Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I get it. I definitely see this behavior in my town - there are all sorts of mom groups around me - the tennis moms, the moms of the little league boys, the SAHM that I see drinking at the pool when I pick my kid up from swim team. On my best days, I just walk over, say hi, and order a drink if I'm able. On my worst, I try to avoid them completely so they don't see me!

Honestly, I find most of this to be a reflection of how little I put myself out there. I don't play tennis, I work full-time, I am not one of those LL moms for sure.

It can still hurt sometimes, and feel embarrassing. But not enough to motivate me to change too much...yet (but I'm sure I will some day - hope they still let me in the clique).

I hope you can see from your high horse how judgmental and rude you are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

+1

OP posted a snarky update (kind of like her text I imagine) and someone called her a peach. Oh ouch. Meanwhile, SAHMs are alcoholics, people who day drink are losers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

OP here--I assure you this "You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?” didn't happen....just lots of uncomfortable looks given to me.

To the other posters, I have friends from different walks of life and most of them are not from my kids' elementary school. There are a quite few moms from the school I am friendly with...and ,yes, they show up for the events I am hosting if invited and available. I also invite all of the children from my kids' classes to their Birthday parties through the school and parent contact list, but I am not upset if some of them don't show up. People have plans, so totally ok. Some parents do not, they really like to control the narrative and some kids are always excluded (one special needs boy in particular), which is sad.

As far as for the Monday bus stop interactions (per everyone request), one kid stopped riding the bus this week (his mom drives him to school every day)...which is unusual. I have not seen the other mom, as we have two stops in our neighborhood. Might see her this week, if bus is running late and I need to get my kids earlier to get them somewhere.

I was just really surprised by bashing instead of sharing stories. I did enjoy reading stories shared by other moms.

So was this the kid of the mom you sent the text to?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.

Actually, if you had been paying attention, most of the people were responding aggressively to other posters. OP has only posted a few times on here.

It is delusional to expect to be invited to an event where you know maybe 1/3 of the people. It's also a sign of being self-absorbed or self-obsessed that you would think you deserve an invitation to all events involving people you know.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The mean girl pta vibe is heavy handed here. The defensive posture in favor of this group and antagonistic approach to op is wild.

+1, we actually don't get much info from OP here, certainly not enough to draw conclusions. The people who are assuming good intent by this group and hurling insults at OP are simply showing themselves up.

Seems the opposite to me. All we know is 15 women got together for lunch. Nothing nefarious about that. Why are they suddenly a “mean girl” mom clique? Literally nothing sail alludes to this- OP is just peeved she wasn’t invited. Which in itself isn’t mean spirited

It's typical DCUM. People loooove to dog-pile on the OP and project their own issues. The first couple pages are all mean moms telling OP it's her fault and she made it awkward based on very little info. Says tons about them.

+10000

It’s because Op came out swinging against a group of women who dared to go anywhere without her. She’s not going to get the sisterhood rallying around her when she comes out like that.

Swinging seems intense. She wrote a potentially snarky text to a friend. It may have been reactive but not completely deranged like so many are implying. Honestly does no one have compassion or genuine friendships around here?

If a friend sent me a snarky text because I happened to have social plans that didn’t include her, I would not be clamoring to get together with her anytime soon. Who the heck wants to be guilted for having a social life that doesn’t revolve entirely around inviting that one person along to everything.

If I ran into a couple friends out in a big group I didn’t know I would smile and wave. If I happened to be in close proximity I may make pleasantries and ask how the wine is and if there’s anything they’d recommend ordering for my event. If OP had been friendly maybe she would have been introduced to the group and invited next time. She’ll never be invited now after her little tantrum. And would she really even want an invite given out of some sort of guilt trip?

If OP was my friend, I would have waved her over and asked if she had time to join us for a glass of wine.

That is good manners. Many on this board seemingly have none.

If Queen Bee gets mad and casts me out of the inner circle, then so be it. The rest of the wine mom minions can decide to hang out with and be ruled by a 15-year-old mean girl, in a grown adult's body.

Exactly. Even if it was not school related. That’s my friend. Hey, babe! So cool to see you. Come over?

The last three times I got together with a group of other women were for (1) a book club, (2) to plan a memorial for a child who had died, and (3) working on an upcoming event for a non-profit. If my best friend, who is not in my book club and therefore may not have read the book we were discussing, doesn't know the child who died, and has nothing to do with the non-profit or the event, had walked by me while I was with any of those groups, I absolutely would not have invited her to come join us because it would not be appropriate. It is flabbergasting to me that you people would actually use the words you suggested above. I clearly don't know anyone like you because I don't know anyone who would do that, and if I did, I'm quite certain everyone else in the group would think it was really odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP was sharing her experience and how it made her feel. She wasn’t asking for your analysis of the situation but looking to see if others have had similar experiences. Some of you are so self absorbed and didn’t even read, understand, or care to, what the poster was looking to discuss. So why engage? To show anonymously your viscous selves and then smile to women you don’t like tomorrow at school pick up?

OP was asking for nasty, judgmental stories about women that people barely know so she could laugh at them and call them names. So sorry most people didn't comply.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

+1, and I think that's one reason this conversation devolved so quickly, because some of the behaviors that can turn a normal friend gathering into a clique are hard to describe. Like OP said the women looked "uber awkward." I think a lot of people just wrote this off as something OP imagined, and that is possible. But I can also think of situations I've been in where no one *said* anything clique-y or exclusionary, but you could tell from the looks people gave each other or the way they stopped conversation when someone walked up that they were excluding.

If you've ever read about relational aggression in kids, you'll get this. It's not overt bullying or teasing, and no one is going to say "you can't come play with us." It's subtle and often takes the form of passive aggression or seemingly innocent behavior with a bite. There are definitely adults who engage in it too. But the whole point of this behavior is that it offers plausible deniability. People who do this stuff arrange it so they can always say "what? I was perfectly nice to Larla when we saw her at the winery. I think she imagined these 'looks' she think she saw."

Not saying that's what happened (I have no idea) but that's why relational aggression is so frustrating -- you know you are being treated poorly but can't really explain why without looking over-sensitive or delusional, because the poor treatment is designed to give the other person an easy out.

+2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

If I were the OP, I'd give you nothing. The PPs on here will twist anything she says to make the situation her fault and tell her how she deserves to be left out of every activity ever. It's absolutely bananas on this thread.

+100

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Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild! Did OP ever explain if she was friends with several of these women or not???

OP Here—Yes. Two of the moms that live in my subdivision are always invited to all of the events I host and I have been invited to their events as well. They live in my subdivision. There were three other moms that I am always friendly with, no issues.

So...you knew 1/3 of the people at the event...got it.

Some of you have poor reading comprehension skills.

She knows all the women at the event -- they are all women whose kids go to the same elementary school, and all but one of the women have kids in the same grades as her kids.

She also knows two of the women well and considers them friends (or did) -- they live in the same subdivision and are the only women in that subdivision with elementary age kids (thus the only ones at the bus stop).

Additionally, she is on more friendly terms (not as close but clearly OP considers them friends) with three more women in the group, but she doesn't know/see them as much as the other two because they are not neighbors.

So OP knows all the women, knows 2 very well, another 5 fairly well, and interacts with almost all the others regularly due to having kids in the same classes.

I still think OP overreacted to seeing these women all together without her, BUT I think when you understand her relationship to these women, it becomes more obvious as to why she felt excluded. It was not some random group of 15 women. It was a group of women she knew, some fairly well, and all from a community she is also a part of. It's understandable that discovering they were hanging out in this way but no including her would feel weird to her.

It would be like walking into a trivia night on a Tuesday and discovering that 10-15 of your coworkers, including 5 who you considered yourself to be friends with, are there together on the same team. It's not that they are required to include you, but it's going to feel weird that they've never even mentioned it, especially the ones you are closer to.

I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this to people. It just seems self-evident to me.

Ha, you're the one who can't read. This isn't right at all. And also, I'm the PP to whom you are responding, and at the time of my post, OP had not stated that she knew all of the moms, only that she was friends with two and knew three others. So maybe settle down a little bit.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

If I were the OP, I'd give you nothing. The PPs on here will twist anything she says to make the situation her fault and tell her how she deserves to be left out of every activity ever. It's absolutely bananas on this thread.

+100

OPs cheerleaders aren't even reading the thread. OP already came back with her update. Her nasty text seems to have backfired on her as one mom might be avoiding her now, but could be coincidence.

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Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild! Did OP ever explain if she was friends with several of these women or not???

OP Here—Yes. Two of the moms that live in my subdivision are always invited to all of the events I host and I have been invited to their events as well. They live in my subdivision. There were three other moms that I am always friendly with, no issues.

So...you knew 1/3 of the people at the event...got it.

Some of you have poor reading comprehension skills.

She knows all the women at the event -- they are all women whose kids go to the same elementary school, and all but one of the women have kids in the same grades as her kids.

She also knows two of the women well and considers them friends (or did) -- they live in the same subdivision and are the only women in that subdivision with elementary age kids (thus the only ones at the bus stop).

Additionally, she is on more friendly terms (not as close but clearly OP considers them friends) with three more women in the group, but she doesn't know/see them as much as the other two because they are not neighbors.

So OP knows all the women, knows 2 very well, another 5 fairly well, and interacts with almost all the others regularly due to having kids in the same classes.

I still think OP overreacted to seeing these women all together without her, BUT I think when you understand her relationship to these women, it becomes more obvious as to why she felt excluded. It was not some random group of 15 women. It was a group of women she knew, some fairly well, and all from a community she is also a part of. It's understandable that discovering they were hanging out in this way but no including her would feel weird to her.

It would be like walking into a trivia night on a Tuesday and discovering that 10-15 of your coworkers, including 5 who you considered yourself to be friends with, are there together on the same team. It's not that they are required to include you, but it's going to feel weird that they've never even mentioned it, especially the ones you are closer to.

I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this to people. It just seems self-evident to me.

Ha, you're the one who can't read. This isn't right at all. And also, I'm the PP to whom you are responding, and at the time of my post, OP had not stated that she knew all of the moms, only that she was friends with two and knew three others. So maybe settle down a little bit.

She said in the OP itself that they were all women from her kids' school, so from the start it was clear these were people she knew on some level. She only clarified the level of friendship of various people because people jumped all over her and accused her of thinking she should be invited to every random gathering of women even if she didn't know them at all.

People keep saying "so any group of women is a clique!?" even though OP has always said that these were women she knew (obviously... how would she even have recognized the group if she didn't know them? obviously she knows them).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

NP. Why are you trying to hard to get your feelings hurt? That PP never said that it was NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out of excluded, you did. MOST OF THE TIME you shouldn't have hurt feelings because people you know however tangentially are doing something that doesn't include you. Of course it's ok to be hurt if your best friend planned a trip for her 50th birthday with 10 other women and didn't invite you. But OP's situation? Where she knew a small amount of the people at the event and then decided to send a snarky text acting like it was an every Friday kind of invite-only activity from which she had been purposefully excluded? That's ridiculous.

It's never useful to tell someone they "shouldn't" feel some way. You can tell OP that those women almost certainly didn't exclude her intentionally, and tell her the expectation of inclusion isn't really reasonable since of course not everyone can be invited to everything. And I'd agree.

But if OP feels left out, that's just how she feels. It doesn't matter if you think it's ridiculous or not. If that's how she feels, it likely reflects the broader context of how she fits into this school community and her neighborhood, and as others have noted, might be a result of her not having many friends. She also just might kind of long for a group of women to go out with in that way, and be sad to learn that some of her friends have a group like that... but she's not part of it.

I think it's strange how many posters (or a few posters, posting repeatedly) felt like OP had done something wrong by just feeling awkward or sad about this situation. She shouldn't have sent the bitter text message, but there's nothing wrong with just feeling hurt. It is what it is. Maybe it's a wake up call to OP to put herself out their more or cultivate her friendships more, so that seeing other women having fun together doesn't trigger her in this way.

I don't understand why you can't understand this. IT IS OK FOR PEOPLE TO INTENTIONALLY EXCLUDE PEOPLE. I intentionally do not invite my neighbor and good friend when a group of us go for a run because she hates running and has a bad knee. I am consciously making the decision NOT to invite Jill on the run. And that is completely ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

NP. Why are you trying to hard to get your feelings hurt? That PP never said that it was NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out of excluded, you did. MOST OF THE TIME you shouldn't have hurt feelings because people you know however tangentially are doing something that doesn't include you. Of course it's ok to be hurt if your best friend planned a trip for her 50th birthday with 10 other women and didn't invite you. But OP's situation? Where she knew a small amount of the people at the event and then decided to send a snarky text acting like it was an every Friday kind of invite-only activity from which she had been purposefully excluded? That's ridiculous.

It's never useful to tell someone they "shouldn't" feel some way. You can tell OP that those women almost certainly didn't exclude her intentionally, and tell her the expectation of inclusion isn't really reasonable since of course not everyone can be invited to everything. And I'd agree.

But if OP feels left out, that's just how she feels. It doesn't matter if you think it's ridiculous or not. If that's how she feels, it likely reflects the broader context of how she fits into this school community and her neighborhood, and as others have noted, might be a result of her not having many friends. She also just might kind of long for a group of women to go out with in that way, and be sad to learn that some of her friends have a group like that... but she's not part of it.

I think it's strange how many posters (or a few posters, posting repeatedly) felt like OP had done something wrong by just feeling awkward or sad about this situation. She shouldn't have sent the bitter text message, but there's nothing wrong with just feeling hurt. It is what it is. Maybe it's a wake up call to OP to put herself out their more or cultivate her friendships more, so that seeing other women having fun together doesn't trigger her in this way.

Sigh. OP's response to this perceived "mean girl" behavior was to attribute the word "clique" (which, if you didn't know, has a negative connotation) to this group of women. Then she requested (actually demanded) that other posters tell stories of other "cliques" describing how awful women are.

I don't even care about the text message, although I do think it was not a great thing to try to make that purported friend feel guilty for not doing anything wrong.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild! Did OP ever explain if she was friends with several of these women or not???

OP Here—Yes. Two of the moms that live in my subdivision are always invited to all of the events I host and I have been invited to their events as well. They live in my subdivision. There were three other moms that I am always friendly with, no issues.

So...you knew 1/3 of the people at the event...got it.

Some of you have poor reading comprehension skills.

She knows all the women at the event -- they are all women whose kids go to the same elementary school, and all but one of the women have kids in the same grades as her kids.

She also knows two of the women well and considers them friends (or did) -- they live in the same subdivision and are the only women in that subdivision with elementary age kids (thus the only ones at the bus stop).

Additionally, she is on more friendly terms (not as close but clearly OP considers them friends) with three more women in the group, but she doesn't know/see them as much as the other two because they are not neighbors.

So OP knows all the women, knows 2 very well, another 5 fairly well, and interacts with almost all the others regularly due to having kids in the same classes.

I still think OP overreacted to seeing these women all together without her, BUT I think when you understand her relationship to these women, it becomes more obvious as to why she felt excluded. It was not some random group of 15 women. It was a group of women she knew, some fairly well, and all from a community she is also a part of. It's understandable that discovering they were hanging out in this way but no including her would feel weird to her.

It would be like walking into a trivia night on a Tuesday and discovering that 10-15 of your coworkers, including 5 who you considered yourself to be friends with, are there together on the same team. It's not that they are required to include you, but it's going to feel weird that they've never even mentioned it, especially the ones you are closer to.

I can't believe I'm still trying to explain this to people. It just seems self-evident to me.

Ha, you're the one who can't read. This isn't right at all. And also, I'm the PP to whom you are responding, and at the time of my post, OP had not stated that she knew all of the moms, only that she was friends with two and knew three others. So maybe settle down a little bit.

She said in the OP itself that they were all women from her kids' school, so from the start it was clear these were people she knew on some level. She only clarified the level of friendship of various people because people jumped all over her and accused her of thinking she should be invited to every random gathering of women even if she didn't know them at all.

People keep saying "so any group of women is a clique!?" even though OP has always said that these were women she knew (obviously... how would she even have recognized the group if she didn't know them? obviously she knows them).

She's the one who emphasized the relationship: 2 are neighbors, 3 she's friendly with. The rest are just faces she recognizes from her kid's classes. That's it. She's not tight with this group and I guess it sucks for her she just realized that. Maybe she should make more effort instead of pouting and sending alienating texts to the few she was friends with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

Not any of the PPs to which you are replying, but it's funny to me that you don't see that you're the one tying yourself into knots. No one is defending mom cliques. People are saying that it's ok for a group of people to get together once without inviting every single person they've ever met. This is not a group of 15 that are in OP's circle that she is being excluded from. She doesn't even know most of the people who were there. Who in their right mind would be upset about not being invited to something like that?

Nope. No knots. There are some reasonable posts on here but even Jeff noted how people attacked the OP, esp. early on in the thread. I'm not arguing about OP's specific situation but rather the reactions to her post. Just fascinated in a sad way at how DCUM posters always always assume the worst about the OP and just make stuff up to justify tearing an OP down. It happens all the time on here. This thread was no different. Stop pretending it isn't.

You do realize that the majority of the posts on here are in response to things other posters have said, right? You do understand how a forum like this works?