MSNV, why?

[Anonymous]

I am gathering information for 2018-2019 school year and was interested in MSNV for my son. Everyone says it's a very special place, but as I am diving into the conversation with more questions, no one was able to elaborate why??? I don't get it, sounds like a cult.

[Anonymous]

MSNV is a great Montessori school with experienced teachers. It also has an emphasis on nature and being environmentally conscious that I loved.

However, Montessori is not for every family, and there something "cult-like" about it. You either buy fully into the Montessori approach -- or you don't. Questioning the teachers or the approach is not allowed, which is why it kind of seems cult-like.

I found that they go rather to the extreme in building autonomy. A child who is crying is not comforted, but separated from the rest of the class. A teacher will sit with them, but there are no hugs (and we're talking about 3-year olds, here) or words of comfort -- just a rational discussion.

Montessori is great in terms f being experiential, child-driven, and focused on emergent learning. However, it can mean that kids who need more structure or who need more nurture and care from teachers can be left behind. Montessori classrooms can be up to 27 students with one teacher. The idea is that there is a lot of independent and peer teaching going on. In practice, I think that can be more limited.

The thing that bothered me most was the ban on imaginative play. Manipulatives are to be used only for their intended purpose. While MSNV defenders will say that the children get to exercise their imagines during recess and breaks, there is so much research that supports imaginative play as directly contributing to executive function and empathy development that I'm shocked that any modern teaching approach would ban it from the classroom. Every Montessori school we toured and visited said the same thing -- no imaginative play in the classroom.

Of the Montessori schools we visited and observed, we thought MSNV was the best. However, ultimately we realized that we were not on board with the Montessori approach to education. Maria Montessori was a brilliant educational reformer. However, her techniques were developed 110 years ago, without the advantage of the extensive research on brain and child development we now have. Unfortunately, neither AMS nor AMI have allowed significant adaptations to Montessori's original approach for the schools they accredit.

[Anonymous]

I have two friends who sent their kids there and both have negative things to say about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two friends who sent their kids there and both have negative things to say about it.

Expand please.

[Anonymous]

We have two children there and love it. We have been there for several years as our oldest is now in elementary. Happy to answe any questions, and their admissions director is wonderful and open happy to do the same.

First, I assure you that crying children are comforted. I assume that the PP was speaking as to Montessori in general? The teachers are amazing -- including knowing the children well and yes, if someone needs comforting, they do that. However, they aren't babied - and there is a difference in my view. For example, when my youngest was just starting and had those "don't leave" crying spells, her teachers were compassionate and kind.

Second, the school teaches virtues, not just the basics. Kindness, tolerance, integrity-- these are part of what they learn. They also learn independence, like cleaning up after themselves at lunch, helping with the garden, etc.

Third, the education far exceeds every expectation I had, but not in a competitive or excessive way. My four year old reads and loves it. My 8 year old is doing all the basics, but also woodworking and composting. They are encourage to explore their interests and the teachers work that into their curriculum.

Finally, this school has a real sense of community. It's not competitive, parents are welcome any time. It has a co-op / service hours aspect which is easy to meet because there are so many opportunities to participate in your child's education. The families are very welcoming and the children encourage a sense of togetherness.

It really is a special place. I can't describe it any other way and we couldn't be happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two friends who sent their kids there and both have negative things to say about it.

Expand please.

Both of them felt that their kids were unprepared and behind when they moved to a private. Also some complaints about facilities and class size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two friends who sent their kids there and both have negative things to say about it.

Expand please.

Both of them felt that their kids were unprepared and behind when they moved to a private. Also some complaints about facilities and class size.

The class sizes are traditional Montessori class sizes - about 22-25 per class with 2 teachers. As for being prepared, I guess each kid is different. I am aware of more than one instance where a child left after primary to go to their local public only to come back for elementary because they were bored elsewhere. The school does place kids in many private, a number going to Burgundy, though many also opting for their neighborhood schools . That being the case, while I think the academics are very strong, I imagine it is very tough to go from an environment where kids do work on rugs, couches or under desks where they install lights to make nooks to having to sit still at a desk -- so that would make sense. The facilities were just renovated but PE does require they go to another gym for the older kids so that's a minus.

It's a very open community, so ask to go do an observation and while you are there, just grab a parent (there will be many around) and ask their views. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two friends who sent their kids there and both have negative things to say about it.

Expand please.

Both of them felt that their kids were unprepared and behind when they moved to a private. Also some complaints about facilities and class size.

The class sizes are traditional Montessori class sizes - about 22-25 per class with 2 teachers. As for being prepared, I guess each kid is different. I am aware of more than one instance where a child left after primary to go to their local public only to come back for elementary because they were bored elsewhere. The school does place kids in many private, a number going to Burgundy, though many also opting for their neighborhood schools . That being the case, while I think the academics are very strong, I imagine it is very tough to go from an environment where kids do work on rugs, couches or under desks where they install lights to make nooks to having to sit still at a desk -- so that would make sense. The facilities were just renovated but PE does require they go to another gym for the older kids so that's a minus.

It's a very open community, so ask to go do an observation and while you are there, just grab a parent (there will be many around) and ask their views. Good luck!

Are parent volunteering hours mandatory? about how many hours? I see the tuition is higher than most Montessori schools and in June there's a donation required. Even though it's a donation, there's a differentiation between levels of donation, so I believe there's a level of pressure? There's no other discounts in tuition, so the average is about $1700 per month. How do ppl afford this? Especially if there are two or more kids? How is this a special school when kids are taught the "basics" (academics) and how is this different than a magnet school in which a magnet school is open to how a child learns, not necessary sitting at desks? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two friends who sent their kids there and both have negative things to say about it.

Expand please.

Both of them felt that their kids were unprepared and behind when they moved to a private. Also some complaints about facilities and class size.

OP here, I'm curious what are these kids' age groups? MSNV has classrooms from 2.5 to 12 years old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two friends who sent their kids there and both have negative things to say about it.

Expand please.

Both of them felt that their kids were unprepared and behind when they moved to a private. Also some complaints about facilities and class size.

The class sizes are traditional Montessori class sizes - about 22-25 per class with 2 teachers. As for being prepared, I guess each kid is different. I am aware of more than one instance where a child left after primary to go to their local public only to come back for elementary because they were bored elsewhere. The school does place kids in many private, a number going to Burgundy, though many also opting for their neighborhood schools . That being the case, while I think the academics are very strong, I imagine it is very tough to go from an environment where kids do work on rugs, couches or under desks where they install lights to make nooks to having to sit still at a desk -- so that would make sense. The facilities were just renovated but PE does require they go to another gym for the older kids so that's a minus.

It's a very open community, so ask to go do an observation and while you are there, just grab a parent (there will be many around) and ask their views. Good luck!

Are parent volunteering hours mandatory? about how many hours? I see the tuition is higher than most Montessori schools and in June there's a donation required. Even though it's a donation, there's a differentiation between levels of donation, so I believe there's a level of pressure? There's no other discounts in tuition, so the average is about $1700 per month. How do ppl afford this? Especially if there are two or more kids? How is this a special school when kids are taught the "basics" (academics) and how is this different than a magnet school in which a magnet school is open to how a child learns, not necessary sitting at desks? Thanks!

Volunteer hours are mandatory- we have 2 kids enrolled and it's 25 hours total (I think one kid is less), which is really easy to fill when you consider a day field trip hits about 5 hrs. There are lots of opportunities to do things outside of the school too - hours for collating book orders or craft prep at home, washing the class hand towels one weekend, etc.

There is no required donation - not sure what you are seeing. There is an annual giving drive like most schools, but it is not required and not high sales like some other schools.

The cost of tuition is the cost. It's cheaper than most private schools in the area and I don't think it's materially more than other Montessori schools. It's worth it to us. I can't respond to the question of how people afford this - we do comfortabley, the school has financial aid, and in the end it's up to each family when choosing public or private to decide what is their comfortable spend. I don't think that issue is specific to this or any school, really.

[Anonymous]

Current parent.

I can echo the comments about it feeling cultish for the reason that you will generally feel you can't question the teachers or the approach to education. More so, it's the attitude that the teachers know better than you, and so therefore know what's best for your kid better than you do. This part was particularly frustrating for me. The administration is also bonkers. We've found it's something we just have to live with, but I'd say they are the worst part of the school.

What we loved was the attention and the environment. The outdoor spaces alone, and the amount of time they get to spend outdoors on their own exploring were huge selling points for us. I also think they do a great job instilling empathy, kindness, forgiveness, working on communication skills, etc.

I disagree, in our case, about the kids being academically prepared when they leave. It will depend entirely on your child and their temperament. If your child wants to do the life work or art all day long, they will be behind, which is what we found. Yes, they will attempt to redirect them, but there's only so much of that they can accomplish in a class of 22 kids. And I don't say behind in a tiger mom way, but my kid is 5 and would not be reading if we weren't working with her in private. And that would be acceptable, which I find odd.

We have overall been very happy with her experience there and would make the decision again to send her, but I couldn't imagine sending your kid to elementary or beyond the normal 3-year span.

[Anonymous]

Any feedback on MSNV summer camp? I tried the camp forum but didn't see anything.

[Anonymous]

Does any parent in elementary have had bad experience with this school?

[Anonymous]

We are in elementary and love it. Teachers are great and curriculum has worked for us. Some families who left after primary to go to neighborhood highly ranked public came back because their children weren't challenged. My child is 2 years above age in reading and 1 in math. Teachers are caring and responsive. Couldn't be happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current parent.

I can echo the comments about it feeling cultish for the reason that you will generally feel you can't question the teachers or the approach to education. More so, it's the attitude that the teachers know better than you, and so therefore know what's best for your kid better than you do. This part was particularly frustrating for me. The administration is also bonkers. We've found it's something we just have to live with, but I'd say they are the worst part of the school.

What we loved was the attention and the environment. The outdoor spaces alone, and the amount of time they get to spend outdoors on their own exploring were huge selling points for us. I also think they do a great job instilling empathy, kindness, forgiveness, working on communication skills, etc.

I disagree, in our case, about the kids being academically prepared when they leave. It will depend entirely on your child and their temperament. If your child wants to do the life work or art all day long, they will be behind, which is what we found. Yes, they will attempt to redirect them, but there's only so much of that they can accomplish in a class of 22 kids. And I don't say behind in a tiger mom way, but my kid is 5 and would not be reading if we weren't working with her in private. And that would be acceptable, which I find odd.

We have overall been very happy with her experience there and would make the decision again to send her, but I couldn't imagine sending your kid to elementary or beyond the normal 3-year span.

FWIW, not reading at five is acceptable in almost all preschool environments--that part isn't a Montessori thing, nor is it an expectation going into kindergarten (or even first grade) at other schools. It's great if your child is interested in learning on her own, but it's definitely not something most schools are pushing or that privates are assessing for entry. The large class sizes and the freedom to choose tasks are Montessori, and do have pros and cons, as described. The unwillingness to have parents question approach is also fairly typical of Montessori--when implemented with fidelity it's a very method-driven approach to education, and consequently is great for some families and not a good fit for others.