Ruling on MCPS LGBT curriculum case coming this morning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious why the Jewish and Muslim families who supported this opt out do not see how this opens the way for parents to push for opting out of having kids read story books with Jewish or Muslim characters on the basis of the religious burden that including these characters might do to Christian kids. Christian parents can argue that seeing these characters at a young age could be burdensome to their religious beliefs and that they want to introduce their kids to the existence of these types of beliefs when they are older. I think people forget that respecting diversity that includes your beliefs also means respecting diversity that does not. Anyways, I get why male, straight, Christian conservative white nationalists would celebrate this ruling. I disagree, but it makes sense. For anyone not part of this group, I do not understand.

The plaintiffs were Muslim, Catholic, and Ukrainian Orthodox (not to say Orthodox Jews would necessarily approve of all these books either but almost none of them send their kids to public school in the first place). I'm not convinced most of the people on this thread have actually read the decision - people keep talking as if the case was decided when this was a preliminary injunction, getting random facts of the case wrong, etc so I'm just going to post the link again: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-297_4f14.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious why the Jewish and Muslim families who supported this opt out do not see how this opens the way for parents to push for opting out of having kids read story books with Jewish or Muslim characters on the basis of the religious burden that including these characters might do to Christian kids. Christian parents can argue that seeing these characters at a young age could be burdensome to their religious beliefs and that they want to introduce their kids to the existence of these types of beliefs when they are older. I think people forget that respecting diversity that includes your beliefs also means respecting diversity that does not. Anyways, I get why male, straight, Christian conservative white nationalists would celebrate this ruling. I disagree, but it makes sense. For anyone not part of this group, I do not understand.

The plaintiffs were Muslim, Catholic, and Ukrainian Orthodox (not to say Orthodox Jews would necessarily approve of all these books either but almost none of them send their kids to public school in the first place). I'm not convinced most of the people on this thread have actually read the decision - people keep talking as if the case was decided when this was a preliminary injunction, getting random facts of the case wrong, etc so I'm just going to post the link again: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-297_4f14.pdf

I did read it and what it shows it the extraordinarily sensitive sensibilities of those who are protesting these books. It truly opens up a very bad precedent which would have consequences for teaching things like evolution or even showing women in pants in books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I can’t believe any school system would be so bold to challenge parental rights like this. It’s disgusting behavior and says much about the people you entrust with your children! Very disturbing. Glad you won!

All you won was days off of school.

Nice try, but no.

The students who are opted out due to this ruling have to be treated exactly the same as students who opt out due to other issues allowed by MCPS. Otherwise, MCPS will see another lawsuit, and one with punitive damages to boot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the best way to normalize things is to *not* make such a big deal about it.

Like others have said, it’s 2025. Everyone on the planet can rattle off a long list of beloved gay celebs and many know a gay person IRL. Our state embraces gay marriage.

The fact that kids feel comfortable enough identifying as LGBTQ or non-binary or even as a furry demonstrates that our MoCo community is in fact a safe place.

So why drill down sooooo hard in the schools?

It’s not necessary…particularly at the K-5 level.

As a Gen X’er, I was raised in MoCo to embrace and celebrate diversity…and it seemed to work. My Gen X friends and coworkers have diverse friends groups and a “live and let live” mentality. It wasn’t until the post-George Floyd era that race and then gender identity became some bizarre tribal thing where everyone decamped into strictly defined—and let’s face it, self-segregated—groups followed by a hard push to drill down on special interest everything…including curricula.

Enough already.

Embrace and celebrity diversity. Easy peasy. But please focus on academics, civics, and just treating everyone with the same respect you would expect.

+1 I completely agree!

How do you embrace and celebrate diversity if we’re not allowed to read or discuss it in class? How do you discuss Civics without discussing the history that led to laws and practices being created or removed? How do you get kids to have respect for something without ever explaining it.

For example, a girl wears a hijab but some kid calls her weird and suggest she take it off. We tell the 2nd kid that’s not nice, but never explain to them that the girl and many others view it as an important part of their faith? But then when someone else comes along and starts screaming that they shouldn’t be allowed to wear hijabs, or that a young man can’t wear a Keffiyeh to graduation, then what? Will that 2nd kid have tolerance or will they return to, it’s weird and so it shouldn’t be allowed.? Meanwhile others will be allowed to wear a cross around their neck.

Good point.

ICYMI: when mcps removed all reference to religion—including Halloween which isn’t actually a religious holiday but somehow became offensive to some immigrant populations based on their religious beliefs—we painted ourselves into a bit of a corner when it comes to celebrating diversity. Instead of celebrating all diversity, mcps went all in on labeling people and lifting up certain groups while not mentioning others. (And some of the most vocal opponents to the lgbtq and other issues are actually not white Americans but other minority groups (whether racial or religious.))

A winter concert with a Christmas Carol, Hanukkah song, etc. celebrates diversity; but we aren’t allowed to celebrate that diversity anymore.

I’m all for discussing civics using real world examples. I had kids in mcps grade school when gay marriage finally became more widespread. It was discussed without needing a yearlong special curriculum.

The best way to celebrate diversity is to lump us all together as human beings…as Americans living in a melting pot where we respect everyone…even if we have different skin, religions, etc.

Honestly, I’ve never understood why anyone took issue with the lgbtq community. Who cares who you love? Why would bedroom practices ever need to be discussed by anyone? Who cares what name/pronouns/vibe you embrace? It really only seemed to become an issue when it went too far that it became a target. Interestingly, there are a lot of gay advocates who think this over-correction was predictable and could have been avoided. Even more interesting, some of those gay advocates blame straight allies pushing an agenda that the lgbtq (or at least the lgbt) community didn’t endorse…at least not so fast and to such a degree.

Exhibit A: I don’t know any gay parents who thought drag Queen reading books to kids was necessary or helpful.

But books in a library with two dads? Not a big deal. Nobody cares…because it’s 2025 and most kids know gay families/people or celebrities…especially in MoCo.

Hyperfixating on it made it a target. And it wasn’t necessary since MoCo has been a safe environment for decades.

[Anonymous]

this is also a useful overview if you want to listen to something:

https://crooked.com/podcast/can-religious-parents-veto-books-in-public-schools/

that was before the decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I can’t believe any school system would be so bold to challenge parental rights like this. It’s disgusting behavior and says much about the people you entrust with your children! Very disturbing. Glad you won!

All you won was days off of school.

Nice try, but no.

The students who are opted out due to this ruling have to be treated exactly the same as students who opt out due to other issues allowed by MCPS. Otherwise, MCPS will see another lawsuit, and one with punitive damages to boot.

but to avoid resource problems they should probably be grouped in a separate class, so they can just do their alternative prayer there, and not disrupt the curricula.

they don't want to be treated exactly the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious why the Jewish and Muslim families who supported this opt out do not see how this opens the way for parents to push for opting out of having kids read story books with Jewish or Muslim characters on the basis of the religious burden that including these characters might do to Christian kids. Christian parents can argue that seeing these characters at a young age could be burdensome to their religious beliefs and that they want to introduce their kids to the existence of these types of beliefs when they are older. I think people forget that respecting diversity that includes your beliefs also means respecting diversity that does not. Anyways, I get why male, straight, Christian conservative white nationalists would celebrate this ruling. I disagree, but it makes sense. For anyone not part of this group, I do not understand.

The plaintiffs were Muslim, Catholic, and Ukrainian Orthodox (not to say Orthodox Jews would necessarily approve of all these books either but almost none of them send their kids to public school in the first place). I'm not convinced most of the people on this thread have actually read the decision - people keep talking as if the case was decided when this was a preliminary injunction, getting random facts of the case wrong, etc so I'm just going to post the link again: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-297_4f14.pdf

Jewish orthodox generally send their kids to privates and there are a bunch in the area.

The lack of respect for others beliefs is what bothers me. I’m not religious but their views should be respected regardless of if one agrees or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I can’t believe any school system would be so bold to challenge parental rights like this. It’s disgusting behavior and says much about the people you entrust with your children! Very disturbing. Glad you won!

All you won was days off of school.

Nice try, but no.

The students who are opted out due to this ruling have to be treated exactly the same as students who opt out due to other issues allowed by MCPS. Otherwise, MCPS will see another lawsuit, and one with punitive damages to boot.

but to avoid resource problems they should probably be grouped in a separate class, so they can just do their alternative prayer there, and not disrupt the curricula.

they don't want to be treated exactly the same.

Racism at its best. Separate but allegedly equal.

[Anonymous]

I'm an MCPS elementary school teacher and I have used Uncle Bobby's Wedding and Prince and Knight in my classroom to teach grade level literacy standards. We used these texts to sequence plot events, describe characters, and to compare with other stories. No teacher that I know uses these texts to teach about different family structures.

We have had units in our curriculum that provide read alouds featuring only white characters. I have substituted those texts as well, to show more diversity. (A version of Hansel and Gretel that takes place in Africa, Jack and the Beanstalk with a female heroine, Rapunzel with a Chinese main character, a folktale from Pakistan with a protagonist in a hijab, etc.)

If parents object to their children being exposed to stories, that makes me sad. The two-parent, hetero-normative life experience is NOT the experience of every family, and every child deserves to see themselves represented in the literature they read at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the best way to normalize things is to *not* make such a big deal about it.

Like others have said, it’s 2025. Everyone on the planet can rattle off a long list of beloved gay celebs and many know a gay person IRL. Our state embraces gay marriage.

The fact that kids feel comfortable enough identifying as LGBTQ or non-binary or even as a furry demonstrates that our MoCo community is in fact a safe place.

So why drill down sooooo hard in the schools?

It’s not necessary…particularly at the K-5 level.

As a Gen X’er, I was raised in MoCo to embrace and celebrate diversity…and it seemed to work. My Gen X friends and coworkers have diverse friends groups and a “live and let live” mentality. It wasn’t until the post-George Floyd era that race and then gender identity became some bizarre tribal thing where everyone decamped into strictly defined—and let’s face it, self-segregated—groups followed by a hard push to drill down on special interest everything…including curricula.

Enough already.

Embrace and celebrity diversity. Easy peasy. But please focus on academics, civics, and just treating everyone with the same respect you would expect.

+1 I completely agree!

How do you embrace and celebrate diversity if we’re not allowed to read or discuss it in class? How do you discuss Civics without discussing the history that led to laws and practices being created or removed? How do you get kids to have respect for something without ever explaining it.

For example, a girl wears a hijab but some kid calls her weird and suggest she take it off. We tell the 2nd kid that’s not nice, but never explain to them that the girl and many others view it as an important part of their faith? But then when someone else comes along and starts screaming that they shouldn’t be allowed to wear hijabs, or that a young man can’t wear a Keffiyeh to graduation, then what? Will that 2nd kid have tolerance or will they return to, it’s weird and so it shouldn’t be allowed.? Meanwhile others will be allowed to wear a cross around their neck.

Good point.

ICYMI: when mcps removed all reference to religion—including Halloween which isn’t actually a religious holiday but somehow became offensive to some immigrant populations based on their religious beliefs—we painted ourselves into a bit of a corner when it comes to celebrating diversity. Instead of celebrating all diversity, mcps went all in on labeling people and lifting up certain groups while not mentioning others. (And some of the most vocal opponents to the lgbtq and other issues are actually not white Americans but other minority groups (whether racial or religious.))

A winter concert with a Christmas Carol, Hanukkah song, etc. celebrates diversity; but we aren’t allowed to celebrate that diversity anymore.

I’m all for discussing civics using real world examples. I had kids in mcps grade school when gay marriage finally became more widespread. It was discussed without needing a yearlong special curriculum.

The best way to celebrate diversity is to lump us all together as human beings…as Americans living in a melting pot where we respect everyone…even if we have different skin, religions, etc.

Honestly, I’ve never understood why anyone took issue with the lgbtq community. Who cares who you love? Why would bedroom practices ever need to be discussed by anyone? Who cares what name/pronouns/vibe you embrace? It really only seemed to become an issue when it went too far that it became a target. Interestingly, there are a lot of gay advocates who think this over-correction was predictable and could have been avoided. Even more interesting, some of those gay advocates blame straight allies pushing an agenda that the lgbtq (or at least the lgbt) community didn’t endorse…at least not so fast and to such a degree.

Exhibit A: I don’t know any gay parents who thought drag Queen reading books to kids was necessary or helpful.

But books in a library with two dads? Not a big deal. Nobody cares…because it’s 2025 and most kids know gay families/people or celebrities…especially in MoCo.

Hyperfixating on it made it a target. And it wasn’t necessary since MoCo has been a safe environment for decades.

Our band plays Christmas songs and kids are expected to wear Santa hats. We went along with it but it was very uncomfortable. When our school celebrated Halloween they had a separate basic party for the kids who don’t. Most people don’t have an issue with LGBT so the constant in your face programming is silly. They should do a lesson or two a year, as well as with other groups and be done with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I can’t believe any school system would be so bold to challenge parental rights like this. It’s disgusting behavior and says much about the people you entrust with your children! Very disturbing. Glad you won!

All you won was days off of school.

Nice try, but no.

The students who are opted out due to this ruling have to be treated exactly the same as students who opt out due to other issues allowed by MCPS. Otherwise, MCPS will see another lawsuit, and one with punitive damages to boot.

but to avoid resource problems they should probably be grouped in a separate class, so they can just do their alternative prayer there, and not disrupt the curricula.

they don't want to be treated exactly the same.

Racism at its best. Separate but allegedly equal.

racism would imply race. this is separation based on their choices, not on any innate characteristics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an MCPS elementary school teacher and I have used Uncle Bobby's Wedding and Prince and Knight in my classroom to teach grade level literacy standards. We used these texts to sequence plot events, describe characters, and to compare with other stories. No teacher that I know uses these texts to teach about different family structures.

We have had units in our curriculum that provide read alouds featuring only white characters. I have substituted those texts as well, to show more diversity. (A version of Hansel and Gretel that takes place in Africa, Jack and the Beanstalk with a female heroine, Rapunzel with a Chinese main character, a folktale from Pakistan with a protagonist in a hijab, etc.)

If parents object to their children being exposed to stories, that makes me sad. The two-parent, hetero-normative life experience is NOT the experience of every family, and every child deserves to see themselves represented in the literature they read at school.

This is the corner MCPS painted themselves into by using curricular choices to push a political agenda as opposed to just simple representation at the ECE level. “Heather Has Two Mommies” is very different from “Pride Puppy.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the best way to normalize things is to *not* make such a big deal about it.

Like others have said, it’s 2025. Everyone on the planet can rattle off a long list of beloved gay celebs and many know a gay person IRL. Our state embraces gay marriage.

The fact that kids feel comfortable enough identifying as LGBTQ or non-binary or even as a furry demonstrates that our MoCo community is in fact a safe place.

So why drill down sooooo hard in the schools?

It’s not necessary…particularly at the K-5 level.

As a Gen X’er, I was raised in MoCo to embrace and celebrate diversity…and it seemed to work. My Gen X friends and coworkers have diverse friends groups and a “live and let live” mentality. It wasn’t until the post-George Floyd era that race and then gender identity became some bizarre tribal thing where everyone decamped into strictly defined—and let’s face it, self-segregated—groups followed by a hard push to drill down on special interest everything…including curricula.

Enough already.

Embrace and celebrity diversity. Easy peasy. But please focus on academics, civics, and just treating everyone with the same respect you would expect.

+1 I completely agree!

How do you embrace and celebrate diversity if we’re not allowed to read or discuss it in class? How do you discuss Civics without discussing the history that led to laws and practices being created or removed? How do you get kids to have respect for something without ever explaining it.

For example, a girl wears a hijab but some kid calls her weird and suggest she take it off. We tell the 2nd kid that’s not nice, but never explain to them that the girl and many others view it as an important part of their faith? But then when someone else comes along and starts screaming that they shouldn’t be allowed to wear hijabs, or that a young man can’t wear a Keffiyeh to graduation, then what? Will that 2nd kid have tolerance or will they return to, it’s weird and so it shouldn’t be allowed.? Meanwhile others will be allowed to wear a cross around their neck.

Mcps is ok with girls being bullied for a hijab. They are also ok with Swasticas everywhere. They will make a quick statement and that’s it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the transcript of oral argument for this case. Search for “puppy” to see the discussion.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/2024/24-297_p8k0.pdf

lol a woman in a leather jacket!?? How demented are these religious right people that they see a leather jacket and they think sex or bondage? Oh my God!

You can have all the tantrums you want, but that doesn’t change the transcript.

Candidly the district lost the entire case in oral argument because they came across as unprepared and stupid.

Actually, if you read the whole case on Montgomery County Public school said that they could not manage tons of children opting out because they didn’t have the staff to manage it.

The Supreme Court actually agreed with them and said that kids can stay home and have an excused absence.

So they didn’t actually totally lose. They do not have to provide alternate plans.

The Supreme Court said no such thing.

And you're a teacher?

[Anonymous]

see, the people thinking there is 'constant in your face programming' seem to be hysterical, in my mind. my kids go to MCPS. there hasn't been anything AT ALL in years that celebrates pride or anything. at most there are a couple books along the way with some gay or trans characters. it's really a nothing-burger.