AOPS - why didn't it work for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like there's a AOPS staff person who writes (and plugs) on this forum a lot. That's fine, it's an open forum. But the classes are expensive and I know some people have dropped it because it hasn't worked for their child. I guess that's the group I'd like to hear from. Why didn't it work for your child? Better to know ahead of time, before plunking down a large sum and find out it didn't work for one reason or another. Thanks for your input.

It's expensive. And by the time I was aware it existed, it would have required a testing in to determine levels. And, frankly, it appears that it requires a more complex understanding of math than is taught in school. We opted to buy a textbook to use last year for Honors Algebra 1 and didn't use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent here who had her high school sophomore son take the online algebra 3 class this summer. He’s getting jumped to advanced precalc next year so I wanted him in very solid shape for an advanced class. Besides, it’s been a dull Covid summer.

AOPS was new to us and a very nice complement to his school year Algebra 2 class that was more rote problem sets. He likes the online class work with immediate feedback. The class also teaches him to reach out to chat, textbook, even YouTube to answer questions. My one problem that he thinks he needs to make an 90% on AOPS problem sets but it’s really too hard. He got upset until I reminded him that for improving precalc algebra skills, the AOPS has been exactly what we wanted.

With school starting I’m sure we’ll get even less done on AOPS. But the class has served its purpose of increased skill at theoretical math without burnout.

Just a little more detail, my son really likes math and enjoys solving problems. He’s testing very high at school. The big AOPS adjustment was to accept they he might not get every problem correct, like he does in HS. Long term I think this a good attitude towards math. But AOPS is not a remedial or even average level class, it’s for kids with a strong interest in math.

[Anonymous]

A bit of an offshoot, but my DD who is in FCPS AAP program but more for her verbal skills than math does just okay in school math in her AAP program but really loved Beast Academy/AOPS. So I don't know if it's just for "mathematical geniuses" She does have strong spatial skills and I think the more spatial orientation of Beast Academy "worked" for her (but I could see that being the very reason why it doesn't work for someone else). I think she loved too the idea that there were problems you were expected to try but not get rather than the idea that every problem you didn't get was "one off" the desired score like it is in school.

[Anonymous]

My son liked it, but we lived in Alexandria, and there was no nearby location. Doing the long drive on a weekend and then killing time while he was in the class was just too much for us.

[Anonymous]

I have a doctorate in hard math. Yes, I have seen AOPS. Not impressed. It is all quick tricks with no depth. If you're impressed then I am sure that is saying something. I don't know what, but it is saying something. Glad your kids are enjoying the experience.

I have a masters in electric engineering, and my husband has a PhD in physics. We were favorably impressed with the courses. I don't know what you are expecting from a math course for children (albeit very bright ones, for the most part), but I think you are being unrealistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a doctorate in hard math. Yes, I have seen AOPS. Not impressed. It is all quick tricks with no depth. If you're impressed then I am sure that is saying something. I don't know what, but it is saying something. Glad your kids are enjoying the experience.

Yeah, this is all quick tricks and looks nothing at all like regular math.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/aops-cdn.artofproblemsolving.com/products/intro-geometry/exc1.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/aops-cdn.artofproblemsolving.com/products/intro-algebra/exc2.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/aops-cdn.artofproblemsolving.com/products/precalculus/exc1.pdf

Interesting. I don't have a PhD in math, but my colleagues who do have recommended it to me as the strongest program for depth of mathematical thinking for kids and I tend to agree. My kids didn't go through the math competition classes which I think do include some tricks, but rather did Beast Academy on-line and then AoPS in-person (and then virtually). I took reasonably challenging math courses in college (e.g., linear algebra, differential equations, topology)--granted awhile back-- and some of the elementary level geometry problems in the Beast Academy made me think a bit when my kids asked me about them. I'm curious what part of AoPS did you (PhD PP) see?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AOPS isn't for most kids. They spend 75% of their time focusing on esoteric contest math tricks while skipping over basic skills.

This.
Don’t expect your kids to learn any algebra if they’ve never had it before. They do not spend much time teaching it. Instead does math tricks. It might be okay for those that already had it. Some parents don’t check and assume that it is doing good. But it’s a waste of money. You’ll get more from Khan. And it’s free.

[Anonymous]

It was too hard for my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A bit of an offshoot, but my DD who is in FCPS AAP program but more for her verbal skills than math does just okay in school math in her AAP program but really loved Beast Academy/AOPS. So I don't know if it's just for "mathematical geniuses" She does have strong spatial skills and I think the more spatial orientation of Beast Academy "worked" for her (but I could see that being the very reason why it doesn't work for someone else). I think she loved too the idea that there were problems you were expected to try but not get rather than the idea that every problem you didn't get was "one off" the desired score like it is in school.

I could have written this as well. I have two kids in FCPS AAP/advanced math who do well but are by no means math geniuses. We switched them from Mathnasium to AoPS. FYI-even with solid grades in advanced math, they tested a grade below in AoPS. They actually enjoy class vs. Mathnasium. The teacher goes over the material vs. just completing worksheets. And they actually have to think/problem solve their way through homework. I don't care if they end up in STEM (one probably def won't, that's not her thing), but I like that it teaches them to work things through. Not sure if we will continue through MS/HS. But for right now, I feel like they need more in depth math that AAP provides. I feel like AAP is about teaching a grade ahead but there is not much depth to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AOPS isn't for most kids. They spend 75% of their time focusing on esoteric contest math tricks while skipping over basic skills.

This.
Don’t expect your kids to learn any algebra if they’ve never had it before. They do not spend much time teaching it. Instead does math tricks. It might be okay for those that already had it. Some parents don’t check and assume that it is doing good. But it’s a waste of money. You’ll get more from Khan. And it’s free.

What do you mean teaching tricks? Last year, my kids were virtual and I didn't really see this during class. Can you give examples? The teacher would usually go over material, ask questions/encourage participation. I know they have math competitions, maybe in those classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AOPS isn't for most kids. They spend 75% of their time focusing on esoteric contest math tricks while skipping over basic skills.

This.
Don’t expect your kids to learn any algebra if they’ve never had it before. They do not spend much time teaching it. Instead does math tricks. It might be okay for those that already had it. Some parents don’t check and assume that it is doing good. But it’s a waste of money. You’ll get more from Khan. And it’s free.

What do you mean teaching tricks? Last year, my kids were virtual and I didn't really see this during class. Can you give examples? The teacher would usually go over material, ask questions/encourage participation. I know they have math competitions, maybe in those classes?

I think there's one PP who saw only the competition classes or has some axe to grind against AoPS. My DD is good at math but not in any way a math genius. She took BA 4, BA5, and pre-Algebra through AoPS. Those helped her easily qualify for 7th grade Algebra in FCPS and gave her the foundation such that school Algebra and Geometry have been very easy for her. She has no interest in contest math and hasn't competed in anything.

[Anonymous]

AoPS is not for everyone. I would hazard a guess that it is not suitable for 95% of the kids. It is really for kids who love math. It is not a good way to just "strengthen math". Other programs might be better suited for that purpose.

It is definitely not "Instead does math tricks." This statement by someone who does not have the right idea of how math is taught and learned at AoPS.

- A parent of a kid who loves math and who did many AoPS books at home.

[Anonymous]

Parent of kids who did Beast Academy, AOPS, and are currently in Russian Math. AOPS was started by a Princetonian who is a math geek. It does do a good job of teaching math, but tends to go off on more theoretical and abstract conceptual math that is not useful for 99% of students. The tangents require time to absorb — which is fine if you have the time.

My kids are in pressure cooker schools with hours of homework each night. They did not appreciate the tangential excursions.

I’m decent at math. Two Ivy degrees under my belt. Math 780 GRE/790 SAT. I was occasionally stumped by Beast Math (for 3rd, 4th, and 5th graders), taking hours to solve a particular puzzle or problem.

My eldest got very frustrated with AOPS but stuck with it. My younger two made it through 5th grade Beast Math with a lot of help from me and their dad. They refused to touch AOPS. By then older brother had switched to RSM. RsM is conceptual, but keeps the math practical and useful.

[Anonymous]

DS enjoyed his 3rd grade AoPS class. He didn't seem to struggle with anything as it was presented and did well on the quarterly assessments. He enjoyed the homework assignments and the games that they had on the site. He enjoys math and does well in math class at school, although he finds it boring.

I have no idea if he is gifted in math or not. I do know that he like AoPS and never seemed lost with the material. He had classmates who the Teacher asked to stay online when the rest of the class logged off because the child said they were still confused. They covered topics that were not covered in his class at school.

We are moving to Russia School of Math this year because it is closer to our house by a lot. The RSM assessment seemed to be pretty similar to the AoPS assessment except that RSM has three different levels to place kids into based on its assessment. The Teacher handling the assessment said most kids are placed in one of the first two levels when they are starting out because the assessment shows that the kids need to firm up some foundational skills. The Teacher displayed problems, DS answered them and explained his solution to the Teacher. At the end of the assessment the Teacher presented a few new concepts to DS. The Teacher explained the solution and then DS answered a bunch of questions based on what the Teacher had just taught. I like the idea that there are different levels because that means that if DS gets to a point where he is struggling with some concepts, there is a place for him to move that will help him build those skills. Mainly we like that we will have a much shorter commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand that Russian School of Mathmatics has different levels for each grade, AoPS does not have anything like that. They do conduct an evaluation for kids new to the program to make sure that they are placed in the proper level. I have seen kids asked to stay after the class ended to review concepts.

I get the feeling that AoPS is best for kids who are ahead in math and can grasp concepts quickly.

Any further comparisons to RSM? We live too far for AOPS and DC does not want to do online. RSM is also for advanced students from what I can tell. Not catch up.