Is law school worth it nowadays?

[Anonymous]

What's the dcum consensus on the field? My niece is applying next year and I think it's a mistake, but I also feel as though it would be inappropriate to discourage her.

[Anonymous]

If you get into a top tier school, yes. Everyone else, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the dcum consensus on the field? My niece is applying next year and I think it's a mistake, but I also feel as though it would be inappropriate to discourage her.

Worth it for a top-10 (some will argue top-14) degree. Otherwise, I would steer clear unless there is some form of guaranteed employment at the end of the road (e.g., dad runs a solo practice). Don't do it for the money either as biglaw is a crapshoot, even from top schools. If she has a year before she begins applying and she's set on it, encourage her to get her LSAT score as high as possible. Undergrad GPA and LSAT score are the sole factors law schools consider in admissions.

[Anonymous]

No.

[Anonymous]

Only if it's a great school and only if she actually definitely WANTS to be a lawyer. The days of it being a diverse, widely respectable / transferable to multiple fields degree are long gone

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if it is now. I graduated UVA back in '09 and tuition then was like $33K per year. It's up to $56K now and it will probably increase while one is enrolled. Say average tuition is $60K per year x 3 years = $180K plus living expenses of let's say $10K per year (rent, utilities, food, etc.) = $210K total cost of attendance. I took a quick look and NYU is similar ($59K / year) and UPenn is also $59K per year. That's a fuck ton of loans that will accrue interest during school at approximately 6%.

[Anonymous]

If you can get in to a top 10 school - ok to go. Anything lower than that only go if you are receiving a significant scholarship. I would recommend doing something in the legal field before applying to see what lawyers really do. Many of my friends found out what lawyers do during their first summer job and were very surprised and not in a good way.

[Anonymous]

OP here. You all confirmed my fears. I don't imagine her getting into a T10, maybe a T14, but probably somewhere in the 20s. She's a biology major at an okay public school so her grades are probably not up to par. Does it help that she's a STEM major? I feel like she's being too idealistic about this and her parents are being too encouraging. Can I send them articles or is that too passive aggressive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. You all confirmed my fears. I don't imagine her getting into a T10, maybe a T14, but probably somewhere in the 20s. She's a biology major at an okay public school so her grades are probably not up to par. Does it help that she's a STEM major? I feel like she's being too idealistic about this and her parents are being too encouraging. Can I send them articles or is that too passive aggressive?

Suggest she look at schools that will give her merit aid. If she's not going to T10, at least the loans can be minimized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. You all confirmed my fears. I don't imagine her getting into a T10, maybe a T14, but probably somewhere in the 20s. She's a biology major at an okay public school so her grades are probably not up to par. Does it help that she's a STEM major? I feel like she's being too idealistic about this and her parents are being too encouraging. Can I send them articles or is that too passive aggressive?

NYT published several articles discussing the glut of lawyers/lack of jobs and impossible to pay off law school debt. I'm sure many lawyers today would have liked to know what they were getting themselves into. Alternatively, have her arrange an informational interview with a practicing attorney. I doubt anyone who started practicing in the last ten years would recommend the profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:. Can I send them articles or is that too passive aggressive?

Not appropriate unless you're a lawyer too, and even then you're pushing it.

I would only recommend law school if:
1. She really wants to be a lawyer and has an understanding of what that means.
2. She gets into a top 15 school or a top 80 school with a free ride.
3. She has realistic ideas of career prospects -- no dreams of fancy international law career, no sports law, etc.

-- law school professor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. You all confirmed my fears. I don't imagine her getting into a T10, maybe a T14, but probably somewhere in the 20s. She's a biology major at an okay public school so her grades are probably not up to par. Does it help that she's a STEM major? I feel like she's being too idealistic about this and her parents are being too encouraging. Can I send them articles or is that too passive aggressive?

Suggest she look at schools that will give her merit aid. If she's not going to T10, at least the loans can be minimized.

Minimized loans are fine but 9/10 those schools will not be worth the opportunity cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Can I send them articles or is that too passive aggressive?

Not appropriate unless you're a lawyer too, and even then you're pushing it.

I would only recommend law school if:
1. She really wants to be a lawyer and has an understanding of what that means.
2. She gets into a top 15 school or a top 80 school with a free ride.
3. She has realistic ideas of career prospects -- [/b]no dreams of fancy international law career, no sports law, etc.[b]

-- law school professor

Or coming straight out and making over 70k. There was a chart posted in another thread not so long ago showing the bi-modal salary distribution of recent law school graduates. You either make biglaw or 55k. Very little in between and those biglaw jobs are near impossible to get outside of the T14 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. You all confirmed my fears. I don't imagine her getting into a T10, maybe a T14, but probably somewhere in the 20s. She's a biology major at an okay public school so her grades are probably not up to par. Does it help that she's a STEM major? I feel like she's being too idealistic about this and her parents are being too encouraging. Can I send them articles or is that too passive aggressive?

NYT published several articles discussing the glut of lawyers/lack of jobs and impossible to pay off law school debt. I'm sure many lawyers today would have liked to know what they were getting themselves into. Alternatively, have her arrange an informational interview with a practicing attorney. I doubt anyone who started practicing in the last ten years would recommend the profession.

Op again. I think your idea about talking with a practicing attorney is a really great idea. I hadn't thought of that but I do have a a couple of friends that may work.

[Anonymous]

Definitely does not help that she's a STEM major, that really has nothing to do with law school or the skills valued there. That's a real switch in interests - why does she want to go to law school? I'm not sure your relationship with her / her parents and unfortunately it sounds like if you say anything it may we'll fall on deaf ears but personally I might consider saying something. That said, I think you should approach it once, say what you want to say, and then drop it. Also, you'll need to be careful how you approach it - coming at it from a "she probably won't get into a good enough school" is likely to not be taken well.

I think I'd focus more on what makes her think she wants to be a lawyer, what does she know about what lawyers actually do and what draws her to that, what does she know about the cost of law school / the legal market these days, etx.

It's a hard call. Having gone to law school myself, I think I'd feel obligated to talk it through with a family member considering it at at least make sure they were going in eyes wide open. It's hard to say what place your opinion has here (how it will be received), but biology -> law is an odd path and I'd certainly like to see her thinking about it more first.