Explain to Me How You Fund and Staff a Deal for All-in-Development

[Anonymous]

OK, we have smart people here, even some with experience in education, charters, startups, business, etc.

I want to know how you budget out a school that meets the "Deal" requirements - differentiation (no need to call it honors, tracking, etc.); extracurriculars, and the rest --- before you ever get the student body to meet that objective.

And how do you change over a school that's existing - not picking on any at all, just going with broadly-expressed sentiment - to lay out that set of course offerings?

I feel like we need to move on from broad sentiments in the WP articles and broad postings here to real nitty-gritty stuff. Is 6th grade Algebra necessary for six students? Or could you do a pull-out just for math? Can you build an advancing cohort of students that takes only one advanced class, e.g., math or humanities, and the rest along with everyone else? Could you build advanced options into extended day schools simply by having them at the end of the normal day for another hour with a rotating specialist?

I intend to ignore the ladies here who just say "no" or "end poverty" "just advertise better," or broad, easy shouted-out troll answers... I'm looking for things like, "you need 2 social studies offerings in 7th grade but only one PE teacher" or "cut an assistant principal and fund a remedial English/ELL teacher so that at least one ELA teacher can reliably teach on grade level for each grade." Maybe stuff like "partner with extracurricular NGO types like DC Scores who can get more sports teams into your school" or "limiting PE staffing doesn't help."

Do the charters DCPS is competing with have public staffing models, for example? Somebody has to know what the BASIS math offerings in 6/7/8 are, for example.

I for one am not going to go with the goofy "not good as" biases of Hardy vs Deal or Jefferson vs. Kelly Miller or whatever if I know at a concrete level that if my student can keep his eyes forward he won't end up treading water academically, individually. (I care if the other students pass, but I don't believe being below basic is a disease my son can catch.) So I intend to judge a school by its offerings, and I believe that if they are there, THAT's meeting the promise of 'Deal for all.'

Thanks guys, I appreciate your knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, we have smart people here, even some with experience in education, charters, startups, business, etc.

I want to know how you budget out a school that meets the "Deal" requirements - differentiation (no need to call it honors, tracking, etc.); extracurriculars, and the rest --- before you ever get the student body to meet that objective.

And how do you change over a school that's existing - not picking on any at all, just going with broadly-expressed sentiment - to lay out that set of course offerings?

I feel like we need to move on from broad sentiments in the WP articles and broad postings here to real nitty-gritty stuff. Is 6th grade Algebra necessary for six students? Or could you do a pull-out just for math? Can you build an advancing cohort of students that takes only one advanced class, e.g., math or humanities, and the rest along with everyone else? Could you build advanced options into extended day schools simply by having them at the end of the normal day for another hour with a rotating specialist?

I intend to ignore the ladies here who just say "no" or "end poverty" "just advertise better," or broad, easy shouted-out troll answers... I'm looking for things like, "you need 2 social studies offerings in 7th grade but only one PE teacher" or "cut an assistant principal and fund a remedial English/ELL teacher so that at least one ELA teacher can reliably teach on grade level for each grade." Maybe stuff like "partner with extracurricular NGO types like DC Scores who can get more sports teams into your school" or "limiting PE staffing doesn't help."

Do the charters DCPS is competing with have public staffing models, for example? Somebody has to know what the BASIS math offerings in 6/7/8 are, for example.

I for one am not going to go with the goofy "not good as" biases of Hardy vs Deal or Jefferson vs. Kelly Miller or whatever if I know at a concrete level that if my student can keep his eyes forward he won't end up treading water academically, individually. (I care if the other students pass, but I don't believe being below basic is a disease my son can catch.) So I intend to judge a school by its offerings, and I believe that if they are there, THAT's meeting the promise of 'Deal for all.'

Thanks guys, I appreciate your knowledge.

"End poverty" is what some people are looking for when they think "Deal for all". If the school had low FARMS, they'd be fine with it.

You're taking a more nuanced look, which I applaud. But it means that the solution isn't as simple. I'd look for differentiation / small class size AND willingness of the administration to engage higher performing kids. DCUM will tell you that's not possible, never happens. But at the elementary level I've had that, and I'll be looking for it at the MS level.

[Anonymous]

You need several things:

More teachers so that advanced classes can be offered, along with IB or AP classes or whatever.

More social work type staff to manage behavior at a level upper income parents will tolerate.

Possibly different or more extracurriculars to appeal to different groups.

Investment in feeder elementaries to raise the performance of incoming students.

Political will to tolerate a less than ideal economic and racial distribution of students across classes.

The first things will cost a ton of money. The last cannot be bought.

[Anonymous]

OP - You can see what Basis subjects are offered by grade here. Classes tend to have about 20-24 students in middle school.

http://www.basisdc.org/Downloads/dc-1617-course-list.pdf

One big difference from DCPS and other charters is that all middle school students are enrolled in 9 different classes/have 9 different teachers. The school day is also longer (8:45-4:00, rather than 3:15).

Not all classes meet 5 days a week but they do meet a minimum of 3 times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, we have smart people here, even some with experience in education, charters, startups, business, etc.

I want to know how you budget out a school that meets the "Deal" requirements - differentiation (no need to call it honors, tracking, etc.); extracurriculars, and the rest --- before you ever get the student body to meet that objective.

And how do you change over a school that's existing - not picking on any at all, just going with broadly-expressed sentiment - to lay out that set of course offerings?

I feel like we need to move on from broad sentiments in the WP articles and broad postings here to real nitty-gritty stuff. Is 6th grade Algebra necessary for six students? Or could you do a pull-out just for math? Can you build an advancing cohort of students that takes only one advanced class, e.g., math or humanities, and the rest along with everyone else? Could you build advanced options into extended day schools simply by having them at the end of the normal day for another hour with a rotating specialist?

I intend to ignore the ladies here who just say "no" or "end poverty" "just advertise better," or broad, easy shouted-out troll answers... I'm looking for things like, "you need 2 social studies offerings in 7th grade but only one PE teacher" or "cut an assistant principal and fund a remedial English/ELL teacher so that at least one ELA teacher can reliably teach on grade level for each grade." Maybe stuff like "partner with extracurricular NGO types like DC Scores who can get more sports teams into your school" or "limiting PE staffing doesn't help."

Do the charters DCPS is competing with have public staffing models, for example? Somebody has to know what the BASIS math offerings in 6/7/8 are, for example.

I for one am not going to go with the goofy "not good as" biases of Hardy vs Deal or Jefferson vs. Kelly Miller or whatever if I know at a concrete level that if my student can keep his eyes forward he won't end up treading water academically, individually. (I care if the other students pass, but I don't believe being below basic is a disease my son can catch.) So I intend to judge a school by its offerings, and I believe that if they are there, THAT's meeting the promise of 'Deal for all.'

Thanks guys, I appreciate your knowledge.

Really good and fair questions. The reality is that these are things that are hard for every school, and even people who are immersed in schools and education don't have answers to all of them- if they did you would see them in action in a lot more schools.

[Anonymous]

OP - at Deal all classes are taught at the same level (ELA, humanities, science, PE/art/music). No differentiation or tracking outside of Math (up to Geometry) and foreign language.

At Hardy and SH students can also advance to a higher level of math (up to Geometry). I don't think advanced language are offered.

DCPS has committed to offering Algebra at every middle school starting next year. That hasn't been the case before now.

[Anonymous]

See, they can't just pick one school to work on and lavish it with resources that other schools don't get. If you give to Eliot-Hine, for example, you have to give to Stuart-Hobson and Jefferson and Hardy and MacFarland and everything else. So it becomes very, very expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See, they can't just pick one school to work on and lavish it with resources that other schools don't get. If you give to Eliot-Hine, for example, you have to give to Stuart-Hobson and Jefferson and Hardy and MacFarland and everything else. So it becomes very, very expensive.

Yes and no. They are clearly providing different things to MacFarland to nurture a dual language middle school program, even ahead of creating the traditional middle school program.

[Anonymous]

DCPS's model to fund schools based on student enrollment is also problematic here, because the huge bohemoth schools are cash cows literally drawing resources (students and $$) directly from the other schools. Smaller schools don't benefit from the same economies of scale, which hurts their offerings, which makes them less desirable, which makes fewer students enroll, and it's a downward spiral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, they can't just pick one school to work on and lavish it with resources that other schools don't get. If you give to Eliot-Hine, for example, you have to give to Stuart-Hobson and Jefferson and Hardy and MacFarland and everything else. So it becomes very, very expensive.

Yes and no. They are clearly providing different things to MacFarland to nurture a dual language middle school program, even ahead of creating the traditional middle school program.

Ok, but in the absence of a special program that is not being sought by other schools. All schools would love an extra counselor or math teacher or whatever.

[Anonymous]

I think your premise is wrong. It's not appropriate for DCPS to lavish money on a school in order to attract a certain demographic. DCPS SHOULD work with parents to discuss specific concerns about how instructional needs are met, and this may require some expenditures. But, creating a "turnkey" public MS to meet the demands of high SES parents in advance? Not gonna happen. Appropriately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think your premise is wrong. It's not appropriate for DCPS to lavish money on a school in order to attract a certain demographic. DCPS SHOULD work with parents to discuss specific concerns about how instructional needs are met, and this may require some expenditures. But, creating a "turnkey" public MS to meet the demands of high SES parents in advance? Not gonna happen. Appropriately.

It isn't to attract a certain demographic, it is to serve all kids well. Reaerch support for economically integrated schools is very strong, and all kids benefit from robust course offerings, counseling, activities, and other supports. Right now the schools are failing to serve most kids, it's just that some still attend for lack of other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think your premise is wrong. It's not appropriate for DCPS to lavish money on a school in order to attract a certain demographic. DCPS SHOULD work with parents to discuss specific concerns about how instructional needs are met, and this may require some expenditures. But, creating a "turnkey" public MS to meet the demands of high SES parents in advance? Not gonna happen. Appropriately.

It isn't to attract a certain demographic, it is to serve all kids well. Reaerch support for economically integrated schools is very strong, and all kids benefit from robust course offerings, counseling, activities, and other supports. Right now the schools are failing to serve most kids, it's just that some still attend for lack of other options.

What DCPS middle school doesn't have a social worker/counselor? I think the ALL have them, some more than 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think your premise is wrong. It's not appropriate for DCPS to lavish money on a school in order to attract a certain demographic. DCPS SHOULD work with parents to discuss specific concerns about how instructional needs are met, and this may require some expenditures. But, creating a "turnkey" public MS to meet the demands of high SES parents in advance? Not gonna happen. Appropriately.

It isn't to attract a certain demographic, it is to serve all kids well. Reaerch support for economically integrated schools is very strong, and all kids benefit from robust course offerings, counseling, activities, and other supports. Right now the schools are failing to serve most kids, it's just that some still attend for lack of other options.

What DCPS middle school doesn't have a social worker/counselor? I think the ALL have them, some more than 1.

Yes but most of them would benefit from another one, however many they already have.

[Anonymous]

In my days of attending Takoma Education Center, now called Education Campus, we had a GT program within the school. A few of us were pulled out of class during a particular subject for advanced instruction.

Not sure why schools can't do this anymore.