Viers Mill/Loiderman/Wheaton cluster

[Anonymous]

We're starting our house hunt and the neighborhoods that feed into Viers Mill/Loiderman/Wheaton seem to fit our budget. I searched the forums but did not see any recent information about these schools, particularly the elementary school (We have a 20 month old son).

How are the schools?
How is the neighborhood "feel"?
What's the commute like to DC-- Farragut North?
Are there things to walk to?

TIA!

[Anonymous]

Viers Mill is a focus school, which means it has smaller classes in K-2 due to a higher poverty level at the school. This has pros and cons, obviously. The former principal, who was very well regarded, was promoted. Last year's principal did not survive for a second year, so hopefully someone can chime in to say how the new principal is doing.

The Loiderman middle school has the only arts magnet in the County. Wheaton High School has some special magnet programs, and is part of the DCC (down county consortium). I do not think Wheaton is generally considered the most desirable school in the DCC.

[Anonymous]

I know several families who attend the arts immersion middle school and they seem very happy with it. Several families I spoke with came from out of bounds for the program, and said they sought it out after being in a "bad" elementary school experience, which I took to mean that their quirky or artistic kids did not thrive in their elementary school but are doing well at the arts program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Viers Mill is a focus school, which means it has smaller classes in K-2 due to a higher poverty level at the school. This has pros and cons, obviously. The former principal, who was very well regarded, was promoted. Last year's principal did not survive for a second year, so hopefully someone can chime in to say how the new principal is doing.

The Loiderman middle school has the only arts magnet in the County. Wheaton High School has some special magnet programs, and is part of the DCC (down county consortium). I do not think Wheaton is generally considered the most desirable school in the DCC.

New principal is doing very well. Well-liked by staff and parents, even though he is young and inexperienced. He seems to know what he doesn't know and is eager to learn (last year's principal's was older and experienced, but refused to admit that he was totally lost.) He implemented a new program this year for incoming kindergartner parents (kids will attend K in 2017-18) so that parents have the chance to observe K classes in progress, get a tour of the school, and have questions answered in a small group setting. There have been 2 or 3 so far, and will be a few more before K orientation. There is also a summer "camp" program for 2-3 weeks. It's not free like Title I ELO, but it's a preview of the first quarter of the upcoming grade and the students get to do some fun projects.

Kindergarten classes have 14-16 students this year, and relatively the same numbers for 1st and 2nd. Upper grades are more crowded, with about 25 per class. There is little turnover and changes in the number of classrooms per grade have usually meant that teachers shift grades. For example, last year 2nd grade teachers moved to 5th grade voluntarily when their positions were cut, rather than leave the school. There are several after school activities. Soccer, yoga, and karate are the most popular and constant, but there are also different science and music classes that are taught by outside vendors. The upper grades have a pretty dedicated chess team that just placed 7th out of all Maryland schools at the championship this weekend.

The PTA is relatively strong and is working on reaching out to all families, especially the Spanish-speaking parents who may have felt like they were on the sidelines before. I feel like there is a strong family presence in the building. Reading here, it seems like a lot of schools discourage parental involvement, and that is not the case at Viers Mill. Parents are welcomed to volunteer in the classroom.

After care is not great, but not horrific. Global gets a lot of complaints on DCUM, and the VM location was put on notice to get it together. There have been some changes, but it still could be improved. The good news is that people seem aware of the issues, and if they aren't resolved, they will probably not get their contract renewed.

Which neighborhood are you looking at? My guess is Holiday Park (walk to school) or Randolph Hills (ride the bus). Both are full of young families with a good community feel. It seems like some do move out of the area when the kids get to upper grades. I think that's more of just how it is when you're starting out and then later can afford more house, and not a reflection of the school, but it does exist.

For middle school, Viers Mill is part of the Middle School Magnet Consortium, which is three schools that each have a whole-school magnet specialty. Fifth graders rank their choices and are placed based on that, so even if Loiederman is closest, you're not automatically going there. Loiederman is visual and performing arts, Parkland is aerospace technology, and Argyle is digital design. For high school, the Downcounty Consortium does have home schools (Wheaton, in this case) but students can apply via lottery for a different school based on programs they're interested in, or for some test-in programs. Wheaton is moving up quickly, especially with its biomedical program. It's tough to say what things will look like in 13 years. I think Kennedy is really the only school left in the DCC that "nobody wants" (though I'm sure there are students there who are happy). Blair, Northwood, and Einstein are the other choices.

Overall, Viers Mill is going through some growing pains and has had a rough couple of years with the changes in administration and the loss of Title I. Under the longtime principal's direction, the school had amazing success, got the Blue Ribbon (first Title I school in MCPS to do so), had a visit from the President, and was a Great Schools ranking of 8 or 9. That ranking dropped a bit when the MSA switched over to PARCC and new strategies had to be worked out. After the principal was promoted, an acting principal was put in place who did not get a second year. Then last year's principal was brought in from another county, and failed miserably. So now VM is on its 4th principal in 4 years, so some adjustment is to be expected. But it looks like this one is here to stay and is making a positive impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Viers Mill is a focus school, which means it has smaller classes in K-2 due to a higher poverty level at the school. This has pros and cons, obviously. The former principal, who was very well regarded, was promoted. Last year's principal did not survive for a second year, so hopefully someone can chime in to say how the new principal is doing.

The Loiderman middle school has the only arts magnet in the County. Wheaton High School has some special magnet programs, and is part of the DCC (down county consortium). I do not think Wheaton is generally considered the most desirable school in the DCC.

New principal is doing very well. Well-liked by staff and parents, even though he is young and inexperienced. He seems to know what he doesn't know and is eager to learn (last year's principal's was older and experienced, but refused to admit that he was totally lost.) He implemented a new program this year for incoming kindergartner parents (kids will attend K in 2017-18) so that parents have the chance to observe K classes in progress, get a tour of the school, and have questions answered in a small group setting. There have been 2 or 3 so far, and will be a few more before K orientation. There is also a summer "camp" program for 2-3 weeks. It's not free like Title I ELO, but it's a preview of the first quarter of the upcoming grade and the students get to do some fun projects.

Kindergarten classes have 14-16 students this year, and relatively the same numbers for 1st and 2nd. Upper grades are more crowded, with about 25 per class. There is little turnover and changes in the number of classrooms per grade have usually meant that teachers shift grades. For example, last year 2nd grade teachers moved to 5th grade voluntarily when their positions were cut, rather than leave the school. There are several after school activities. Soccer, yoga, and karate are the most popular and constant, but there are also different science and music classes that are taught by outside vendors. The upper grades have a pretty dedicated chess team that just placed 7th out of all Maryland schools at the championship this weekend.

The PTA is relatively strong and is working on reaching out to all families, especially the Spanish-speaking parents who may have felt like they were on the sidelines before. I feel like there is a strong family presence in the building. Reading here, it seems like a lot of schools discourage parental involvement, and that is not the case at Viers Mill. Parents are welcomed to volunteer in the classroom.

After care is not great, but not horrific. Global gets a lot of complaints on DCUM, and the VM location was put on notice to get it together. There have been some changes, but it still could be improved. The good news is that people seem aware of the issues, and if they aren't resolved, they will probably not get their contract renewed.

Which neighborhood are you looking at? My guess is Holiday Park (walk to school) or Randolph Hills (ride the bus). Both are full of young families with a good community feel. It seems like some do move out of the area when the kids get to upper grades. I think that's more of just how it is when you're starting out and then later can afford more house, and not a reflection of the school, but it does exist.

For middle school, Viers Mill is part of the Middle School Magnet Consortium, which is three schools that each have a whole-school magnet specialty. Fifth graders rank their choices and are placed based on that, so even if Loiederman is closest, you're not automatically going there. Loiederman is visual and performing arts, Parkland is aerospace technology, and Argyle is digital design. For high school, the Downcounty Consortium does have home schools (Wheaton, in this case) but students can apply via lottery for a different school based on programs they're interested in, or for some test-in programs. Wheaton is moving up quickly, especially with its biomedical program. It's tough to say what things will look like in 13 years. I think Kennedy is really the only school left in the DCC that "nobody wants" (though I'm sure there are students there who are happy). Blair, Northwood, and Einstein are the other choices.

Overall, Viers Mill is going through some growing pains and has had a rough couple of years with the changes in administration and the loss of Title I. Under the longtime principal's direction, the school had amazing success, got the Blue Ribbon (first Title I school in MCPS to do so), had a visit from the President, and was a Great Schools ranking of 8 or 9. That ranking dropped a bit when the MSA switched over to PARCC and new strategies had to be worked out. After the principal was promoted, an acting principal was put in place who did not get a second year. Then last year's principal was brought in from another county, and failed miserably. So now VM is on its 4th principal in 4 years, so some adjustment is to be expected. But it looks like this one is here to stay and is making a positive impact.

OP here. Thank you so much for this detailed analysis. I really appreciate it! It's hard to know what my kid is going to need out of school in 4, 10, 15 years, but I like the idea of magnet middle schools in theory. I'm not heartened by the turnover of principals. I also am not sure I prefer a school that is more than half hispanic, but the houses in Holiday Park and Randolph seem nicer (at least online) for the same price point in the Rockville or some other SS neighborhoods, so maybe that's a compromise we'll make. We'll see.

We are Jewish-- do you know if there are other Jewish families at Viers Mill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


OP here. Thank you so much for this detailed analysis. I really appreciate it! It's hard to know what my kid is going to need out of school in 4, 10, 15 years, but I like the idea of magnet middle schools in theory. I'm not heartened by the turnover of principals. I also am not sure I prefer a school that is more than half hispanic, but the houses in Holiday Park and Randolph seem nicer (at least online) for the same price point in the Rockville or some other SS neighborhoods, so maybe that's a compromise we'll make. We'll see.

We are Jewish-- do you know if there are other Jewish families at Viers Mill?

OP, my kids are white, and as white kids, they have always been minorities at their majority minority MCPS schools. Four schools so far (two elementary, one middle, one high). They think that this is just normal life -- because it is just normal life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


OP here. Thank you so much for this detailed analysis. I really appreciate it! It's hard to know what my kid is going to need out of school in 4, 10, 15 years, but I like the idea of magnet middle schools in theory. I'm not heartened by the turnover of principals. I also am not sure I prefer a school that is more than half hispanic, but the houses in Holiday Park and Randolph seem nicer (at least online) for the same price point in the Rockville or some other SS neighborhoods, so maybe that's a compromise we'll make. We'll see.

We are Jewish-- do you know if there are other Jewish families at Viers Mill?

OP, my kids are white, and as white kids, they have always been minorities at their majority minority MCPS schools. Four schools so far (two elementary, one middle, one high). They think that this is just normal life -- because it is just normal life.

I know. But I also know how hard it is to be the only one in your type of minority (Jewish). Ideally, I'd like my son to have a balance. Not sure if that's going to happen at school, or if we'll just expose him to Judaism through Sunday school and camps.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, if you are Jewish I would focus elsewhere so that your child has Jewish peers. We live in SS. There is usually only a few kids in each grade who are Jewish. And that is more than you would have at Viers Mill.

[Anonymous]

Whats your budget OP? Could you buy a smaller house in the Wootton cluster? Large Jewish population.

[Anonymous]

My DS attends a Jewish summer camp and he has quite a few camp friends who live in Olney and also Gaithersburg (Quince Orchard cluster). You may want to look at those areas also.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you so much for this detailed analysis. I really appreciate it! It's hard to know what my kid is going to need out of school in 4, 10, 15 years, but I like the idea of magnet middle schools in theory. I'm not heartened by the turnover of principals. I also am not sure I prefer a school that is more than half hispanic, but the houses in Holiday Park and Randolph seem nicer (at least online) for the same price point in the Rockville or some other SS neighborhoods, so maybe that's a compromise we'll make. We'll see.

We are Jewish-- do you know if there are other Jewish families at Viers Mill?

Yikes. Are you still appreciative of my detailed analysis if I tell you that I am Hispanic and my kids make up part of that demographic that you're concerned about? Lots of us are pretty normal and intelligent people, and so are our kids. If you want to live in Silver Spring or Rockville, you can't really escape us.

I don't think there's a huge Jewish population, but there are some. Certainly not going to be as high as in some other clusters, like at Wootton, but it's not non-existent. Off the top of my head, I can name a handful of Jewish families in my kids' grades, and I certainly don't know all the students.

I think the principal turnover was mostly bad luck--the first "new" one was hired mid-summer, after the chosen candidate was offered a higher position, and was just not ready for the job. The second one talked a great game and made a good impression, but had no follow-through. It was a risk hiring from outside the county. Current one seems like he's going to stick, and he's pretty good.

[Anonymous]

Ah, the infamous poor white people who want a unicorn - a single family home for under $350K, but where white people are the majority.

Good luck with that, OP.

[Anonymous]

I live in Holiday Park (DH is AA and I am Caucasian). We love the neighborhood because of the affordability, diversity, and proximity to things like Rock Creek Trail, public transit, and such. My DD does not attend VMES because I work at a private school and prefer our school hours. Since we have to leave the house by 7 am I prefer DD to go straight to school and start classes versus being in the Global before care for 2 hours before school. I love that my DD gets her 2 hours of playtime outdoors after-school. If MCPS adjusted the bell times we would seriously consider switching her to VMES.

As for the poster that said the OP was searching for homes under 350k, this neighborhood has already surpassed that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP, my kids are white, and as white kids, they have always been minorities at their majority minority MCPS schools. Four schools so far (two elementary, one middle, one high). They think that this is just normal life -- because it is just normal life.

I know. But I also know how hard it is to be the only one in your type of minority (Jewish). Ideally, I'd like my son to have a balance. Not sure if that's going to happen at school, or if we'll just expose him to Judaism through Sunday school and camps.

I'm the PP. I'm also Jewish. I think that you should think about what you mean when you say "have a balance", in this context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Holiday Park (DH is AA and I am Caucasian). We love the neighborhood because of the affordability, diversity, and proximity to things like Rock Creek Trail, public transit, and such. My DD does not attend VMES because I work at a private school and prefer our school hours. Since we have to leave the house by 7 am I prefer DD to go straight to school and start classes versus being in the Global before care for 2 hours before school. I love that my DD gets her 2 hours of playtime outdoors after-school. If MCPS adjusted the bell times we would seriously consider switching her to VMES.

As for the poster that said the OP was searching for homes under 350k, this neighborhood has already surpassed that!

I'm that poster and should clarify that I wasn't trying to snark on Holiday Park. I also live in SS, in a neighborhood where the homes are under $600K. I was, however, snarking on OP for wanting to live somewhere affordable but not to have her kids be in anything like a minority.