Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 2 yr old told me to stop playing critical thinking games with patterns, shapes, numbers and words because this would constitute cheating for the CoGAT test she may take 4 years from now if we are still living in Va. What a smart whipper snapper. We were floored. She must sneak on DCUM when we are not looking.

You do realize, don't you, that critical thinking games are not the same thing as practicing test questions over and over again?

[Anonymous]

After 44 pages, hasn't this topic been beaten to death enough???

We don't need new topics on DCUM, just develop a list and say "refer to......"

ENOUGH!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My 2 yr old told me to stop playing critical thinking games with patterns, shapes, numbers and words because this would constitute cheating for the CoGAT test she may take 4 years from now if we are still living in Va. What a smart whipper snapper. We were floored. She must sneak on DCUM when we are not looking.


You do realize, don't you, that critical thinking games are not the same thing as practicing test questions over and over again?


But, we were practicing these critical thinking games and skills over and over again, day in and day out, week after week, year in and year out. This must be prepping and cheating. My 2 year old cautioned us since she may have to take GoCAT in 4 to 5 years if we still live in VA>

[Anonymous]

I know you're trying to be funny, but I hope even your 2 year old can see that what people refer to as prepping is different than playing critical thinking games.

Here is a description of the kind of prepping that people are talking about here:

There is a big difference between engaging in critical thinking skills and "prepping" using test materials provided by commercial entities.The questions in these materials are so similar to the actual test questions that they at least appear to be the same to kids whose parents have used these materials.

Here's a quote from a consumer who used one of these company's materials:

My daughter took the test yesterday.... We had a week to cram, and by Saturday she was comfortable with it. My daughter said that
some of the questions were on the test, the patterns were somewhat exact.


This parent was pleased that the child had likely done well on the test because she had seen questions ahead of time that were very, very similar to what she saw on the actual test.

So at least one company is selling materials with questions that mimic those on the test to such a degree that children feel that they have seen the questions before. When children are exposed to this kind of "prep," the results of the child's test will not reflect his or her abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know you're trying to be funny, but I hope even your 2 year old can see that what people refer to as prepping is different than playing critical thinking games.

Here is a description of the kind of prepping that people are talking about here:

There is a big difference between engaging in critical thinking skills and "prepping" using test materials provided by commercial entities.The questions in these materials are so similar to the actual test questions that they at least appear to be the same to kids whose parents have used these materials.

Here's a quote from a consumer who used one of these company's materials:

My daughter took the test yesterday.... We had a week to cram, and by Saturday she was comfortable with it. My daughter said that
some of the questions were on the test, the patterns were somewhat exact.


This parent was pleased that the child had likely done well on the test because she had seen questions ahead of time that were very, very similar to what she saw on the actual test.

So at least one company is selling materials with questions that mimic those on the test to such a degree that children feel that they have seen the questions before. When children are exposed to this kind of "prep," the results of the child's test will not reflect his or her abilities.

Wrong. It will reflect the child's ability to prepare and succeed. It is no different than commercially available SAT prep programs or tests, which greatly mimic the form of the actual questions on the test. Some kids have great resources to prepare for the test, and others either choose not to, or do not have the resources. However, I do not hear colleges crying out to applicants not to take SAT prep. To those who feel prepping is morally wrong, please don't prep your child, it will give my prepped kid an even greater advantage over you unprepared child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you're trying to be funny, but I hope even your 2 year old can see that what people refer to as prepping is different than playing critical thinking games.

Here is a description of the kind of prepping that people are talking about here:

There is a big difference between engaging in critical thinking skills and "prepping" using test materials provided by commercial entities.The questions in these materials are so similar to the actual test questions that they at least appear to be the same to kids whose parents have used these materials.

Here's a quote from a consumer who used one of these company's materials:

My daughter took the test yesterday.... We had a week to cram, and by Saturday she was comfortable with it. My daughter said that
some of the questions were on the test, the patterns were somewhat exact.


This parent was pleased that the child had likely done well on the test because she had seen questions ahead of time that were very, very similar to what she saw on the actual test.

So at least one company is selling materials with questions that mimic those on the test to such a degree that children feel that they have seen the questions before. When children are exposed to this kind of "prep," the results of the child's test will not reflect his or her abilities.

Wrong. It will reflect the child's ability to prepare and succeed. It is no different than commercially available SAT prep programs or tests, which greatly mimic the form of the actual questions on the test. Some kids have great resources to prepare for the test, and others either choose not to, or do not have the resources. However, I do not hear colleges crying out to applicants not to take SAT prep. To those who feel prepping is morally wrong, please don't prep your child, it will give my prepped kid an even greater advantage over you unprepared child.

The fact is that the CogAT is meant to assess how quickly children can deal with questions they have never seen before. It is a measure of how easily children grasp new material. When a child has been "prepped," and someone has explained to the child how to answer the questions, the test is only measuring how much the child has studied and not how quickly the child learns. Yes, that child might get a high "score" on the test, but the result is not really a reflection of how quickly the child learns new things.

[Anonymous]

The fact is that the CogAT is meant to assess how quickly children can deal with questions they have never seen before. It is a measure of how easily children grasp new material. When a child has been "prepped," and someone has explained to the child how to answer the questions, the test is only measuring how much the child has studied and not how quickly the child learns. Yes, that child might get a high "score" on the test, but the result is not really a reflection of how quickly the child learns new things.


This.

But never fear -- the real world has a way of sorting this out. I'd bet on the kid prepared for that reality and confident in his ability to do things without mommy and daddy pushing and gaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact is that the CogAT is meant to assess how quickly children can deal with questions they have never seen before. It is a measure of how easily children grasp new material. When a child has been "prepped," and someone has explained to the child how to answer the questions, the test is only measuring how much the child has studied and not how quickly the child learns. Yes, that child might get a high "score" on the test, but the result is not really a reflection of how quickly the child learns new things.


This.

But never fear -- the real world has a way of sorting this out. I'd bet on the kid prepared for that reality and confident in his ability to do things without mommy and daddy pushing and gaming.

Actually the 6 year AAP program will actually "sort it all out". Those that "gamed the system" as you say, will enjoy six years of a superior education and develop confidence and a base of learning that will serve them well in high school and college that will exceed the general ed program. Opportunity opens new opportunity. Please, please, let you child do it on his/her own. Others, whose parents thought they were doing right by only offering a good nights sleep and breakfast, could very likely find themselves in general ed. But they can always explain to their child and rationalize that they did the right thing and that that is really where they really belong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact is that the CogAT is meant to assess how quickly children can deal with questions they have never seen before. It is a measure of how easily children grasp new material. When a child has been "prepped," and someone has explained to the child how to answer the questions, the test is only measuring how much the child has studied and not how quickly the child learns. Yes, that child might get a high "score" on the test, but the result is not really a reflection of how quickly the child learns new things.


This.

But never fear -- the real world has a way of sorting this out. I'd bet on the kid prepared for that reality and confident in his ability to do things without mommy and daddy pushing and gaming.

Actually the 6 year AAP program will actually "sort it all out". Those that "gamed the system" as you say, will enjoy six years of a superior education and develop confidence and a base of learning that will serve them well in high school and college that will exceed the general ed program. Opportunity opens new opportunity. Please, please, let you child do it on his/her own. Others, whose parents thought they were doing right by only offering a good nights sleep and breakfast, could very likely find themselves in general ed. But they can always explain to their child and rationalize that they did the right thing and that that is really where they really belong.

Or those parents can tell their children they were honest, and gave them a good night sleep and breakfast, just as the county told them to do.

[Anonymous]

Clearly, you have a strong belief that this is true combined with a belief that the AAP program is the only way to get a good education here. In reality, FCP schools are able to provide a good education to all and children will learn best in a classroom that is most suited to the way they learn. It is no favor to a child to be placed in a classroom that is not a good fit. A child who has to work all the time and work with outside tutors just to keep up will have no time for music, art, athletics, or other outside endeavours.

If the goal is eventual acceptance to a good college, getting a child into AAP at any cost could prove to be a bad plan, since colleges are looking for students who can do high level work and also have lots of time for outside of school involvements.

If anything, children for whom AAP is a poor fit are more likely to lose confidence if their classmates are learning more quickly and easily than they are. They can actually develop a better and stronger base of knowledge for high school and college if they are being taught in a way that best suits their individual needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly, you have a strong belief that this is true combined with a belief that the AAP program is the only way to get a good education here. In reality, FCP schools are able to provide a good education to all and children will learn best in a classroom that is most suited to the way they learn. It is no favor to a child to be placed in a classroom that is not a good fit. A child who has to work all the time and work with outside tutors just to keep up will have no time for music, art, athletics, or other outside endeavours.
If the goal is eventual acceptance to a good college, getting a child into AAP at any cost could prove to be a bad plan, since colleges are looking for students who can do high level work and also have lots of time for outside of school involvements.

If anything, children for whom AAP is a poor fit are more likely to lose confidence if their classmates are learning more quickly and easily than they are. They can actually develop a better and stronger base of knowledge for high school and college if they are being taught in a way that best suits their individual needs.

sorry but this is just malarky. You don't have to keep up in AAP. Not like they're gonna boot you out. Many kids "don't belong" in there; so what? Their parents worked hard to get them in there and that's where they'll stay. Seen this in every class DC has been in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly, you have a strong belief that this is true combined with a belief that the AAP program is the only way to get a good education here. In reality, FCP schools are able to provide a good education to all and children will learn best in a classroom that is most suited to the way they learn. It is no favor to a child to be placed in a classroom that is not a good fit. A child who has to work all the time and work with outside tutors just to keep up will have no time for music, art, athletics, or other outside endeavours.

If the goal is eventual acceptance to a good college, getting a child into AAP at any cost could prove to be a bad plan, since colleges are looking for students who can do high level work and also have lots of time for outside of school involvements.

If anything, children for whom AAP is a poor fit are more likely to lose confidence if their classmates are learning more quickly and easily than they are. They can actually develop a better and stronger base of knowledge for high school and college if they are being taught in a way that best suits their individual needs.

Yeah, nice try. Most, if not all, kids that can prep and do well on the standardized tests to get in will do just fine in the program. I am not talking about prepping a 50%'r to get in, but rather an 85-92%'r. Those are the ones who may have a great work ethic and actually study harder or more effectively than the high achieving kids who coast. Those that prepped may actually build confidence in the program and realize that hard work and preparation pay off in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly, you have a strong belief that this is true combined with a belief that the AAP program is the only way to get a good education here. In reality, FCP schools are able to provide a good education to all and children will learn best in a classroom that is most suited to the way they learn. It is no favor to a child to be placed in a classroom that is not a good fit. A child who has to work all the time and work with outside tutors just to keep up will have no time for music, art, athletics, or other outside endeavours.

If the goal is eventual acceptance to a good college, getting a child into AAP at any cost could prove to be a bad plan, since colleges are looking for students who can do high level work and also have lots of time for outside of school involvements.

If anything, children for whom AAP is a poor fit are more likely to lose confidence if their classmates are learning more quickly and easily than they are. They can actually develop a better and stronger base of knowledge for high school and college if they are being taught in a way that best suits their individual needs.

Yeah, nice try. Most, if not all, kids that can prep and do well on the standardized tests to get in will do just fine in the program. I am not talking about prepping a 50%'r to get in, but rather an 85-92%'r. Those are the ones who may have a great work ethic and actually study harder or more effectively than the high achieving kids who coast. Those that prepped may actually build confidence in the program and realize that hard work and preparation pay off in the long run.

The problem with prepping is that the county is aware that some people do it. They do not specifically know which people do it, but they know it is out there. So, if a test is out of whack with the rest of the folder, the test is down-weighted. Or another way to put it is a low GBRS coupled with a high test score is less likely to get in than a high GBRS with a low test score. Ideally, an unprepped high score should could as much, if not more than the GBRS.

So, who is hurt is kids that do not prep, and get a high score, but for whatever reason, did not get a good GBRS.

[Anonymous]

Didn't read the whole thread but there are naturally gifted kids that will do well on the test without prep. Then there are high achievers that will do well because they prepped like crazy. The AAP teachers know the difference when they teach the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't read the whole thread but there are naturally gifted kids that will do well on the test without prep. Then there are high achievers that will do well because they prepped like crazy. The AAP teachers know the difference when they teach the kids.

So?