems at the beginning of the year, but declared that this was the only non-curriculum item she had time to do for the year. And the standard MCPS curriculum is nothing to write home about. But at least it's free

[Anonymous]

Forgot to tell you about entry into the program -

It's an IEP team decision. You get a say because you are part of the team, but you are in the minority.
The program director or someone else has to observe your child in his classroom, and then a decision is made based on that as well as his IQ scores, other evaluations, and academic record. The MCPS website for the GT/LD program indicates that the minimum IQ score or subscore has to be at least 120.

[Anonymous]

NP. By contrast, I have a student at a MS magnet w/ an IEP. DC is doing very well there. It is a bit of a struggle to get consistent accommodations; it seems like there is always 1 teacher a year who refuses and we have to sort it out by complaining. But, education is worth it. More challenging and interesting than regular classes.

I encouage kids with 504s and IEPs to apply, write specifically about wanting the challenge despite disability, and appeal if denied. Gifted and disabled kids have the right to have equal access to all the same advanced curriculum options as other non-disabled peers and they have a right to receive accommodations and special instruction in advanced programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So glad you asked, I just observed my son's classes this morning! My son is on year two of our foray into the GT/LD program at North Bethesda MS.

Your experience will vary depending on your child's specific needs. It's not perfect, but for us, it's a Godsend, because it was either that or some kind of private (I didn't even research, the prices were too astronomical). When I asked other parents about their experiences, prior to committing to this program, they all told me it had been (or was) wonderful for their child. To me this shows that the team organizing such a program has trained teachers and staff who are highly flexible and accommodating. Work closely with them, and they will do their best to help.

I am truly grateful that such a program exists. In my home country, they're just coming around to getting accommodations in public school for children with light special needs. Nothing for more affected children, and as for twice exceptional, I don't think people even know such a condition exists!

Here's how it works in practice: the GT/LD cohort is very small at every grade level, and they are assigned core classes taught by two teachers and populated by GT/LD students as well as by other students (who may or may not have been specially selected for that class based on their profile). In theory, both teachers should have a background in the subject matter, but in practice it doesn't always happen. For example, my son's math class has a para-educator who hands out material, but doesn't answer questions. His English class had two English teachers, on the other hand, and the difference in the teaching efficiency is visible. I suspect it's harder to get paras with math backgrounds than paras with humanities backgrounds!

The GT/LD students go about their school day like all the others, and have PE, and their electives, like the rest of the students. The only difference is that a daily resource class takes the place of one of their electives. Unlike other schools, this is a GT/LD-specific resource class, where students can complete tests, do homework and ask questions, with just their cohort. I was told that if my son stayed in his home school, the resource class teacher might be less available to him because of the number of other IEP cases, and the other children's more challenging needs. It's true that his GT/LD resource class is a quiet, working environment and the teacher has the time to help all 10 or so students.

Your child will be able to take all the advanced classes he is suited for, sometimes with surprising results. My son's elementary school had refused him entry into compacted math and not recommended him for IM in 6th grade, but a month into his 6th grade year at North Bethesda, his math teacher recommended he switch to IM. It was such a relief to know he was appreciated and understood! His old school had definitely lumped him into the intellectually-weak group.

Here's my only quibble: the program is not advanced enough, not to the level of the magnet middle schools. My son was wait-listed for the magnets, and we would have risked it despite the horrible commute and possibly very poor IEP accommodations had we had the chance. The difference is that magnet teachers have a lot of leeway in creating their own curriculum, and the students going there form a peer group, whereas teachers elsewhere need to stick to the general MCPS curriculum. My son's math teacher did offer them an exciting set of pattern problems at the beginning of the year, but declared that this was the only non-curriculum item she had time to do for the year. And the standard MCPS curriculum is nothing to write home about. But at least it's free

Thank you for the detailed information!

On paper, there is no doubt my child qualifies. But we're in DC now (with an IEP), so would need to go through the IEP process after school ends, when observation isn't possible. Your description of the second adult being a para with varying amounts of skill makes me nervous -- to move and then have my chid be supported in her area of weakness by only a spread-thin para would not be good.

[Anonymous]

I'm 22:00.

I don't think this needs to wait until the end of the school year, OP. Call the Office of Advanced Instruction in MCPS, or whatever they call themselves, and ask how it works for non-MCPS students.

As for the paras, yes, I agree that co-taught is sometimes in name only. It has not affected my son in any visible way, however. Last year when he was switched math classes mid-year, they could not place him in co-taught IM math class, since there wasn't one at the same time as his other math class, so he spent the rest of the year doing IM math he hadn't prepared for, in a regular class with just one teacher, and somehow survived.

I think what my son gets out of the GT/LD are:
1. Teachers who understand him.
2. The valuable extra time in resource class, because he works very slowly.

My bottom line is - the GT/LD is better than the alternative!

[Anonymous]

Does the Tilden Asperger program offer advanced curriculum? What is the difference betweent the Asperger program and the GT/LD? Specifically, for higher than 120 IQ's with a need for more in-depth curriculum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the Tilden Asperger program offer advanced curriculum? What is the difference betweent the Asperger program and the GT/LD? Specifically, for higher than 120 IQ's with a need for more in-depth curriculum?

OP here. My advocate thought the GTLD program would be a better fit for my child because she doesn't have any externalizing behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the Tilden Asperger program offer advanced curriculum? What is the difference betweent the Asperger program and the GT/LD? Specifically, for higher than 120 IQ's with a need for more in-depth curriculum?

Don't know about the content, but right off the bat, the GT/LD serves a plurality of needs. Some kids have physical and neurological challenges, others have ADHD, Asperger's, still others have severe anxiety, etc...
It serves anyone who has a higher IQ but also an IEP. I would assume the Asperger's program offers "just" the standard advanced classes that the middle school itself provides, but it may also have pull-outs to specifically address Aspie needs.

Basically if our kids didn't get into the magnets or can't stay there because their special needs aren't being properly addressed, then they're stuck with the regular advanced classes.

And as always, I remind myself that it could be worse

[Anonymous]

"Does the Tilden Asperger program offer advanced curriculum? What is the difference betweent the Asperger program and the GT/LD? Specifically, for higher than 120 IQ's with a need for more in-depth curriculum?"

The North Bethesda team said at back to school night that their GT/LD kids mostly have issues with written expression and executive functioning (aka ADHD). Some of the kids also have other things going on, like anxiety or Aspergers. As I understand, the Tilden program is more for kids with Aspergers only, or at least whose primary challenge is the autism.

And fwiw, it's not the perfect GTLD program. As PP notes, it follows the traditional MCPS curriculum. So not a whole lot of emphasis on feeding the gifted side of things (my 135 IQ kid is bored in several classes). But better than any alternatives that we could find, public or private. (My kid would not have done well in a traditional GT center where the kids are more achievement oriented than gifted and supports are perhaps less reliable.) And I do think that its great that most of the teachers understand that these kids are different and that they are with a group of peers who are like them, so they don't feel so alone and different. And as a parent, its great not to have teachers and administrators look at me like I'm crazy when I discuss my kid's learning profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So glad you asked, I just observed my son's classes this morning! My son is on year two of our foray into the GT/LD program at North Bethesda MS.

Your experience will vary depending on your child's specific needs. It's not perfect, but for us, it's a Godsend, because it was either that or some kind of private (I didn't even research, the prices were too astronomical). When I asked other parents about their experiences, prior to committing to this program, they all told me it had been (or was) wonderful for their child. To me this shows that the team organizing such a program has trained teachers and staff who are highly flexible and accommodating. Work closely with them, and they will do their best to help.

I am truly grateful that such a program exists. In my home country, they're just coming around to getting accommodations in public school for children with light special needs. Nothing for more affected children, and as for twice exceptional, I don't think people even know such a condition exists!

Here's how it works in practice: the GT/LD cohort is very small at every grade level, and they are assigned core classes taught by two teachers and populated by GT/LD students as well as by other students (who may or may not have been specially selected for that class based on their profile). In theory, both teachers should have a background in the subject matter, but in practice it doesn't always happen. For example, my son's math class has a para-educator who hands out material, but doesn't answer questions. His English class had two English teachers, on the other hand, and the difference in the teaching efficiency is visible. I suspect it's harder to get paras with math backgrounds than paras with humanities backgrounds!

The GT/LD students go about their school day like all the others, and have PE, and their electives, like the rest of the students. The only difference is that a daily resource class takes the place of one of their electives. Unlike other schools, this is a GT/LD-specific resource class, where students can complete tests, do homework and ask questions, with just their cohort. I was told that if my son stayed in his home school, the resource class teacher might be less available to him because of the number of other IEP cases, and the other children's more challenging needs. It's true that his GT/LD resource class is a quiet, working environment and the teacher has the time to help all 10 or so students.

Your child will be able to take all the advanced classes he is suited for, sometimes with surprising results. My son's elementary school had refused him entry into compacted math and not recommended him for IM in 6th grade, but a month into his 6th grade year at North Bethesda, his math teacher recommended he switch to IM. It was such a relief to know he was appreciated and understood! His old school had definitely lumped him into the intellectually-weak group.

Here's my only quibble: the program is not advanced enough, not to the level of the magnet middle schools. My son was wait-listed for the magnets, and we would have risked it despite the horrible commute and possibly very poor IEP accommodations had we had the chance. The difference is that magnet teachers have a lot of leeway in creating their own curriculum, and the students going there form a peer group, whereas teachers elsewhere need to stick to the general MCPS curriculum. My son's math teacher did offer them an exciting set of pattern problems at the beginning of the year, but declared that this was the only non-curriculum item she had time to do for the year. And the standard MCPS curriculum is nothing to write home about. But at least it's free

I'm glad it's been so successful for your son. Based on the standards you described, my son would have met the criteria but it was never ever mentioned to us by our IEP team. We ended up in private paid by grandparents because we couldn't afford it. I'm jealous!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. By contrast, I have a student at a MS magnet w/ an IEP. DC is doing very well there. It is a bit of a struggle to get consistent accommodations; it seems like there is always 1 teacher a year who refuses and we have to sort it out by complaining. But, education is worth it. More challenging and interesting than regular classes.

I encouage kids with 504s and IEPs to apply, write specifically about wanting the challenge despite disability, and appeal if denied. Gifted and disabled kids have the right to have equal access to all the same advanced curriculum options as other non-disabled peers and they have a right to receive accommodations and special instruction in advanced programs.

I agree 100%! DC is in a middle school magnet with an IEP. DC is in advanced classes and is supported through his IEP. I also encourage GTLD student to apply to magnets. It upsets me when I hear that the GTLD schools really do not provide enrichment so how on earth is that a "gifted and talented" program??