Ideal Size of Deal MS and Wilson HS?

[Anonymous]

Everyone talks about the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson.

Q: Objectively, what is the ideal enrollment of these schools?

I'm assuming the answer takes into account the capacity of the facilities and optimization of programming, class size, etc.

[Anonymous]

Just under building capacity so there is room to account for the transiency of DC and projected growth.

[Anonymous]

Capacity is listed in the below docs. Link to the 16-17 audit with current enrollment is here: https://osse.dc.gov/node/1223876

Wilson https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Wilson.pdf

Deal
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Deal.pdf

Hardy
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Hardy.pdf

[Anonymous]

Wilson

capacity 1600
enrollment 1749

2017 graduating 378, entering 472 from Deal, 137 from Hardy
2018 Net increase: 231 = 1980 (380 students too many).

2018 graduating 385, entering 466 from Deal, 107 from Hardy
2019 net increase: 188 = 2168 (568 students too many)

2019 graduating 454, entering 538 from Deal, 130 from Hardy
2020 net increase 214 = 2382 (782 students too many).

And the classes coming up from ES are bigger still -- two of the largest feeders just had capacity increased by over 100 students each.

Remember that capacity is about number of classrooms, number of people who can fit in common spaces, number of offices available for staff to handle the needs of the student body. An increase of 782 students (a group larger than most DC schools) requires the equivalent of adding nearly a full staff for a high school. So in the building, it is not just a matter of more teen bodies blocking the hallways, but more adult teachers and staff too. And the wear and tear on an overcrowded facility happens very quickly.

This really is nuts when you consider that Wilson is presently 50% OOB, Deal is 37% OOB, and Hardy is 80% OOB (and enrollment at 57% of capacity).

What if Hardy became a 6-12 school like private schools are? The advanced middle schoolers would have instant access to higher level classes.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know the plan around the expected impact of switching Eaton to Hardy (from Deal) next year... that would theoretically be a shift of 70ish students out of Deal per class & more IB into Hardy quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Capacity is listed in the below docs. Link to the 16-17 audit with current enrollment is here: https://osse.dc.gov/node/1223876

Wilson (1600 capacity in 2013-14)
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Wilson.pdf

Deal (1200 capacity in 2013-14)
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Deal.pdf

Hardy
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Hardy.pdf

And here are capacity figures DCPS calculated in 2002-03 ... http://www.21csf.org/csf-home/DocUploads/DataShop/DS_143.pdf

Wilson = 1431 building capacity
Deal = 964 building capacity

I know Wilson went through a modernization program in 2011, so maybe that explains the 12% capacity increase DCPS gave it before 2013. Did Deal get any significant expansion in the 10 years between 2003 and 2013, to explain the 24% capacity bump it received?

According to this document from 2015 - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4tLyP97rUAhWBXyYKHUZpBRsQFghlMAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwilsonhs.org%2Fourpages%2Fauto%2F2014%2F10%2F31%2F50465841%2FLSAT%2520Meeting%2520Minutes_2015_02_19.docx&usg=AFQjCNHxgzUEiL-sCFbhC4pW7VhOKArj0w&sig2=IpDTD4qr6lMS2u24_twlaA - "Original specifications for Wilson were for 1550 students [Is this after the 2011 modernization?], however space was reconfigured to increase building capacity at 1750; accommodating 1808 is a problem. 90% classrooms are utilized. The spaces that could be opened for classroom space are fully utilized – the 10% remaining couldn’t be used for classrooms."

According to this page from 2015, Deal has a permanent capacity of 1370, plus "portable" capacity of 200 more. Wilson has a permanent capacity of 1700. https://github.com/codefordc/school-modernization/blob/master/InputData/DCPS%20Building%20Condition%20Dat%20(2-Table%201.csv

As an aside, here is a fascinating report from around 2006, which describes how DCPS was not making use of many buildings due to underenrollment. Interesting to compare what was going on then with what we see now.
http://www.narpac.org/PEF.HTM
http://www.narpac.org/PEFDOWN.HTM

[Anonymous]

For perspective, the excess number of students at Wilson will be greater than the total enrollment at every other DCPS except for CHEC and by a hair Eastern and Cardozo, and of course Deal. So not only is Wilson the largest school by far, there are in fact enough extra kids to fill another school based on DC standards.

[Anonymous]

If we are serious about making Wilson the best school in North America, then no more than 20 students per classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wilson

capacity 1600
enrollment 1749

2017 graduating 378, entering 472 from Deal, 137 from Hardy
2018 Net increase: 231 = 1980 (380 students too many).

2018 graduating 385, entering 466 from Deal, 107 from Hardy
2019 net increase: 188 = 2168 (568 students too many)

2019 graduating 454, entering 538 from Deal, 130 from Hardy
2020 net increase 214 = 2382 (782 students too many).

And the classes coming up from ES are bigger still -- two of the largest feeders just had capacity increased by over 100 students each.

Remember that capacity is about number of classrooms, number of people who can fit in common spaces, number of offices available for staff to handle the needs of the student body. An increase of 782 students (a group larger than most DC schools) requires the equivalent of adding nearly a full staff for a high school. So in the building, it is not just a matter of more teen bodies blocking the hallways, but more adult teachers and staff too. And the wear and tear on an overcrowded facility happens very quickly.

This really is nuts when you consider that Wilson is presently 50% OOB, Deal is 37% OOB, and Hardy is 80% OOB (and enrollment at 57% of capacity).

What if Hardy became a 6-12 school like private schools are? The advanced middle schoolers would have instant access to higher level classes.

Oooh, that is a really interesting idea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know the plan around the expected impact of switching Eaton to Hardy (from Deal) next year... that would theoretically be a shift of 70ish students out of Deal per class & more IB into Hardy quickly.

Unfortunately, even with the Eaton switch to Deal, there is still a lot of leakage in the pipeline. For example, the Hearst principal seems incapable of understanding that the lower grades will fill with 100% IB students and continues to let in 5-6 OOB students each year over the summer leading to overcrowding at the ES level. First year, maybe honest mistake. Second year, not so much. Makes you wonder if central office is applying pressure. Similar is happening elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wilson

capacity 1600
enrollment 1749

2017 graduating 378, entering 472 from Deal, 137 from Hardy
2018 Net increase: 231 = 1980 (380 students too many).

2018 graduating 385, entering 466 from Deal, 107 from Hardy
2019 net increase: 188 = 2168 (568 students too many)

2019 graduating 454, entering 538 from Deal, 130 from Hardy
2020 net increase 214 = 2382 (782 students too many).

And the classes coming up from ES are bigger still -- two of the largest feeders just had capacity increased by over 100 students each.

Remember that capacity is about number of classrooms, number of people who can fit in common spaces, number of offices available for staff to handle the needs of the student body. An increase of 782 students (a group larger than most DC schools) requires the equivalent of adding nearly a full staff for a high school. So in the building, it is not just a matter of more teen bodies blocking the hallways, but more adult teachers and staff too. And the wear and tear on an overcrowded facility happens very quickly.

This really is nuts when you consider that Wilson is presently 50% OOB, Deal is 37% OOB, and Hardy is 80% OOB (and enrollment at 57% of capacity).

What if Hardy became a 6-12 school like private schools are? The advanced middle schoolers would have instant access to higher level classes.

Where are you "entering" numbers coming from. Are you simply taking the cumulative grade sizes from the Wilson feeders? If so, that's way off because plenty of kids peel off for privates for high school. I'm pretty sure we will as will many of our friends' kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Capacity is listed in the below docs. Link to the 16-17 audit with current enrollment is here: https://osse.dc.gov/node/1223876

Wilson (1600 capacity in 2013-14)
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Wilson.pdf

Deal (1200 capacity in 2013-14)
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Deal.pdf

Hardy
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Hardy.pdf

And here are capacity figures DCPS calculated in 2002-03 ... http://www.21csf.org/csf-home/DocUploads/DataShop/DS_143.pdf

Wilson = 1431 building capacity
Deal = 964 building capacity

I know Wilson went through a modernization program in 2011, so maybe that explains the 12% capacity increase DCPS gave it before 2013. Did Deal get any significant expansion in the 10 years between 2003 and 2013, to explain the 24% capacity bump it received?

According to this document from 2015 - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4tLyP97rUAhWBXyYKHUZpBRsQFghlMAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwilsonhs.org%2Fourpages%2Fauto%2F2014%2F10%2F31%2F50465841%2FLSAT%2520Meeting%2520Minutes_2015_02_19.docx&usg=AFQjCNHxgzUEiL-sCFbhC4pW7VhOKArj0w&sig2=IpDTD4qr6lMS2u24_twlaA - "Original specifications for Wilson were for 1550 students [Is this after the 2011 modernization?], however space was reconfigured to increase building capacity at 1750; accommodating 1808 is a problem. 90% classrooms are utilized. The spaces that could be opened for classroom space are fully utilized – the 10% remaining couldn’t be used for classrooms."

According to this page from 2015, Deal has a permanent capacity of 1370, plus "portable" capacity of 200 more. Wilson has a permanent capacity of 1700. https://github.com/codefordc/school-modernization/blob/master/InputData/DCPS%20Building%20Condition%20Dat%20(2-Table%201.csv

As an aside, here is a fascinating report from around 2006, which describes how DCPS was not making use of many buildings due to underenrollment. Interesting to compare what was going on then with what we see now.
http://www.narpac.org/PEF.HTM
http://www.narpac.org/PEFDOWN.HTM

Yes they renovated and connected the historic Reno school to Deal a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know the plan around the expected impact of switching Eaton to Hardy (from Deal) next year... that would theoretically be a shift of 70ish students out of Deal per class & more IB into Hardy quickly.

Unfortunately, even with the Eaton switch to Deal, there is still a lot of leakage in the pipeline. For example, the Hearst principal seems incapable of understanding that the lower grades will fill with 100% IB students and continues to let in 5-6 OOB students each year over the summer leading to overcrowding at the ES level. First year, maybe honest mistake. Second year, not so much. Makes you wonder if central office is applying pressure. Similar is happening elsewhere.

You don't need to wonder. Yes, the central office and many of the 'higher performing' schools have a 10% set aside and different enrollment objectives (and look to fill cohort size by classroom capacity and not overall school size capacity etc). It's not up to the principal on their own. They speak about it openly about this at public meetings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know the plan around the expected impact of switching Eaton to Hardy (from Deal) next year... that would theoretically be a shift of 70ish students out of Deal per class & more IB into Hardy quickly.

With this year's Deal audited enrollment is 1476 - (538 for 6th, 466 for 7th, and 472 for 8th) - if the numbers are similar this year... taking out the Eaton population would take the per class #s back to around 460ish, and keep the school at 1400 total. Hopefully they don't then refill the 'slots' created with additional students from elsewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wilson

capacity 1600
enrollment 1749

2017 graduating 378, entering 472 from Deal, 137 from Hardy
2018 Net increase: 231 = 1980 (380 students too many).

2018 graduating 385, entering 466 from Deal, 107 from Hardy
2019 net increase: 188 = 2168 (568 students too many)

2019 graduating 454, entering 538 from Deal, 130 from Hardy
2020 net increase 214 = 2382 (782 students too many).

And the classes coming up from ES are bigger still -- two of the largest feeders just had capacity increased by over 100 students each.

Remember that capacity is about number of classrooms, number of people who can fit in common spaces, number of offices available for staff to handle the needs of the student body. An increase of 782 students (a group larger than most DC schools) requires the equivalent of adding nearly a full staff for a high school. So in the building, it is not just a matter of more teen bodies blocking the hallways, but more adult teachers and staff too. And the wear and tear on an overcrowded facility happens very quickly.

This really is nuts when you consider that Wilson is presently 50% OOB, Deal is 37% OOB, and Hardy is 80% OOB (and enrollment at 57% of capacity).

What if Hardy became a 6-12 school like private schools are? The advanced middle schoolers would have instant access to higher level classes.

Where are you "entering" numbers coming from. Are you simply taking the cumulative grade sizes from the Wilson feeders? If so, that's way off because plenty of kids peel off for privates for high school. I'm pretty sure we will as will many of our friends' kids.

Not I didn't speculate about number leaving. You aren't a big enough group to change the crowding though and the number who leave is decreasing every year. Walls is the figure that should be deleted, but it's not very much either when you are talking 700+.