If you were a teacher, would you teach at a private or public school?

[Anonymous]

I know a teacher that taught in a DC area private school and has since moved to a publc school. Her stories surprised me. Many of her students acted up in class and she was unable to discipline them because the headmaster did not want the parents to get upset! The students (some-not all) had a "i don't care because I am rich" attitude and when she did meet with the parents, they had the same attitude and she was frequently blamed for any aggression issues. She mentioned that the other teachers dealt with the same problems and many of them just refused to deal with these kids anymore. Turnover was high since the teacher's expections were not met and they weren't supported by their employer or the parents. What was interesting: the students that came from non-wealty parents were much more serious about their education and she felt awful that the parents weren't getting what they thought they were paying for. If you are making sacrifes to send a child to private school with the expectation that they will be in a better learning environment, wouldn't you be upset that you weren't getting it. She was forbidden to bring these stuations up with the parents. So, she left and so did many others.

Now she teaches at a Montgomery County public school and she deals with the similar student issues where the child feels that they have a certain entitlement to act out. She has more support from the principle to discipline appropriately but the parents are just as bad as the private school ones. Who does she and her peers blame for this? Parents.

If the parents trusted her to do what was right for the child to enable him/her to learn and that includes appropriate, parent supported discipline, then she wouldn't have to spend her day trying to be politically correct and not offend any of her disruptive students while she tried to teach them how to add.

[Anonymous]

There was a study that recently came out that said the reason most teachers burn out is not due to the students, but due to the parents.

Here is a link:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/teacher-burnout-blame-the-parents/index.html?ex=1357016400&en=208b0f78ef0cc049&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Anonymous]

I can see the parent aspect as a piece of teacher burnout. It's often true that once teachers meet some parents, observable behaviors of their kids totally make sense..."Ahhhhh....you're Johnny's mom/dad." I remember a parent phone call from last year...Called mom (via an interpreter) to inform her that her DS had stolen from the classroom (something off my desk...apparently many times before). Mom's response was, "What did he take?" When she was informed that it was a pack of gum, her reponse was something more or less like, "It was just a pack of gum." Then she hung up the phone. I have many more stories I could share...

The burnout comes from other areas as well. It seems that there is always "one more thing" teachers are being asked to do...teach an after school club (no compensation), be a mentor to a student teacher (for the entire year...hours and hours of work), mandatory after school meetings, collect data to show proof of blah-blah-blah, implement a particular program at your grade level (can't go to the training for this program b/c of budget freezes...but we'll give you a manual... you can figure it out...by the way, collect some more data to show how implementing this program has positively impacted student achievement...)...State Testing is coming up in the Spring..."prepare those kids for the test"....Ahhhhh the joys of teaching these days!

[Anonymous]

I am a private school teacher and HATE it. Most of the kids I teach could care less that they are there and could care less about their peers and teachers. The parents I have met are pleasant enough but very clueless about their kids demeanors outside of the home. I hear public school students aren't better.

[Anonymous]

The Next Survivor


Have you heard about the next planned Survivor show?

6 CEOs (3 male - 3 female) will be dropped in an elementary school classroom for 6 weeks. Each CEO will be provided with a copy of their school district's curriculum, and a class of 28 students. Each class will have five learning-disabled children, three with A.D.H.D., and two who speak limited English. Three will be labeled as severe behavior problems. One or two will be gifted. No less than 4 will be native speakers of English who are reading 3 grade levels below the one they are in.

Each CEO must complete lesson plans at least 3 days in advance with annotations for curriculum objectives and modify, organize, or create materials accordingly. They will be required to teach students, handle misconduct, implement technology, document attendance, write referrals, correct homework, make bulletin boards, compute grades, complete report cards, document benchmarks, communicate with parents, bandage and document injuries, defend teaching technique and books chosen from extremists of all vantage points, and arrange and conduct parent conferences. They must also supervise recess and breakfast, monitor the hallways, and load children into cars and/or buses every afternoon. In addition, they will complete drills for fire, tornadoes, shooting attacks, and bomb threats. They must attend workshops (100 hours), faculty meetings, union meetings, and curriculum development meetings. They must also tutor those students who are behind and strive to get their 2 non-English speaking children proficient enough to take the Terra Nova, EPA, CAT or End of Course tests, which they will be required to take whether they can read the tests or not.

If they are sick or having a bad day, they must not let it show. Each day they must incorporate reading, writing, math, science, technology, Spanish language, social studies and multicultural tolerance into the program. They must maintain discipline and provide an educationally stimulating environment, at each child's instructional level, at all times. The CEOs will only have access to the golf course on the weekends, but only after papers have been graded, assignments modified for concepts missed, and reteaching opportunities addressed. On their new salary they will not be able to afford it anyway.

There will be no access to vendors who want to take them out to lunch, and lunch will be limited to 20 minutes, while supervising students who are going through the lunch line, eating (and throwing food or throwing up). On the rare days when they do not have recess duty, the CEOs will be permitted to use the staff restroom as long as another survival candidate is supervising their class. They will be provided with two 40-minute planning periods per week while their students are at specials. If the copier is operable, they may make copies of necessary materials at this time. The business people must continually advance their education on their own time and pay for this advanced training themselves. This can be accomplished by moonlighting at a second job or marrying someone with money.

The winner will be allowed to return to his or her corporate job.

[Anonymous]

What about the kids from the wealthy public schools? Do they have a negative attitude as well? I grew up in a very wealthy, New England suburb - schools had the highest SAT's scores, 99% kids to 4 year college, etc. You still had that "I'm rich and I don't care" attitude. I think it's more of a socioeconomic stereotype, than anything.
I say stereotype because I think you can find examples of all types in all settings. I am sure for every spoiled, rich kid at a private school there is a decent, hardworking ambitious kid - and the same for the public schools.
I think we should all focus our energy on worrying about those who are much less-fortunate to even consider any options.

[Anonymous]

obviously the survivor show is a joke to make a point...

[mebrown]

I am a public school teacher and that is where I will stay. The problems out there are systematic and cannot be narrowed to private or public. The demographics of schools everywhere are changing, which affects the school climate. Everyone wants to point fingers as to who should be accountable which helps no one, especially not the students. I have found that education, like many other things, is like a pendulum and it at an extreme end. It will eventually come back to center. Until that happens I would recommend to all parents to be informed about the school your child attends and be a parent first and foremost. Don't look to the school system to raise your children. Don't look to blame the schools when something goes wrong with child...hold your own child accountable when they need to be. Become involved and work with your school as a team not against it as an enemy.

[Anonymous]

Also, my understanding is that all public and all private schools are not equal. In some private schools, teachers have little flexibility and are basically required to implement a particular pre-designed curriculum and to meet certain goals set by someone within the school administration for their class. I have heard of teachers who have left very prestigous schools in DC because of this constraining environment. On the other hand, this may be a great place for younger teachers who may stay to learn and then either leave if they want to spread their wings or not want to lose the compensation.

As for poor behavior. I think it exists everywhere -- it is the luck of the draw. Though I agree that it is not the teacher's responsiblity to raise the kids neither is it really the parent's responsibility to discipline the child for problems she or he has at school. I have had teachers contact me because my daughter is not turning in her HW. Well, if she isn't doing that then let her know she is going to get a bad grade or put up a chart in the classroom showing which child is turning in HW and which is not. I've also been called because my son has been disrupting other kids in class. Well, the teacher should deal with it since by running to the parent s/he is disempowering herself giving the kid the message, "I can't control you so I'm going to tell your mom and dad". The kid has won that round in this case! I don't mind being informed and being asked to discuss these issues with my child, but I think the teachers really have to show the kids that they are setting the rules in class, that they will enforce them, and that if you don't follow the rules their are predetermined consequences that will be given each and every time a transgression takes place.

My mom who used to be teacher would set the first month aside to make sure the kids understood the rules and got used to following them. She knew they were going to be tested and she was ready to enforce them. The rest of the year would then go very smoothly. She was voted as the best teacher in her school.

[maynie]

Anonymous wrote:Also, my understanding is that all public and all private schools are not equal. In some private schools, teachers have little flexibility and are basically required to implement a particular pre-designed curriculum and to meet certain goals set by someone within the school administration for their class. I have heard of teachers who have left very prestigous schools in DC because of this constraining environment. On the other hand, this may be a great place for younger teachers who may stay to learn and then either leave if they want to spread their wings or not want to lose the compensation.

As for poor behavior. I think it exists everywhere -- it is the luck of the draw. Though I agree that it is not the teacher's responsiblity to raise the kids neither is it really the parent's responsibility to discipline the child for problems she or he has at school. I have had teachers contact me because my daughter is not turning in her HW. Well, if she isn't doing that then let her know she is going to get a bad grade or put up a chart in the classroom showing which child is turning in HW and which is not. I've also been called because my son has been disrupting other kids in class. Well, the teacher should deal with it since by running to the parent s/he is disempowering herself giving the kid the message, "I can't control you so I'm going to tell your mom and dad". The kid has won that round in this case! I don't mind being informed and being asked to discuss these issues with my child, but I think the teachers really have to show the kids that they are setting the rules in class, that they will enforce them, and that if you don't follow the rules their are predetermined consequences that will be given each and every time a transgression takes place.

My mom who used to be teacher would set the first month aside to make sure the kids understood the rules and got used to following them. She knew they were going to be tested and she was ready to enforce them. The rest of the year would then go very smoothly. She was voted as the best teacher in her school.

I don't have a school age child so I'm curious if this is the general thinking of most parents. My first thought was that schools have rules and if they are broken there should be consequences. But you have just that one child to worry about (or even several children) while the teacher has 20+. It just seems odd to say it's not your problem when your child is not doing what they're supposed to in school. How does that help your child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, my understanding is that all public and all private schools are not equal. In some private schools, teachers have little flexibility and are basically required to implement a particular pre-designed curriculum and to meet certain goals set by someone within the school administration for their class. I have heard of teachers who have left very prestigous schools in DC because of this constraining environment. On the other hand, this may be a great place for younger teachers who may stay to learn and then either leave if they want to spread their wings or not want to lose the compensation.

As for poor behavior. I think it exists everywhere -- it is the luck of the draw. Though I agree that it is not the teacher's responsiblity to raise the kids neither is it really the parent's responsibility to discipline the child for problems she or he has at school. I have had teachers contact me because my daughter is not turning in her HW. Well, if she isn't doing that then let her know she is going to get a bad grade or put up a chart in the classroom showing which child is turning in HW and which is not. I've also been called because my son has been disrupting other kids in class. Well, the teacher should deal with it since by running to the parent s/he is disempowering herself giving the kid the message, "I can't control you so I'm going to tell your mom and dad". The kid has won that round in this case! I don't mind being informed and being asked to discuss these issues with my child, but I think the teachers really have to show the kids that they are setting the rules in class, that they will enforce them, and that if you don't follow the rules their are predetermined consequences that will be given each and every time a transgression takes place.

My mom who used to be teacher would set the first month aside to make sure the kids understood the rules and got used to following them. She knew they were going to be tested and she was ready to enforce them. The rest of the year would then go very smoothly. She was voted as the best teacher in her school.

This is the reason why many teachers get so frustrated. Most teachers do have consequences for student behavior, but sometimes there is really so much they do in the classroom. I am a teacher in a public high school and I have a class this year with probably about 8 students (all boys) out of 21 who continually misbehave, goof off, and generally see school as a place to have fun. Some of them are diplomats' kids and are only here for a year or two, so they really don't care about school. We have sent them out of class, sent them to administrators, suspended them, given them detention. They continue to misbehave. I think one of the biggest problems with many of these students is that we can't seem to get their parents involved. We have called, sent letters home, everything short of showing up on their doorstep. If we do manage to contact the parents, they seem at a loss as to what to do, and are hesitant to give their kids consequences for their behavior in school. It is so frustrating to me! To the parent who thinks it is the job of the teacher to just "deal with it in class" and not go "running to the parents", what exactly do you suggest we do to control these students? I love teaching for the most part and it is something I chose to do, but it is the hardest job I have ever done. We are all parents and know how hard that is - think about teaching as being a parent to 20+ children at one time, all from different backgrounds, with different rules and experiences. Then imagine several of these children continually acting up while you are trying to teach and keep the other children involved and on task with whatever they are doing. Until you are actually in a classroom, I don't think anyone has any idea how hard it is to keep a class full of students on task, entertained (because that is what many students expect these days), and of course learning, so they can pass the class. Of course we have rules and we try to enforce them, but we do need the parents' help to teach their children to respect teachers and value learning no matter how boring it might be sometimes. I see this less and less the more years I teach and it is so sad to me as a teacher, and sometimes I really worry about the future of this country.

[Anonymous]

I think my earlier EM from last night was misunderstood. I am a very involved parent. I communicate with the teachers regularly, we call them at home (since they have been nice enough to give the class their phone numbers), we are in commuication by email several times per month. My husband and I keep tabs on our children in terms of how they are doing, whether they are turning their HW, are they being respectful, etc. So of course I'm not trying to get the teachers to raise my kids, but the teachers have a very important role in imposing discipline.

My son is a wonderful little boy but his behavior is not consistently stellar. My son is the type that likes to test limits to make sure the attending adult is there to tell him to back off and remember that s/he is in control and not my child. Is that really surprising for an energetic boy? Okay, there are some kids who are very compliant and hate to even get a small reprimand from the teacher, then there are others like my son -- who need to be respectfully told they have crossed a line and they can't get away with it. The tigher the limit, the better in my opinion. Yes, I know teachers have 20 kids to look after, but if a child is mishaving enough to get the attention of the teacher, it is important to react in an appropriate manner, calmly and with consistency.

Children are in school 7 hours each day -- so teachers do have an important role in molding their characters. I think there are a lot of techniques out there that work with kids of all personality types. I find teachers who are young don't know how to handle these energetic kids -- they either ignore little things and when the little things get out of hand they are surprised and need the dean or principal to intervene. As for more experienced teacher, I have found that the best employ a variety of methods to engage the child and then to bring him into their world of rules and modes of behavior -- and the children then comply. My son has had teachers who have been strict but engaging and he has thrived in that environment once he made sure that the limits were consistently there. As for some other teachers, he has been able to get them to overlook his small misdeeds until they become surprised that he becomes a bit louder to get their attention and then they're upset.

I'm of course making the situation more dramatic than it is, but I feel very strongly that it is essential that all adults consistently apply reasonably high standards to the children under their care and that consequences are applied consistently. The consequences don't need to be big, but just applied again and again and again. I have certain standards that I expect from my son's friends when they come over -- so even when there are 5 kids, they still have to follow certain rules of conduct.