any positive stories about overcoming struggle with Math and/or using Kumon?

[Anonymous]

My soon-to-be 3rd grader doesn't know her math facts well at all. It's a bit shocking. Her school uses Everyday Math. Is part of the problem this curriculum? It seems to jump around a lot, before my DD really learns a particular math fact.

So we signed her up for Kumon, started on June 1st. I'm pleased with it. The drills are exactly what she needs. But she gets all worked up about the math homework, even though she is only doing 1st grade math still. I do see that the daily practice has made her learn but her "I hate math" attitude is tiresome. I praise her for the work she does and praise her for how well she is doing (she gets very few wrong, but it's basic addition, for crying out loud). I hope like crazy that by the end of the summer she gains some confidence and makes it well into 2nd grade material. If not, how will she survive 3rd grade math?

I would find it so encouraging to hear some failure-to-success stories about learning Math. Please share if you have one.

[Anonymous]

My son was a mess with math in third grade, he wasn't using Every Day math but still. We did Kumon over the summer, it helped, in Fourth Grade his school introduced EDM, he struggled, we did Kumon the next summer (it doesn't work for us during the school year) and in Fifth Grade he went from C's to A's. Kumon made a difference, as did his Fifth Grade math teacher. So, there is hope.

I don't understand what you mean by first grade material. Kumon isn't pegged to any grade's math curriculum, it's all about the basics, it's computation. Even if she doesn't get far, keep it up ... it will help!

[Anonymous]

OP here - thanks for sharing your son's story - very encouraging! And good for him (and you) for sticking with it.

To answer your question about what I called first grade material for Math - yes, you're right, Kumon doesn't label the levels according to grade levels. But there are 3 levels of Math (levels 4A, 3A and 2A) that are 1st grade material (addition and subtraction). I read about this here http://www.geocities.com/donaldsauter/kumon.htm#p1

thanks again.

[Anonymous]

We are HUGE fans of Kumon!! My daughter was in Junior Kumon in kindergarten, but we stopped when she started attending private school in 1st grade (couldn't afford both). When we relocated to NoVA, we decided to do public school and Kumon again- the best decision EVER. She re-started Kumon, and was actually at a lower level than when she stopped 3 years before. She has caught up and is now making national honor roll again.
She does struggle sometimes, although I find that, when it seems arduous, doing one less worksheet per night usually keeps it from becoming a chore.
Anyway, my husband and I can't say enough good things about Kumon, we love it!!

[Anonymous]

OP here - thanks for sharing. It feels good to hear another positive story. Well, we're still trudging along, doing Kumon every day. I can clearly see some progress but wish the summer was 8 weeks longer in order to get closer to grade level. We plan to stick with it throughout the school year. Nothing is more important right now.

[Anonymous]

I'm not personally familiar with Kumon, but my now-seventh-grader mastered math facts pretty quickly (after struggling for a long time) using the Flashmaster, which I bought here:

flashmaster.com

My husband, a fourth-grade teacher, ordered a half-dozen of them for his classroom after seeing how well it worked with my son. The kids perceive it as a Nintendo of sorts, seeking to beat certain "levels" to get to the next one.

It is a tad pricey but well worth it in my opinion.

We bought ours years ago, and it broke after about 14-15 months. We contacted the guy who makes/sells them (see website), and he sent us a new one without questions. None of the ones my husband bought several years ago have broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for sharing your son's story - very encouraging! And good for him (and you) for sticking with it.

To answer your question about what I called first grade material for Math - yes, you're right, Kumon doesn't label the levels according to grade levels. But there are 3 levels of Math (levels 4A, 3A and 2A) that are 1st grade material (addition and subtraction). I read about this here http://www.geocities.com/donaldsauter/kumon.htm#p1

thanks again.

OP, I just looked at that very interesting link you posted.

I don't have any personal experience with Kumon. I do know a lot about elementary math instruction. What I read in that assessment of the Kumon program would concern me, as being an approach that might not be that great for some types of students. I would certainly take the comments to heart, and would check and see if the drill is truly useful for developing long-term mastery of basic facts. "Number sense" is something that is really important, and there' shouldn't be a need for hours and hours and hours of repetitive drill.

Kumon's method of teaching arithmetic might be called "brute force". Kumon insistently avoids, or is unaware of, what we now call "number sense" - a solid grasp of how numbers are laid out and how they behave. For example, Kumon never addresses the fundamental separation of numbers into evens and odds.

A Kumon student "gets" 8+6=14 by virtue of doing it dozens or hundreds of times. There's no other way of looking at it besides an elemental fact. A student is never told, and there are no exercises that burn in, "an even plus an even gives an even". In this example, a student armed with that basic understanding might see 8+6 as the next even number beyond 6+6, which he knows like the back of his hand, or simply as an even number "not too far up" in the teens.

There's never a suggestion of breaking a harder problem into quick and simple steps. Again, a Kumon student learns 7+5 by brute force. A lightning quick series of mental steps, such as breaking the 5 into two chunks, one of which gets you to 10 and the other to the final answer, is completely stonewalled by Kumon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for sharing your son's story - very encouraging! And good for him (and you) for sticking with it.

To answer your question about what I called first grade material for Math - yes, you're right, Kumon doesn't label the levels according to grade levels. But there are 3 levels of Math (levels 4A, 3A and 2A) that are 1st grade material (addition and subtraction). I read about this here http://www.geocities.com/donaldsauter/kumon.htm#p1

thanks again.

OP, I just looked at that very interesting link you posted.

I don't have any personal experience with Kumon. I do know a lot about elementary math instruction. What I read in that assessment of the Kumon program would concern me, as being an approach that might not be that great for some types of students. I would certainly take the comments to heart, and would check and see if the drill is truly useful for developing long-term mastery of basic facts. "Number sense" is something that is really important, and there' shouldn't be a need for hours and hours and hours of repetitive drill.

Kumon's method of teaching arithmetic might be called "brute force". Kumon insistently avoids, or is unaware of, what we now call "number sense" - a solid grasp of how numbers are laid out and how they behave. For example, Kumon never addresses the fundamental separation of numbers into evens and odds.

A Kumon student "gets" 8+6=14 by virtue of doing it dozens or hundreds of times. There's no other way of looking at it besides an elemental fact. A student is never told, and there are no exercises that burn in, "an even plus an even gives an even". In this example, a student armed with that basic understanding might see 8+6 as the next even number beyond 6+6, which he knows like the back of his hand, or simply as an even number "not too far up" in the teens.

There's never a suggestion of breaking a harder problem into quick and simple steps. Again, a Kumon student learns 7+5 by brute force. A lightning quick series of mental steps, such as breaking the 5 into two chunks, one of which gets you to 10 and the other to the final answer, is completely stonewalled by Kumon.

OP here - it's interesting that you posted this quote because this is right where my daughter is at. I have explained to her how to break one number down into 2 managable numbers. For ex, for 7 + 5, change it to 5 +5 + 2. (I'm spending more time with her practicing counting by 5s and 2s so she will be better at this). No one at Kumon has criticized anything and she's making progress, so I'm still pleased with it.

[Anonymous]

Well, it sounds like YOU are teaching her what she needs to learn, in that case! (Not KUMON) So good for you!

[Anonymous]

also, OP -- you r idea of breaking a larger number into a 5 and some extras is spot on.

You can use a 10-frame to make this idea more visual -- here is a fun website where you can have your daughter play some games to practice this concept if you wish:

http://illuminations.nctm.org/activitydetail.aspx?id=75

[Anonymous]

My kids hated Kumon as well after 6 months. A friend of my husband's recommended www.tenmarks.com over the summer. It's online, so we don't have to drive the kids around, and they're much happier with it. TenMarks was only open for a few hundred people over the summer, but i believe they're open for everyone now.

[Anonymous]

I read about this device on a homeschooling board (I'm not a homeschooler myself) and we bought one for my sons, who love it. It has helped them to nail down math facts, without involving us (the nagging parents) and without boring drills.

flashmaster.com

Our first one broke after the first year and they replaced it, no questions asked.

My husband is a fourth-grade teacher and uses these in his classroom as well.

[Anonymous]

Concerning the statement below about long term memory and math. The drills are EXACTLY what remains in long term memory. Not the overall concepts learned at such young ages. See: "Why Minimal Guidance During Instruction Does Not Work" By Pal Kirschner, John Sweller, Richard Clark. Long analytical read but has LOADS of information. It explains why all of the Everyday math students need Kumon to fix whats messed up.
"
I don't have any personal experience with Kumon. I do know a lot about elementary math instruction. What I read in that assessment of the Kumon program would concern me, as being an approach that might not be that great for some types of students. I would certainly take the comments to heart, and would check and see if the drill is truly useful for developing long-term mastery of basic facts. "Number sense" is something that is really important, and there' shouldn't be a need for hours and hours and hours of repetitive drill.



Kumon's method of teaching arithmetic might be called "brute force". Kumon insistently avoids, or is unaware of, what we now call "number sense" - a solid grasp of how numbers are laid out and how they behave. For example, Kumon never addresses the fundamental separation of numbers into evens and odds.

A Kumon student "gets" 8+6=14 by virtue of doing it dozens or hundreds of times. There's no other way of looking at it besides an elemental fact. A student is never told, and there are no exercises that burn in, "an even plus an even gives an even". In this example, a student armed with that basic understanding might see 8+6 as the next even number beyond 6+6, which he knows like the back of his hand, or simply as an even number "not too far up" in the teens.

There's never a suggestion of breaking a harder problem into quick and simple steps. Again, a Kumon student learns 7+5 by brute force. A lightning quick series of mental steps, such as breaking the 5 into two chunks, one of which gets you to 10 and the other to the final answer, is completely stonewalled by Kumon.

Again, drills are what young children need to retain the knowledge once and for all.

[Anonymous]

OP here - thought some of you would be interested to know that my DD has had great success with Kumon. It's been 8 months so far. The daily practice, and slow and steady progress, are exactly what she needs. It has been worth every penny, and the time and energy.

[Anonymous]

My DD is in 2nd grade. I bought 2 Kumon workbooks in a bookstore 2 weeks ago. She does 4 pages every night. This has been helping her, I can already see a difference. I didn't sign her up for the extra classes at the Kumon center, b/c she would probably start hating math and she is not behind, but just needs a little extra practice with math at home (I think). The Kumon workbooks are very specific, dealign with one topic at a time and helps a kid master that one topic. It does seem to be helping boost her confidence.