Cash for Clunkers

[Anonymous]

OK, I'm wililng to be swayed, but here's my knee-jerk emotional as all get out angry reaction:

As a broke-as-hell person (got that way shitcanning my earning ability working for the non-profit environmental movement for years) who only buys cars used that get at a bare-as-hell minimum 30 mpg, it chaps my ass that people who bought big gas guzzlers because they could and because they didn't care are getting a goddamn rebate. Make 'em take a goddamn bus with their 2.5 kids and their far away jobs and their bags of groceries like a lot of the rest of us.

[jsteele]

Here are the lists of the 10 most traded-in and purchased vehicles under C4C (thanks to Jalopnik.com"

The Ten Most Traded-In Vehicles
1. Ford Explorer 4WD
2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD
6. Ford Explorer 2WD
7. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
8. Ford F150 Pickup 4WD
9. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
10. Ford Windstar FWD Van

The Ten Most Purchased Vehicles
1. Toyota Corolla
2. Ford Focus FWD
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius
5. Toyota Camry
6. Hyundai Elantra
7. Ford Escape FWD
8. Dodge Caliber
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevrolet Cobalt

As you can see, gas guzzling polluters are being traded for econo-boxes. As an environmentalist, you know that such an exchange will have environmental benefits that will improve things for all of us. Also, there are a lot fewer behemoths on the road attempting to run over you and me.

Yes, some poor decision-makers are getting a nice rebate while the frugal aren't. However, the end result benefits us all.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for talking me down.

[Anonymous]

13:20 I hear ya. Why can't the program apply to all cars older than X years? Is that how they did it in Europe?? The bailouts and this seem to be saying next time round, live big and irresponsibly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:20 I hear ya. Why can't the program apply to all cars older than X years? Is that how they did it in Europe?? The bailouts and this seem to be saying next time round, live big and irresponsibly.

Because of the way the program is structure, it effectively does only apply to older cars, because those are worth less. Any reasonable person with a car worth more than $4500 would choose to trade it in or sell it for more than $4500when buying a car, rather than taking the $4500 cash for clunkers rebate. The only people taking those rebates are those with cars worth less than $4500 (or $3500), which are almost exclusively older cars.

[Anonymous]

As a person who lives frugally and responsibly, and pays a heck of a lot in taxes and will not get any type of tax break...we took advantage of cash for clunkers and are glad we did. We did it on the first round and got rid of a 1997 SUV. We will be paying for it in taxes regardless!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:As a person who lives frugally and responsibly, and pays a heck of a lot in taxes and will not get any type of tax break...we took advantage of cash for clunkers and are glad we did. We did it on the first round and got rid of a 1997 SUV. We will be paying for it in taxes regardless!

Do you mind sharing what you bought?

[Anonymous]

I don't know about the next guy, but I'll never be sorry I bought a Honda-there's a good reason they don't qualify. Looking to buy another one next time I need a new car.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person who lives frugally and responsibly, and pays a heck of a lot in taxes and will not get any type of tax break...we took advantage of cash for clunkers and are glad we did. We did it on the first round and got rid of a 1997 SUV. We will be paying for it in taxes regardless!

Do you mind sharing what you bought?

I do not want to share what I bought because I do not want to be attacked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person who lives frugally and responsibly, and pays a heck of a lot in taxes and will not get any type of tax break...we took advantage of cash for clunkers and are glad we did. We did it on the first round and got rid of a 1997 SUV. We will be paying for it in taxes regardless!

Do you mind sharing what you bought?

I do not want to share what I bought because I do not want to be attacked.

Not a Hummer I hope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person who lives frugally and responsibly, and pays a heck of a lot in taxes and will not get any type of tax break...we took advantage of cash for clunkers and are glad we did. We did it on the first round and got rid of a 1997 SUV. We will be paying for it in taxes regardless!

Do you mind sharing what you bought?

I do not want to share what I bought because I do not want to be attacked.

Not a Hummer I hope.

Ah no...not a Hummer!

[Anonymous]

After this is said and done, I do hope an extensive analysis is performed that answers some fundamental questions:

1) Were the people who took advantage of this program looking to buy a replacement vehicle anyway?

2) If so, if this program were not around, would they have ended up buying a used car instead?

3) What is the gas mileage of the car ultimately purchased compared to the gas mileage of the vehicle they would have bought if cash for clunkers were not available?

4) Was the vehicle purchased made in America? Was it made by an American company? What percentage U.S. parts/steel/etc?

5) What impact has this program had on total emissions for the U.S.? What was the unit cost?

6) What percent of the transactions are fraudulent? Vehicles not really destroyed, non-owner trading-in, etc.

7) Taking into account only those people who would not have purchased a new car except for cash for clunkers, what was the net gain for U.S. automotive workers?

8) What is the net impact on U.S. auto dealers? There are hidden costs to them for running the program.

9) What impact did the program have on the salvage market? Did the price of spare parts go down?

9) What was the age and income of the people who took advantage of this program? How many vehicles were purchased jointly by parents/children and/or grandparents/grandchildren?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After this is said and done, I do hope an extensive analysis is performed that answers some fundamental questions:

1) Were the people who took advantage of this program looking to buy a replacement vehicle anyway?

2) If so, if this program were not around, would they have ended up buying a used car instead?

3) What is the gas mileage of the car ultimately purchased compared to the gas mileage of the vehicle they would have bought if cash for clunkers were not available?

4) Was the vehicle purchased made in America? Was it made by an American company? What percentage U.S. parts/steel/etc?

5) What impact has this program had on total emissions for the U.S.? What was the unit cost?

6) What percent of the transactions are fraudulent? Vehicles not really destroyed, non-owner trading-in, etc.

7) Taking into account only those people who would not have purchased a new car except for cash for clunkers, what was the net gain for U.S. automotive workers?

8) What is the net impact on U.S. auto dealers? There are hidden costs to them for running the program.

9) What impact did the program have on the salvage market? Did the price of spare parts go down?

9) What was the age and income of the people who took advantage of this program? How many vehicles were purchased jointly by parents/children and/or grandparents/grandchildren?

And are we reporting this back to you??????

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a request letter to the GAO. . .

Anonymous wrote:After this is said and done, I do hope an extensive analysis is performed that answers some fundamental questions:

1) Were the people who took advantage of this program looking to buy a replacement vehicle anyway?

2) If so, if this program were not around, would they have ended up buying a used car instead?

3) What is the gas mileage of the car ultimately purchased compared to the gas mileage of the vehicle they would have bought if cash for clunkers were not available?

4) Was the vehicle purchased made in America? Was it made by an American company? What percentage U.S. parts/steel/etc?

5) What impact has this program had on total emissions for the U.S.? What was the unit cost?

6) What percent of the transactions are fraudulent? Vehicles not really destroyed, non-owner trading-in, etc.

7) Taking into account only those people who would not have purchased a new car except for cash for clunkers, what was the net gain for U.S. automotive workers?

8) What is the net impact on U.S. auto dealers? There are hidden costs to them for running the program.

9) What impact did the program have on the salvage market? Did the price of spare parts go down?

9) What was the age and income of the people who took advantage of this program? How many vehicles were purchased jointly by parents/children and/or grandparents/grandchildren?

[Anonymous]

I like the questions - are we afraid of the answers?