Why can't non top tier privates just increase rigor and test prep to remove the perceived gap?

[Anonymous]

I think there's confusion over what rigor means in this context, muddled more as it's wedded with test prep in OP's title.

AP calc, bio, psychics are the same everywhere, aren't they? Depth and rigor really shows itself in writing ability, grasp of the classics, debate/public speaking and critical thinking...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there's confusion over what rigor means in this context, muddled more as it's wedded with test prep in OP's title.

AP calc, bio, psychics are the same everywhere, aren't they? Depth and rigor really shows itself in writing ability, grasp of the classics, debate/public speaking and critical thinking...

Some private schools go beyond AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was common knowledge that private schools in general aren't known for their "rigor"? If rigor is your sina qua non, there are any number of terrific public high schools around here with boatloads of AP classes.

Huh?

Of course not. The best private schools go beyond AP, for one. Look at the course catalog for Sidwell, Andover, and Exeter. Then tell me about how they don’t have rigor. I mean this with no disrespect, but you honestly don’t know what you’re talking about.

Are you serious? Those are all great schools that you mention, and undoubtedly more “rigorous” than many public high schools, but if “rigor” is what one is seeking, then you should be looking at top magnet schools. With all due respect, none of those schools - Sidwell, Andover, or Exeter - hold a candle to TJ in that regard, for instance.

Uh huh. Sure.

On STEM they are the same. Otherwise Andover and Exeter are miles ahead.

They aren’t remotely the same on STEM. Are you kidding me? The top 10% of students at any of those top privates would struggle to be in the top 50% at TJ. There is simply no comparison when it comes to math and science - and that holds for both the ability of the kids as well as the STEM-oriented resources and range of classes available at those schools.

Prove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was common knowledge that private schools in general aren't known for their "rigor"? If rigor is your sina qua non, there are any number of terrific public high schools around here with boatloads of AP classes.

Huh?

Of course not. The best private schools go beyond AP, for one. Look at the course catalog for Sidwell, Andover, and Exeter. Then tell me about how they don’t have rigor. I mean this with no disrespect, but you honestly don’t know what you’re talking about.

Are you serious? Those are all great schools that you mention, and undoubtedly more “rigorous” than many public high schools, but if “rigor” is what one is seeking, then you should be looking at top magnet schools. With all due respect, none of those schools - Sidwell, Andover, or Exeter - hold a candle to TJ in that regard, for instance.

Uh huh. Sure.

On STEM they are the same. Otherwise Andover and Exeter are miles ahead.

They aren’t remotely the same on STEM. Are you kidding me? The top 10% of students at any of those top privates would struggle to be in the top 50% at TJ. There is simply no comparison when it comes to math and science - and that holds for both the ability of the kids as well as the STEM-oriented resources and range of classes available at those schools.

Prove it.

Does TJ have this?

https://www.andover.edu/learning/gelb-science-center

[Anonymous]

Schools can and do elevate their reputations in our private school market. Look no further than schools such as Burke or St. Andrew’s, whose leadership have made significant investment in faculty, curriculum development and, at least in one case facilities. Their student profiles and the competition of their applicant pools have elevated meaningfully in the last 8 to 10 years. Sure, neither has or will break into “the big 3,”
But neither has intention to be known in those ways, each shines for very distinct qualities - and they aren’t the only schools to have advanced in these ways.

[Anonymous]

As someone who has lived in the area for 50+ years, there are private schools that are highly desirable today that absolutely were not viewed that way decades ago. I'm sure some of it was a conscious effort on the part of these schools, but I believe a lot of it is a result of increased demand and better students. But that also means that the Big 3/5/10 also are getting better students and becoming even more competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools can and do elevate their reputations in our private school market. Look no further than schools such as Burke or St. Andrew’s, whose leadership have made significant investment in faculty, curriculum development and, at least in one case facilities. Their student profiles and the competition of their applicant pools have elevated meaningfully in the last 8 to 10 years. Sure, neither has or will break into “the big 3,”
But neither has intention to be known in those ways, each shines for very distinct qualities - and they aren’t the only schools to have advanced in these ways.

Have the schools gotten particularly better or is the region booming and attracting far more very high SES private applicants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools can and do elevate their reputations in our private school market. Look no further than schools such as Burke or St. Andrew’s, whose leadership have made significant investment in faculty, curriculum development and, at least in one case facilities. Their student profiles and the competition of their applicant pools have elevated meaningfully in the last 8 to 10 years. Sure, neither has or will break into “the big 3,”
But neither has intention to be known in those ways, each shines for very distinct qualities - and they aren’t the only schools to have advanced in these ways.

Have the schools gotten particularly better or is the region booming and attracting far more very high SES private applicants?

Look at the changes in the applicant pools at the most selective colleges/universities, and even layers down, over the past 30 years. They aren't creating top institutions in the US at the same rate the population is growing, or that the applicant pool is expanding. DC and its private schools are no different.

[Anonymous]

^ Bingo. Schools are self-improving—albeit much of the things cited sound like window dressing—but the elevation we see in the last 10 to 15 years has far more to do with DC’s explosion of growth and wealth. The Big 3/4/5 only have so many seats, so thousands of strong applicants trickle down into mid tier schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Bingo. Schools are self-improving—albeit much of the things cited sound like window dressing—but the elevation we see in the last 10 to 15 years has far more to do with DC’s explosion of growth and wealth. The Big 3/4/5 only have so many seats, so thousands of strong applicants trickle down into mid tier schools.

Ha. Not everyone cares to attend a Big 3. Very smart kids often don’t like the environment. The pretension was over-whelming for my kid. Zero desire to apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or is increasing rigor actually quite difficult and/or expensive for a school to implement? Or perhaps parents would pushback if their children suddenly had a lot more homework and nightly studying and As were much tougher to earn?

Americans are so cute.

They actually think schools’ stature comes mostly from teaching and students’ work, and not from the students that get admitted, their preparation, their socialization, their peers, and their class.


Related:
Americans also believe people who work hard are rewarded with success in life. Again, cute and naive. Hard work is often important; more important is luck and inherited wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or is increasing rigor actually quite difficult and/or expensive for a school to implement? Or perhaps parents would pushback if their children suddenly had a lot more homework and nightly studying and As were much tougher to earn?

Americans are so cute.

They actually think schools’ stature comes mostly from teaching and students’ work, and not from the students that get admitted, their preparation, their socialization, their peers, and their class.


Related:
Americans also believe people who work hard are rewarded with success in life. Again, cute and naive. Hard work is often important; more important is luck and inherited wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or is increasing rigor actually quite difficult and/or expensive for a school to implement? Or perhaps parents would pushback if their children suddenly had a lot more homework and nightly studying and As were much tougher to earn?

Americans are so cute.

They actually think schools’ stature comes mostly from teaching and students’ work, and not from the students that get admitted, their preparation, their socialization, their peers, and their class.


Related:
Americans also believe people who work hard are rewarded with success in life. Again, cute and naive. Hard work is often important; more important is luck and inherited wealth.

This PP is pointing out a very salient fact. Many private schools - especially the ‘elite’ in this area - are class-based. They are too expensive and too little interested in true diversity to be merit-based. And the traditional populations of these schools prefer it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell, NCS, STA, GDS, Holton, Potomac . . .

And the generally accepted list of the next tier?

Maret, Field, Flint Hill, SSAS, Episcopal, Bullis, Landon, Madeira, Gonzaga

I have a child that declined a spot at a school on the first list to attend a school on the second list. The "less rigorous" school was a better fit for a variety of reasons, and a few months in to 9th grade I can report that child is happier than I ever could have hoped for, challenged, thriving. I think people have all sorts of different objectives when they look at private schools, not always just to attend the one with the best perceived reputation on this board and elsewhere, and it is great that there are so many options.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Just take a moment to appreciate the fact that our kids are healthy and that we’re able to have these debates. Feels good.