CPS Investigation

[Anonymous]

And this whole thread is why, as a social worker, I've stayed far far away from the child welfare field. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Lots of people have had this... Its stressful but ultimately necessary to have such a system

No, it is not necessary to have a system with a hair-trigger for removing kids from the home.

In answer to your question OP - I knew someone who had a false Shaken Baby accusation made against them. Preemie twins, one had a brain bleed at home that is common in prematurity. The ER doctor saw this as a per se sign of child abuse and referred to CPS. This was a wealthy, professional family. Thankfully they had the resources to fight this, and the babies were never removed from the home to fostercare. I think the babies went to the grandparents, and one parent (the one who was not home at the time of the brain bleed) was allowed visitation. Once it was sorted out, the family literally left the US to never return because it was so scarring.

I knew a family who, when putting the baby to bed one night, found a bump on the back of his head. Took the child to the ER and the doctor called CPS immediately. They took the child into protective custody for two weeks. They were all interviewed and it turned out the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. That family, especially the mother, was traumatized. She quit her job to be a SAHM and they never had another kid. It's awful

I don’t understand. How is CPS in the wrong in any way here? Their investigation turned up that the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. If not for CPS and the doctor who called the baby could have suffered from more neglect from that caregiver. I’m sure it was traumatizing but this story illustrates why we need CPS and why we have mandatory reporters.

Because there need to be more signs of neglect/abuse before you take a child away from its parents -- it's fundamental due process. Taking an infant away from its parents is about as extreme a deprivation of a fundamental right as one can imagine. It cannot be done on textbook definitions of "see this clinical finding, call CPS."

Just to give you a contrast about how good medical professionals handle this stuff:

My child (8) has bruises all over his legs because during DL he runs all over the house and bangs into stuff because he's antsy, and because he knocks his shins against his bike when he carries it up the stairs. I didn't really think much of it. When he went in for his well visit, his pediatrician said "Oh, I see all those bruises ... that's because you are a growing boy and running around!" I immediately told her yes, about the banging into furniture and the bike. She is very reasonable and observant, and she knows that parents don't bring in an abused child for their flu shot and well visit in the middle of a pandemic with zero concern for the doctor seeing the bruises.

I have a friend who is a doctor and she mentioned bruises on the arms and legs doesn’t raise alarm bells in an overall healthy kid without any other factors to suspect abuse. Bruising on their trunk or head, or apparently certain patterns of bruising are what they look for.

Right - and I'm so thankful my doctor is wise enough to know that there were no other concerns for abuse, instead of just a rote interpretation that multiple bruises = CPS.

Yes, but in the scenario you are initially referencing there absolutely were indicators of abuse that warrant a CPS call. It's not the medical provider's job to determine if the parents did it, just that abuse likely occurred.

No, there should not be any set of injuries or clinical findings that warrant a rote referral to CPS. That is how the whole Shaken Baby debacle happened. Doctors and teachers need to be trained (and sensible enough) to be able to have the discretion.

https://www.law.uh.edu/hjhlp/volumes/Vol_12_2/Findley.pdf

Are you being purposefully obtuse?? A skull fracture on a baby (likely the injury in the scenario in question) is not a "rote referral" situation. Just stop.

Medical providers DO use discretion. We have dozens of questionable situations a week that we don't call on because we use our training and discretion.

[Anonymous]

It’s crazy that people are harassed for months or years by CPS for freak accidents, but then you have horrible cases of neglect and abuse where the kid isn’t seen for a long period of time and eventually turns up dead, and then CPS is “so busy, so overtaxed, can’t investigate all claims, too understaffed, blah blah blah.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a CPS investigator.

We got a lot of reports that were neighbors calling on neighbors for revenge or families reporting other family members as a way of causing drama. If the allegations were not totally batsh*t and there wasn’t obvious history, we had to investigate. It was not difficult to tell what was going on most of the time. I always tried to conduct my investigations as respectfully as I’d hope to be treated. Not all of my colleagues were that way, unfortunately.

My personal opinion about removal is that it should really be a last resort and a true safety issue. The only times I’ve removed children from their parent was when it was truly dangerous for them to stay there, due to extreme abuse and/or neglect. If there was a way to keep kids with parents who were trying but needed support in some area, my preference was to provide the resource. We gave away a lot of grocery store gift cards, especially at this time of year. Collected a lot of coats. The need is a lot bigger than many people on these boards realize.

My former colleagues tell me that the decrease in referrals is ominous to them. Everyone fees confident that it’s not a reduction in abuse and neglect but those things not being seen by a teacher because school is closed. I would say that the majority of my investigations (hundreds) were from teachers reporting abuse and neglect.

You are what every CPS WORKER should be but isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people have had this... Its stressful but ultimately necessary to have such a system

No, it is not necessary to have a system with a hair-trigger for removing kids from the home.

In answer to your question OP - I knew someone who had a false Shaken Baby accusation made against them. Preemie twins, one had a brain bleed at home that is common in prematurity. The ER doctor saw this as a per se sign of child abuse and referred to CPS. This was a wealthy, professional family. Thankfully they had the resources to fight this, and the babies were never removed from the home to fostercare. I think the babies went to the grandparents, and one parent (the one who was not home at the time of the brain bleed) was allowed visitation. Once it was sorted out, the family literally left the US to never return because it was so scarring.

I knew a family who, when putting the baby to bed one night, found a bump on the back of his head. Took the child to the ER and the doctor called CPS immediately. They took the child into protective custody for two weeks. They were all interviewed and it turned out the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. That family, especially the mother, was traumatized. She quit her job to be a SAHM and they never had another kid. It's awful

So CPS worked in this case right?

They would probably not have found out that the nanny dropped the baby if they did not call. Thank goodness!

OMG. Taking a baby for TWO WEEKS is not a success.

It's easy for you to state this now because it turned out that the parents in this particular case were not hurting the child. We've read several other stories where one of the parents punched, dropped, kicked the child over a long period of time until they finally murdered the child.

What was CPS supposed to do? Move in with the family to protect the child while the investiagation was ongoing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people have had this... Its stressful but ultimately necessary to have such a system

No, it is not necessary to have a system with a hair-trigger for removing kids from the home.

In answer to your question OP - I knew someone who had a false Shaken Baby accusation made against them. Preemie twins, one had a brain bleed at home that is common in prematurity. The ER doctor saw this as a per se sign of child abuse and referred to CPS. This was a wealthy, professional family. Thankfully they had the resources to fight this, and the babies were never removed from the home to fostercare. I think the babies went to the grandparents, and one parent (the one who was not home at the time of the brain bleed) was allowed visitation. Once it was sorted out, the family literally left the US to never return because it was so scarring.

I knew a family who, when putting the baby to bed one night, found a bump on the back of his head. Took the child to the ER and the doctor called CPS immediately. They took the child into protective custody for two weeks. They were all interviewed and it turned out the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. That family, especially the mother, was traumatized. She quit her job to be a SAHM and they never had another kid. It's awful

So CPS worked in this case right?

They would probably not have found out that the nanny dropped the baby if they did not call. Thank goodness!

OMG. Taking a baby for TWO WEEKS is not a success.

It's easy for you to state this now because it turned out that the parents in this particular case were not hurting the child. We've read several other stories where one of the parents punched, dropped, kicked the child over a long period of time until they finally murdered the child.

What was CPS supposed to do? Move in with the family to protect the child while the investiagation was ongoing?

Nope, they are supposed to magically know that white, UMC families with nannies couldn't possibly abuse their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not to mention that even if the claims are found to be unsubstantiated, your name is in the system FOREVER.

This depends on where you live. In some places you can have your name expunged after a period of time if it was unsubstantiated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people have had this... Its stressful but ultimately necessary to have such a system

No, it is not necessary to have a system with a hair-trigger for removing kids from the home.

In answer to your question OP - I knew someone who had a false Shaken Baby accusation made against them. Preemie twins, one had a brain bleed at home that is common in prematurity. The ER doctor saw this as a per se sign of child abuse and referred to CPS. This was a wealthy, professional family. Thankfully they had the resources to fight this, and the babies were never removed from the home to fostercare. I think the babies went to the grandparents, and one parent (the one who was not home at the time of the brain bleed) was allowed visitation. Once it was sorted out, the family literally left the US to never return because it was so scarring.

I knew a family who, when putting the baby to bed one night, found a bump on the back of his head. Took the child to the ER and the doctor called CPS immediately. They took the child into protective custody for two weeks. They were all interviewed and it turned out the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. That family, especially the mother, was traumatized. She quit her job to be a SAHM and they never had another kid. It's awful

I don’t understand. How is CPS in the wrong in any way here? Their investigation turned up that the nanny dropped the baby and never told the parents. If not for CPS and the doctor who called the baby could have suffered from more neglect from that caregiver. I’m sure it was traumatizing but this story illustrates why we need CPS and why we have mandatory reporters.

Because there need to be more signs of neglect/abuse before you take a child away from its parents -- it's fundamental due process. Taking an infant away from its parents is about as extreme a deprivation of a fundamental right as one can imagine. It cannot be done on textbook definitions of "see this clinical finding, call CPS."

Just to give you a contrast about how good medical professionals handle this stuff:

My child (8) has bruises all over his legs because during DL he runs all over the house and bangs into stuff because he's antsy, and because he knocks his shins against his bike when he carries it up the stairs. I didn't really think much of it. When he went in for his well visit, his pediatrician said "Oh, I see all those bruises ... that's because you are a growing boy and running around!" I immediately told her yes, about the banging into furniture and the bike. She is very reasonable and observant, and she knows that parents don't bring in an abused child for their flu shot and well visit in the middle of a pandemic with zero concern for the doctor seeing the bruises.

I used to be a teacher. One of our mandatory online training was about Child Abuse. One thing that stuck with me was bruises on “hard” parts of the body (shin, elbow, knees, etc) is normal. But a pattern of bruising on the softer areas (biceps, belly) could be sign of abuse.

[Anonymous]

I have had one friend get investigated. Kid was a daredevil and unfortunately wound up with 3 sets of stitches and a broken arm over the course of 4 months. The process for her was not too painful.

As a mandated reporter, I have called CPS once when I found out in the end it wasn't abuse. I feel bad that the family had to go through the process, but I've also reported times when it was abuse. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have had one friend get investigated. Kid was a daredevil and unfortunately wound up with 3 sets of stitches and a broken arm over the course of 4 months. The process for her was not too painful.

As a mandated reporter, I have called CPS once when I found out in the end it wasn't abuse. I feel bad that the family had to go through the process, but I've also reported times when it was abuse. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Families that have cps called and it turns out to be false should be able to pursue legal remedies against the person who called and lied. If it were me in that situation I wouldn’t rest until I got some sort of revenge against the person that called.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had an experience with CPS a few years ago when my son was in a private kindergarten (our public school is only two hours/day for kindergarten). Apparently, a child told his parents that another boy had touched his privates. CPS shows up at my door demanding to enter and interview me. I was on maternity leave with my second child. It was all kinds of scary. The CPS lady interrogated me.

And then told me they wanted to interview my kindergartener - and that parents wouldn't be able to be with him during it. My husband and I were also questioned by a local detective.

What made you decide to let her enter your house and to answer her questions? Based on what I have heard in this podcast series, I want to believe that I would say no to interacting with them unless someone showed up with a warrant. I realize they are likely to threaten a removal to achieve what they can't get voluntarily, however.

We have a good friend who is a CPS worker in another state--every year we adopt 3-4 of the kids her agency serves for the holiday, so we have a good idea of what kinds of resources kids are lacking and workers are trying to provide. But 100% agree, the power they bring to the situation is scary.

If you are in doubt, just listen to the third episode of the "Do No Harm" podcast, which contains the taped interaction between the profiled family and the CPS worker the night he did the removal. Even he knew that what he was doing was dodgy as hell.

I probably should not have let her in the house without a warrant, but I was severely short on sleep and she claimed a right to enter. She checked things like working smoke detectors and the infant's crib, and all was cool. Fortunately, she didn't find the unlocked liquor or the unlocked cleaning supplies under the sink. Our attorney said it was probably the right move to let her in as any roadblocks may make them more suspicious (attorney was retained after this visit). I offered her a drink and calmly answered her questions, such as who would have had access to my child and could have abused him. I did have my wits about me enough to take notes on every question she asked so I was able to share that with my husband and the attorney later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had an experience with CPS a few years ago when my son was in a private kindergarten (our public school is only two hours/day for kindergarten). Apparently, a child told his parents that another boy had touched his privates. CPS shows up at my door demanding to enter and interview me. I was on maternity leave with my second child. It was all kinds of scary. The CPS lady interrogated me.

And then told me they wanted to interview my kindergartener - and that parents wouldn't be able to be with him during it. My husband and I were also questioned by a local detective.

What made you decide to let her enter your house and to answer her questions? Based on what I have heard in this podcast series, I want to believe that I would say no to interacting with them unless someone showed up with a warrant. I realize they are likely to threaten a removal to achieve what they can't get voluntarily, however.

We have a good friend who is a CPS worker in another state--every year we adopt 3-4 of the kids her agency serves for the holiday, so we have a good idea of what kinds of resources kids are lacking and workers are trying to provide. But 100% agree, the power they bring to the situation is scary.

If you are in doubt, just listen to the third episode of the "Do No Harm" podcast, which contains the taped interaction between the profiled family and the CPS worker the night he did the removal. Even he knew that what he was doing was dodgy as hell.

I probably should not have let her in the house without a warrant, but I was severely short on sleep and she claimed a right to enter. She checked things like working smoke detectors and the infant's crib, and all was cool. Fortunately, she didn't find the unlocked liquor or the unlocked cleaning supplies under the sink. Our attorney said it was probably the right move to let her in as any roadblocks may make them more suspicious (attorney was retained after this visit). I offered her a drink and calmly answered her questions, such as who would have had access to my child and could have abused him. I did have my wits about me enough to take notes on every question she asked so I was able to share that with my husband and the attorney later.

I am really sorry you went through this. Thanks for saying more about what it felt like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not me and I don’t know all of the details but I have an acquaintance that lost custody of her 3 children and still doesn't have any access to them, years later. They were all split up and living in foster homes across the country, no contact with their family of origin. She would go on these long rants on social media about how it was all part of a mass conspiracy and she was being innocently framed by a spiteful neighbor.

She was a nurse practioner and by all outside appearances seemed to have her life together. I guess not, though.

This is a real thing. It is called "weaponizing CFSA", and people have used CFSA to go after people. If your CFSA is incompetent or corrupt, it can cause a lot of trauma to a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people have had this... Its stressful but ultimately necessary to have such a system

You wait until they come for your kid. Every time a child is removed from their home, the federal government gives the city or county subsidized funds to help support the child's care. I can imagine some shady dealings in some places to fill in some holes in county budgets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had one friend get investigated. Kid was a daredevil and unfortunately wound up with 3 sets of stitches and a broken arm over the course of 4 months. The process for her was not too painful.

As a mandated reporter, I have called CPS once when I found out in the end it wasn't abuse. I feel bad that the family had to go through the process, but I've also reported times when it was abuse. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Families that have cps called and it turns out to be false should be able to pursue legal remedies against the person who called and lied. If it were me in that situation I wouldn’t rest until I got some sort of revenge against the person that called.

Except I didn't lie. Kid came in and had MULTIPLE bruises on their stomach, finger print bruised on their upper arm, and a spiral arm fracture. These are classic signs of abuse, you can ask any mandated reporter. So yes, in this situation the bruises were not caused by abuse but by a situational issue. But I've reported similar injuries where it was abuse.