Can you PGS-test frozen embryos that were not fertilised with ICSI?

[Anonymous]

I have three frozen embryos that were not created using ICSI. Can they be retroactively PGS tested despite not being ICSI? Not sure I would even want to do this as would be anxious about damaging them in the thaw, biopsy, refreeze process, but just curious.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I did this. Had 8 blasts frozen after my first child, all frozen without testing. No ICSI. thawed them all and PGS tested. ICSI is utterly irrelevant to PGS testing. they do a trophodecterm biopsy on a blast for PGS. ICSI is done when the egg and sperm are 1 cell each. PGS is done when the blast is 5 days, many many cells, and it's done on the trophodecterm

[Anonymous]

Yes, OP, one can certainly do this. But PP is not completely right to say it's "totally irrelevant." At my clinic I was told that if you want to do PGS you have to do ICSI because if you don't, there's a chance that genetic material from a different sperm that was in the dish with the egg will contaminate the ultimate embryo. So PGS without having done ICSI would still be highly accurate, but not quite as reliable as otherwise - I don't know the percentages. PGS under any circumstance is not a guarantee of genetic normalcy though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, OP, one can certainly do this. But PP is not completely right to say it's "totally irrelevant." At my clinic I was told that if you want to do PGS you have to do ICSI because if you don't, there's a chance that genetic material from a different sperm that was in the dish with the egg will contaminate the ultimate embryo. So PGS without having done ICSI would still be highly accurate, but not quite as reliable as otherwise - I don't know the percentages. PGS under any circumstance is not a guarantee of genetic normalcy though.

CCRM told me this too. My previous clinic (that did PGS without ICSI) never mentioned it and disagreed. Not sure who knows best but I would tend to believe CCRM.

[Anonymous]

OP here - many thanks for the helpful replies.

PP 17:34, that's what my clinic told me as well. We did PGS testing with our second fresh cycle with ICSI and got two normals, but neither took (got two chemicals) so my experience would corroborate that it can't be a guarantee of normalcy. We didn't bother with ICSI or PGS for cost reasons on our third round, but I was wondering whether we still have that PGS option open to us.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP, 17:34 here. Yes, I think the short answer is yes you do it. The bigger question in my mind is whether you want to thaw and refreeze. If they came back normal then you can be highly confident. But sadly as you know, that doesnt always mean the pregnancy will work out. Have you been tested for any other issues? It may not be the embryo, of course. BTW I'm right there with you and my 4 embryos are frozen and we didn't do PGS. How old were you when those embryos were frozen? If younger than 35, not all clinics recommend testing since most (statistically) should be good.

[Anonymous]

My RE and the lab director at Dominion said the results would not be good if ICSI wasn't done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - many thanks for the helpful replies.

PP 17:34, that's what my clinic told me as well. We did PGS testing with our second fresh cycle with ICSI and got two normals, but neither took (got two chemicals) so my experience would corroborate that it can't be a guarantee of normalcy. We didn't bother with ICSI or PGS for cost reasons on our third round, but I was wondering whether we still have that PGS option open to us.

Just because your PGS normals didnt take doesn't mean they're not normal. There are a lot of other reasons a PGS normal embryo can cause a chemical pregnancy. Signed, someone who had 3 chemical pregnancies with PGS normal embryos, but also conceived 2 times with PGS normal embryos

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, OP, one can certainly do this. But PP is not completely right to say it's "totally irrelevant." At my clinic I was told that if you want to do PGS you have to do ICSI because if you don't, there's a chance that genetic material from a different sperm that was in the dish with the egg will contaminate the ultimate embryo. So PGS without having done ICSI would still be highly accurate, but not quite as reliable as otherwise - I don't know the percentages. PGS under any circumstance is not a guarantee of genetic normalcy though.

16:41 irrelevant poster. Maybe it depends on the lab - I had Reprogenetics which did Next Generation Sequencing, and ICSI was definitely not required.

[Anonymous]

PGS testing is now different and better from what it was 2 years ago. Ask your clinic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PGS testing is now different and better from what it was 2 years ago. Ask your clinic.

16:41 poster- yes, my recent testing was NGS testing, which can pick up mosaicism and is more accurate. my prior testing was also on non ICSI embryos, but it was array CGH.

[Anonymous]

PP 17:24, did they ever find out the cause of the chemicals you had with PGS normals?

PP 17:34, I was 36 when I did the PGS testing round - only got two but they were both normals. 37 when I did the fresh untested round at a different clinic. Just pondering about the untested frozen ones. I have been tested for the standard blood clotting stuff etc and all came back normal.
Good luck with your round - I really hope you get a good result.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, should have said it's OP. Thank you everyone. Good to know the options, grateful for your responses!

[Anonymous]

PP here who had PGS done without ICSI- just asked my RE about this, because this thread worried me. He said that error rates at my clinic without ICSI are lower than error rates at other clinics that require ICSI, and therefore they have no reason to require unnecessary costly procedures.

[Anonymous]

PP 11.29, what clinic are you at? Just curious. (OP here).