American Students Lagging in Math and Science

[Anonymous]

So what are these other countries doing right that we aren't?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/25/students.science.math/index.html

[Anonymous]

They aren't using the Everyday Math curriculum.
They are doing intense Math drills, everyday.
They are paying their teachers more.

[Anonymous]

I'm from South America and back home subjects like Physics, Chemistry, Biology and all levels of Math are MANDATORY since middle school.
When I took the admission's test to school here the testing center guy was so amazed with the results he even asked if I was looking to major in Math - no thanks, I was only an average student in math back home
I could not believe when a professor the other day was explaining the action of a drug on our system and he used a graph and the notes had some values on standard deviation. In a class of 60 people - gen eds class - only me and another international student knew what he was talking about. The Dr had to stop his lecture and pull out some cool explanations from google right there to explain all 58 people what it was. He was awesome by the way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They aren't using the Everyday Math curriculum.
They are doing intense Math drills, everyday.
They are paying their teachers more.

Not true.
Your kids' knowledge doesn't depend on my pay.

Back home teachers earn the equivalent to US$ 4.00/hour and no benefits besides partially paid vacation.
For you to have an idea on cost of life a #1 at McDonalds costs 4 hours of a teacher's work. A cheap pre-paid cell phone costs a month's worth of full time hours and a bus ride to work - local public transportation - costs 1 hour of the teacher's work.

Nope, not easy!

[Anonymous]

hmm. Check out the thread " Genius kid: put me in my place" (paraphrasing a bit the title). Anyway, about half way through there are comments that they would rather their kid be happy than supersmart or words to that effect. Of course it is possible to be both. I think many parents would rather their kids be popular than excel, especially if that meant excelling at math or at science. There was another recent thread about geeks or nerds at top high schools - I cannot believe adults are using those terms about children. In this society, it is ok for kids to excel at sports or music or art and we lavish praise on those kids but kids that are good and interested in science are mocked, even by adults.

[Anonymous]

Maybe because secondary education is free and mandatory and there are other options seen as available to those who do not excel in math and science here in the US. In other countries, excelling in those subjects have real meaning for a chance to continue studying and the opportunity to get a good job. Many of the incoming students in math and science programs in American colleges are from poor families from countries where education is truly only the real opportunity to get out of poverty for the student and his or her family.

[Anonymous]

It's true that American children lag behind in Math and Science, but there's no equivalent comparison of writing skills, language skills or literature, because there's no universal language for these.

I taught in a Japanese high school for two years after college. While the students may learn math and science better, one of the reasons is that they're not supposed to ask questions or interrupt the teacher in class, and everything is taught in a lecture style that is much more structured than we have in the US. That makes it easier to teach math and science because there's an exact answer.

I would bet that Japanese students writing skills are worse than American students of the same age or grade though. Japanese students are not taught to write critically or defend and argument as early as American students are. When I would edit the essays of the Japanese students, their writing, even when translated, was atrocious.

Just saying that I think American students learn independent and critical thought and writing a bit better than students in some other countries, but there's no universal assessment for such skills.

[Anonymous]

Japan didn't participate in the reading literacy equivalent (PIRLS 2006), but other countries that did well in the math/science one (Singapore, Hong Kong) also performed better than the US in reading literacy (the test is translated). The US results in reading literacy (4th grade) were not great.

Perhaps too much American history in the curriculum ... ?

[Anonymous]

I agree with the independent thinking being very culturally American. That has helped the US to lead the world in terms of innovation. US companies used to try to copy the Japanese way of doing business and corporate culture in hopes of gaining an edge. But they realized that it didn't work because Americans tend to see themselves as individuals rather than part of the group. It goes both ways though, no loyalty but no job security either.

[Anonymous]

its also not pushed as much. i'm sure if you as parents make your child take all the right classes, your child will do well in math/science. make it a priority for their education. my parents did and i was a physics major in college (and a woman.

[Anonymous]

Probably because a good education is often not free in other countries, and therefore is valued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably because a good education is often not free in other countries, and therefore is valued.

not true. europeans do much better in high school math/science and their education is free. now their colleges on the other hand are not as good as ours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably because a good education is often not free in other countries, and therefore is valued.

not true. europeans do much better in high school math/science and their education is free. now their colleges on the other hand are not as good as ours.

before getting yourself too excited, go check out the stats on how many european children attend independant schools. Also, for the kids who fall behind, they are not even counted in these stats, because they are ushered off to vocational programs-Estonia anyone? In GB for example, parents are practically falling over themselves to join a "church" that often has a school attached (way better than the public options) just to get their kids a better education.

If you look at India and Japan who have excellent Math and Science scores, the parents are paying for their schooling and the students are subject to intensive entrance exams with the families putting massive amounts of pressure on the kids to get into the best schools.

I'm sorry, but if something is "free" it often is not valued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:its also not pushed as much. i'm sure if you as parents make your child take all the right classes, your child will do well in math/science. make it a priority for their education. my parents did and i was a physics major in college (and a woman.

How did you feel at the time, with your parents' pressuring you to take certain classes?

I do want to encourage math and science for my kids, but don't want to be a dictator, either.

[Anonymous]

Not 15:04 but some of the most responsible, self motivated people I know are that way because they grew up in households where they were held accountable for themselves. No one had to push them to study or do well in school. If they screwed around, they knew it was all on them.