Why not go out and start your own law firm?

[Anonymous]

How many lawyers out there actually go out and start there own firms? I am tired of the bellyaching I hear about the lack of opportunities for law school graduates. Go out and hang your shingle. I have friends who did this, after some years working in public defender offices, and they are now among the top white collar defense firms in the Northeast.

The lack of jobs tells you there is a market correction and that there are not as many lawyers needed out there, or there are certain practice areas that are just over subscribed as we have a definite crisis in criminal defense.

[Anonymous]

The kind of work you can do as a solo is very different than the kind of work you can do in a firm. For some that's a good thing. That being said I have a friend who was at a big NY firm and now is solo working with hedge and PE funds but she often has to go back to her old firm or others for particular areas of expertise. I have another friend who does IP work for some of her former big firm clients.

[Anonymous]

A law school graduate who can't get a job and has never practiced criminal law is not qualified to represent criminal defendants. The crisis in criminal defense stems from Defendants who can only afford shitty lawyers or a severely overworked public defender. Adding a bunch of unqualified criminal defense lawyers who are only doing criminal defense because they couldn't get any other job is not going to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many lawyers out there actually go out and start there own firms? I am tired of the bellyaching I hear about the lack of opportunities for law school graduates. Go out and hang your shingle. I have friends who did this, after some years working in public defender offices, and they are now among the top white collar defense firms in the Northeast.

The lack of jobs tells you there is a market correction and that there are not as many lawyers needed out there, or there are certain practice areas that are just over subscribed as we have a definite crisis in criminal defense.

I think the bellyaching comes from law grads who can't get that first job where they get training, mentoring, and experience needed to confidently go out on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many lawyers out there actually go out and start there own firms? I am tired of the bellyaching I hear about the lack of opportunities for law school graduates. Go out and hang your shingle. I have friends who did this, after some years working in public defender offices, and they are now among the top white collar defense firms in the Northeast.

The lack of jobs tells you there is a market correction and that there are not as many lawyers needed out there, or there are certain practice areas that are just over subscribed as we have a definite crisis in criminal defense.

You complain about new law school grads and then offer an example of a job...that wasn't obtained by new law school grads.

You need experience to open a solo practice. Getting that first job that gives you experience is the hard part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many lawyers out there actually go out and start there own firms? I am tired of the bellyaching I hear about the lack of opportunities for law school graduates. Go out and hang your shingle. I have friends who did this, after some years working in public defender offices, and they are now among the top white collar defense firms in the Northeast.

The lack of jobs tells you there is a market correction and that there are not as many lawyers needed out there, or there are certain practice areas that are just over subscribed as we have a definite crisis in criminal defense.

I think the bellyaching comes from law grads who can't get that first job where they get training, mentoring, and experience needed to confidently go out on their own.

+1

I certainly wouldn't hire a solo with no experience before going solo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A law school graduate who can't get a job and has never practiced criminal law is not qualified to represent criminal defendants. The crisis in criminal defense stems from Defendants who can only afford shitty lawyers or a severely overworked public defender. Adding a bunch of unqualified criminal defense lawyers who are only doing criminal defense because they couldn't get any other job is not going to help.

+1. There is a crisis because many criminal defendant are unable to afford a lawyer and the public defender systems is overburdened and underfunded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many lawyers out there actually go out and start there own firms? I am tired of the bellyaching I hear about the lack of opportunities for law school graduates. Go out and hang your shingle. I have friends who did this, after some years working in public defender offices, and they are now among the top white collar defense firms in the Northeast.

The lack of jobs tells you there is a market correction and that there are not as many lawyers needed out there, or there are certain practice areas that are just over subscribed as we have a definite crisis in criminal defense.

You complain about new law school grads and then offer an example of a job...that wasn't obtained by new law school grads.

You need experience to open a solo practice. Getting that first job that gives you experience is the hard part.

Exactly. Experience and connections. And maybe a little start-up capital.

[Anonymous]

Something not mentioned yet - law school does not teach you how to be a lawyer. So newly minted law grads need to learn how to lawyer, and the best place to do that is at an established firm. It is funny when you see job advertisements seeking "Attorney 1-3 years of experience," and in the job qualifications it will say, "Must have at least 2 years of experience handling motions, brief writing, defending depositions," etc. I feel bad for young lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Becoming a solo practitioner as a new graduate is a TERRIBLE idea. Malpractice at worst, incompetent at best.

OP knows nothing about the practice of law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A law school graduate who can't get a job and has never practiced criminal law is not qualified to represent criminal defendants. The crisis in criminal defense stems from Defendants who can only afford shitty lawyers or a severely overworked public defender. Adding a bunch of unqualified criminal defense lawyers who are only doing criminal defense because they couldn't get any other job is not going to help.

+1. There is a crisis because many criminal defendant are unable to afford a lawyer and the public defender systems is overburdened and underfunded.

It's hard for a law school grad to even apply for one of these public defender positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A law school graduate who can't get a job and has never practiced criminal law is not qualified to represent criminal defendants. The crisis in criminal defense stems from Defendants who can only afford shitty lawyers or a severely overworked public defender. Adding a bunch of unqualified criminal defense lawyers who are only doing criminal defense because they couldn't get any other job is not going to help.

+1. There is a crisis because many criminal defendant are unable to afford a lawyer and the public defender systems is overburdened and underfunded.

It's hard for a law school grad to even apply for one of these public defender positions.

100s of applications for a high-stress job that pays <65k

[Anonymous]

Owning your own company is kind of a PITA. Benefits, insurance, taxes, all that crap, a lawyer who could be billing $xxx per hour spending time on that is not efficient.

Yeah you can just "freelance" as an independent contractor but most clients are going to expect the nice office, cute receptionist, etc. Overhead costs come with that. It's more efficient to band together with other attorneys and pay cheap underlings to do the grunt work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A law school graduate who can't get a job and has never practiced criminal law is not qualified to represent criminal defendants. The crisis in criminal defense stems from Defendants who can only afford shitty lawyers or a severely overworked public defender. Adding a bunch of unqualified criminal defense lawyers who are only doing criminal defense because they couldn't get any other job is not going to help.

+1. There is a crisis because many criminal defendant are unable to afford a lawyer and the public defender systems is overburdened and underfunded.

It's hard for a law school grad to even apply for one of these public defender positions.

My mentor and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago. The Sixth Amendment simply guarantees a right to counsel. But only criminals benefit if that "right" turns into defense attorneys who litigate aggressively for their guilty clients. People lose confidence in law enforcement, and in courts as civil disputes wait for criminal backlogs to be cleared. Yet overworked defenders and lousy attorneys don't know how to put together a quick plea.

We decided that the prosecution needs to step in and decouple regular criminal defense from the Innocence Project and the Barry Schecks. DOJ could take some of the asset forfeiture money and form "plea squads" in every state in the nation. Take jobless attorneys and pay each a retainer of say $10k per annum. The attorneys need to attend a weeklong seminar at the Law Enforcement Training Center in Charleston on how to write up pleas quickly. Then get $500 a pop for each plea, with a bonus for ones that meet a standard for speed to resolution.

Now you need judges to appoint the plea squad to cases, but they'll do so because their productivity metrics will jump. The competition will also force the public defender cartel to put up or shut up. Finally, the criminals will get certainty in their future, and can start earlier on turning their lives around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A law school graduate who can't get a job and has never practiced criminal law is not qualified to represent criminal defendants. The crisis in criminal defense stems from Defendants who can only afford shitty lawyers or a severely overworked public defender. Adding a bunch of unqualified criminal defense lawyers who are only doing criminal defense because they couldn't get any other job is not going to help.

+1. There is a crisis because many criminal defendant are unable to afford a lawyer and the public defender systems is overburdened and underfunded.

It's hard for a law school grad to even apply for one of these public defender positions.

My mentor and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago. The Sixth Amendment simply guarantees a right to counsel. But only criminals benefit if that "right" turns into defense attorneys who litigate aggressively for their guilty clients. People lose confidence in law enforcement, and in courts as civil disputes wait for criminal backlogs to be cleared. Yet overworked defenders and lousy attorneys don't know how to put together a quick plea.

We decided that the prosecution needs to step in and decouple regular criminal defense from the Innocence Project and the Barry Schecks. DOJ could take some of the asset forfeiture money and form "plea squads" in every state in the nation. Take jobless attorneys and pay each a retainer of say $10k per annum. The attorneys need to attend a weeklong seminar at the Law Enforcement Training Center in Charleston on how to write up pleas quickly. Then get $500 a pop for each plea, with a bonus for ones that meet a standard for speed to resolution.

Now you need judges to appoint the plea squad to cases, but they'll do so because their productivity metrics will jump. The competition will also force the public defender cartel to put up or shut up. Finally, the criminals will get certainty in their future, and can start earlier on turning their lives around.

What the everloving fuck are you talking about? Most cases are already disposed of by plea. DOJ paying defense attorneys to quickly plead out as many cases as possible as fast as possible is maybe the worst idea I've ever heard. Talk about a *huge* conflict of interest and perverse incentives for defense attorneys--no investigation, just pressure your client to plead guilty fast, even if they have a real defense. And then the convictions start getting thrown out the window on collateral appeal on ineffective assistance claims.

As an actual federal prosecutor, I WANT defendants to be properly represented. I think the federal defenders should have *more* funding. Yes, they are aggressive litigators, but they are also usually very capable and professional and easy to deal with. They are repeat players, so they usually have regard for their reputation and credibility before the court. Certainly, it's much better than a defendant representing himself. I hate pro se cases. But "public defender cartel"? It must be nice on your planet.