GDS 7th grade algebra question

[Anonymous]

Is a kid better off as a top student in regular math or a middling student in algebra?

[Anonymous]

Does GDS make a recommendation? My DS is in 6th grade at another school and I believe they are going to place kids in algebra or pre-algebra depending on their metrics and what they think of your kid. Algebra is hard - your kid should do it only if recommended and your kid will be able to get it. 8th grade algebra is fine.

[Anonymous]

DC is at another middle school but did algebra in 7th grade, which meant skipping 6th grade math. As a result, she was not as solid as she should have been on some foundational skills. She lacked the automaticity in manipulating things like fractions and negative numbers that comes with real mastery of the concepts AND repetition. She is a top math student (99th percentile SSAT), so it worked out, but I wish the world were such that we could comfortably keep our smart but not math-whiz-smart kids on the regular track without fearing that they are falling behind.

Second DC will not be accelerated. He could probably hack it and be somewhere in the middle, but I think he will benefit more from acquiring a solid foundation and from the confidence that comes with being near the top of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is at another middle school but did algebra in 7th grade, which meant skipping 6th grade math. As a result, she was not as solid as she should have been on some foundational skills. She lacked the automaticity in manipulating things like fractions and negative numbers that comes with real mastery of the concepts AND repetition. She is a top math student (99th percentile SSAT), so it worked out, but I wish the world were such that we could comfortably keep our smart but not math-whiz-smart kids on the regular track without fearing that they are falling behind.

Second DC will not be accelerated. He could probably hack it and be somewhere in the middle, but I think he will benefit more from acquiring a solid foundation and from the confidence that comes with being near the top of the class.

+1000 Former TAG math teacher here who agrees with the above. I also personally know TWO 'unhooked' high school seniors who were accepted to Ivy league schools this year and who did not take Calculus in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is at another middle school but did algebra in 7th grade, which meant skipping 6th grade math. As a result, she was not as solid as she should have been on some foundational skills. She lacked the automaticity in manipulating things like fractions and negative numbers that comes with real mastery of the concepts AND repetition. She is a top math student (99th percentile SSAT), so it worked out, but I wish the world were such that we could comfortably keep our smart but not math-whiz-smart kids on the regular track without fearing that they are falling behind.

Second DC will not be accelerated. He could probably hack it and be somewhere in the middle, but I think he will benefit more from acquiring a solid foundation and from the confidence that comes with being near the top of the class.

+1000 Former TAG math teacher here who agrees with the above. I also personally know TWO 'unhooked' high school seniors who were accepted to Ivy league schools this year and who did not take Calculus in high school.

Thank you for sharing that. I am of the mind of the PP...build a foundation by moving DC at his own level, which does not have him on track for calculus. I know it's the right thing to do, but have a hard time always feeling like we did the right thing. We don't have Ivies specifically as our goal, but top 20-25 school would be great. He's super smart and hard working, but probably won't have calculus.
So thanks again for the encouraging information!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is at another middle school but did algebra in 7th grade, which meant skipping 6th grade math. As a result, she was not as solid as she should have been on some foundational skills. She lacked the automaticity in manipulating things like fractions and negative numbers that comes with real mastery of the concepts AND repetition. She is a top math student (99th percentile SSAT), so it worked out, but I wish the world were such that we could comfortably keep our smart but not math-whiz-smart kids on the regular track without fearing that they are falling behind.

Second DC will not be accelerated. He could probably hack it and be somewhere in the middle, but I think he will benefit more from acquiring a solid foundation and from the confidence that comes with being near the top of the class.

+1000 Former TAG math teacher here who agrees with the above. I also personally know TWO 'unhooked' high school seniors who were accepted to Ivy league schools this year and who did not take Calculus in high school.

Thank you for sharing that. I am of the mind of the PP...build a foundation by moving DC at his own level, which does not have him on track for calculus. I know it's the right thing to do, but have a hard time always feeling like we did the right thing. We don't have Ivies specifically as our goal, but top 20-25 school would be great. He's super smart and hard working, but probably won't have calculus.
So thanks again for the encouraging information!

You're welcome. So many people get hung up on the Calculus question but it is not something that is absolutely necessary for acceptance into an Ivy or a top 25 school. At this point I have or have had multiple students at all of the Ivies and top 25 as well as a host of other schools. IMO a strong foundation now will serve your child better than a weak knowledge of algebra, which is the nexus for all higher level math. Of course, grades matter and one can argue that a weighted GPS for a 100 in AP Calc is better than a 100 in AP Stats or a 100 in AP Pre-Calc but I think that at that point you're arguing hundredths of a point, and most students are not going to swing a 100 in either class anyway. In any event, do what is best for your student now. S/he will always be able to do a summer school class in geometry or pre-calc in high school if AP Calc becomes an imperative. Keep an eye on the horizon for sure but the rest will come! Best wishes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is at another middle school but did algebra in 7th grade, which meant skipping 6th grade math. As a result, she was not as solid as she should have been on some foundational skills. She lacked the automaticity in manipulating things like fractions and negative numbers that comes with real mastery of the concepts AND repetition. She is a top math student (99th percentile SSAT), so it worked out, but I wish the world were such that we could comfortably keep our smart but not math-whiz-smart kids on the regular track without fearing that they are falling behind.

Second DC will not be accelerated. He could probably hack it and be somewhere in the middle, but I think he will benefit more from acquiring a solid foundation and from the confidence that comes with being near the top of the class.

+1000 Former TAG math teacher here who agrees with the above. I also personally know TWO 'unhooked' high school seniors who were accepted to Ivy league schools this year and who did not take Calculus in high school.

Thank you for sharing that. I am of the mind of the PP...build a foundation by moving DC at his own level, which does not have him on track for calculus. I know it's the right thing to do, but have a hard time always feeling like we did the right thing. We don't have Ivies specifically as our goal, but top 20-25 school would be great. He's super smart and hard working, but probably won't have calculus.
So thanks again for the encouraging information!

You're welcome. So many people get hung up on the Calculus question but it is not something that is absolutely necessary for acceptance into an Ivy or a top 25 school. At this point I have or have had multiple students at all of the Ivies and top 25 as well as a host of other schools. IMO a strong foundation now will serve your child better than a weak knowledge of algebra, which is the nexus for all higher level math. Of course, grades matter and one can argue that a weighted GPS for a 100 in AP Calc is better than a 100 in AP Stats or a 100 in AP Pre-Calc but I think that at that point you're arguing hundredths of a point, and most students are not going to swing a 100 in either class anyway. In any event, do what is best for your student now. S/he will always be able to do a summer school class in geometry or pre-calc in high school if AP Calc becomes an imperative. Keep an eye on the horizon for sure but the rest will come! Best wishes!

Oops. Meant Honors Pre-calc, not AP Pre-calc!

[Anonymous]

I mean aren't these kids all taking Calc senior year regardless?

Geometry in 9th (for kids taking Alg. in 8th)
Algebra 2 in 10th
Pre-cal in 11th
Calculus in 12th

So taking Algebra in 7th grade really just means you have to take Calculus in 11th grade and an even harder math class senior year, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean aren't these kids all taking Calc senior year regardless?

Geometry in 9th (for kids taking Alg. in 8th)
Algebra 2 in 10th
Pre-cal in 11th
Calculus in 12th

So taking Algebra in 7th grade really just means you have to take Calculus in 11th grade and an even harder math class senior year, right?

One of our children took Calculus AB in 11th grade and Calculus BC in 12th grade. He regrets that he did not take more Geometry in high school. But he has also observed that some Calculus background is necessary for most students who intend to major in the hard Sciences, Mathematics, Economics, or even the Social Sciences. He attends a "Big 3" of private colleges and has observed some peers drop out the easier Economics courses - and certainly not attempt the harder ones - because they just did not have the Calculus background necessary to successfully undertake the coursework. It would be a shame if a student had to drop a concentration because they did not have the foundation for it. My other student took Calculus BC in 11th grade, and even more difficult classes in 12th, but they are majoring in the hard Sciences. My third student will take it more slowly, but similarly hopes to culminate with either Calculus AB or Calculus BC in 12th grade.

[Anonymous]

Dc took Algebra 1 in 7th
Hon Geometry 8th
Hon Algebra 2 in 9th
Hon Pre calc 10th
Ap calc 11th
Ap stats in 12th

In ivy in engineering.

Hope that helps.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP that made the list. Really my point was that everyone is taking at least one Calculus class by end of high school. For kids who might specialize in a math related field, I get why that might not be enough. But maybe neither of my kids will as they have different interests. My HS DS is taking the courseload I suggest meaning Honors Calc in 12th grade. More than enough for him. I think my younger DS might qualify for 7th grade algebra (he's in 6th now and awaiting recommendation) but I'm definitely not going to push if they don't recommend - it probably won't be his field of interest either.

[Anonymous]

Another vote for taking the courses that will let you complete at the very least Calculus AB by 12th grade. Though of course the more advanced students will complete Calculus BC by 11th grade and move beyond that in 12th, as discussed above. In my opinion a basic high school Calculus course is an important foundation for many college majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is at another middle school but did algebra in 7th grade, which meant skipping 6th grade math. As a result, she was not as solid as she should have been on some foundational skills. She lacked the automaticity in manipulating things like fractions and negative numbers that comes with real mastery of the concepts AND repetition. She is a top math student (99th percentile SSAT), so it worked out, but I wish the world were such that we could comfortably keep our smart but not math-whiz-smart kids on the regular track without fearing that they are falling behind.

Second DC will not be accelerated. He could probably hack it and be somewhere in the middle, but I think he will benefit more from acquiring a solid foundation and from the confidence that comes with being near the top of the class.

+1000 Former TAG math teacher here who agrees with the above. I also personally know TWO 'unhooked' high school seniors who were accepted to Ivy league schools this year and who did not take Calculus in high school.

Thank you for sharing that. I am of the mind of the PP...build a foundation by moving DC at his own level, which does not have him on track for calculus. I know it's the right thing to do, but have a hard time always feeling like we did the right thing. We don't have Ivies specifically as our goal, but top 20-25 school would be great. He's super smart and hard working, but probably won't have calculus.
So thanks again for the encouraging information!

You're welcome. So many people get hung up on the Calculus question but it is not something that is absolutely necessary for acceptance into an Ivy or a top 25 school. At this point I have or have had multiple students at all of the Ivies and top 25 as well as a host of other schools. IMO a strong foundation now will serve your child better than a weak knowledge of algebra, which is the nexus for all higher level math. Of course, grades matter and one can argue that a weighted GPS for a 100 in AP Calc is better than a 100 in AP Stats or a 100 in AP Pre-Calc but I think that at that point you're arguing hundredths of a point, and most students are not going to swing a 100 in either class anyway. In any event, do what is best for your student now. S/he will always be able to do a summer school class in geometry or pre-calc in high school if AP Calc becomes an imperative. Keep an eye on the horizon for sure but the rest will come! Best wishes!

Just going to say thanks again. After yours, more posts that just make me question what I know is right, surface again. So I will just return to the rational here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is at another middle school but did algebra in 7th grade, which meant skipping 6th grade math. As a result, she was not as solid as she should have been on some foundational skills. She lacked the automaticity in manipulating things like fractions and negative numbers that comes with real mastery of the concepts AND repetition. She is a top math student (99th percentile SSAT), so it worked out, but I wish the world were such that we could comfortably keep our smart but not math-whiz-smart kids on the regular track without fearing that they are falling behind.

Second DC will not be accelerated. He could probably hack it and be somewhere in the middle, but I think he will benefit more from acquiring a solid foundation and from the confidence that comes with being near the top of the class.

+1

[Anonymous]

GDS parent here. First, I agree with you that you should trust your instincts. Second, you should trust the school to place your child in the right level. As others have pointed out, there is plenty of reason for your DC to take time to build a strong foundation. Taking algebra in 8th grade is a track that allows students to take calculus BC in 12th grade. Padding with AP stats (which does not use calculus) in 12th grade as 14:27's DC did may hurt more than help, since GDS offers a host of post-calculus math electives, including calculus-based stats, linear algebra, and multivariate calculus. College math departments are not super excited about students taking post-calculus, unless they are real savants. GDS has a cohort of those, but they are usually the students who took calculus in middle school. For the just smart Ivy bound kids, there are plenty at GDS who don't take calculus because they choose to take more advanced humanities and social science and art classes.