
Don't forget overwhelmed and sad. |
I was raised in a Christian home but am now a devout atheist; I never go to church; and I still celebrate Christmas with my family in our home. To me, Christmas is very much about Jesus. Even though I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God, I do believe that Jesus was and is an important person whose ideas about peace, caring for others, and mercy have had a huge impact on the world over the past two millenia. I believe Jesus' teachings are essential to human civilization and that the Golden Rule is at the core of the social contract. I feel perfectly justified in celebrating Jesus' memory and teachings even though I reject his divinity. Furthermore, we have taught our children than Santa Claus, which is a short form of Saint Nicholas, was sainted for his service to his community and his caring for children and young women by giving gifts and doweries in honor of the memory of Jesus (prior to his permanent move to the "North Pole"). To me, Christmas is a secular holiday but one that more than ever is about Jesus. |
12:40, totally fascinating post, and I'm not entirely sure what I think of it. Very interesting, food for thought, thank you for posting. |
I like 12:40's take, too. It's worth mentioning that Islam views Jesus as a very important prophet, and reveres him and celebrates his message. They just don't think he was the last prophet, or the son of god. So celebrating Christmas is not necessarily incompatible with Islam, either. |
I'm the PP who said that most people who celebrate Christmas probably come from Christian backgrounds. Obviously I was wrong and cannot speak for Hindus, Muslims, etc. Heck, I can only speak for one Jew. But from previous posts, it seems that Jewish people are the most likely to feel put off by Christmas celebrations, even the arguably "secular" ones. I don't know why that is, but it seems true. I really enjoy going to Christmas celebrations at the homes of Christian or non-religious friends, but when a few of my Jewish friends start with Hannukah bushes and blue lights and such, it makes my skin crawl. (I lied in my previous post when I said it doesn't bother me.) |
Who goes to church on Christmas? |
But, it isn't any of your business. I don't mean to sound harsh, but if a Jew wants to join in the fun then so be it. I would suggest that some element of Judaism think about making their holidays a bit more enjoyable. |
Atheist-raised-Jewish here. I don't have the "skin crawl" feeling that PP does but I can say that it is very common. My own very religious family threw a screaming fit once because my housemate and I had bought a Charlie Brown-type Christmas tree and I'd participated in buying and decorating it. For them, any gesture of accepting what they see as Christian culture is a betrayal of the Jewish people, whom they often remind me did not go through millenia of crap just to become fake Christians. I think that they are the extreme, but for many, there's kind of a siege mentality where you have to hold the line against the greater culture seeping into your home and swallowing your cultural identity. Jewish holidays aren't as much fun, it's true. I just explained to my Argentine plumber that Chanukah is like Christmas, but not as good. Flame away, fellow children of Israel, but let's face it: Jewish observance is a lot of work in exchange for very few things that appeal to kids. The religious philosophy could be equally beautiful to believers, but for trappings and rituals, Chanukah is Christmas's b-tch. |
12:40 poster here - I have to say, I do think there's something intellectually dishonest about celebrating Christmas and not simply acknowledging that it is the date Jesus' birthday is celebrated (not that you have to agree that Jesus is a god, I sure don't). But to ignore that, it seems to me, would be like saying that MLK Day is the long ski weekend in January (and has nothing to do with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.) or that the 4th of July has nothing to do with American independence (you just like the BBQ and pool parties). Christmas isn't just the "the shopping/frosty/mistletoe" day. |
Orthodox jew pp here - I have to agree in some respect. I think chanukah is a great holiday and there are lots of parties and fun, just when put up against christmas it seems lame. If it was in February, I think people would see more of its beauty and joy. Its not fair to the holiday to put it up against christmas. Its one of the reasons I dont necessarily want the token chanukah song included in the "holiday" singalong or the token 1 ft tall menoral next to the 8 ft tree. Christmas is huge and chanukah is small - but thats ok bc there are WAY more christians (and other people who celebrate christmas) than there are jews. |
PP here again - I disagree with the part that there isnt much to judaism that appeals to kids. If you believe that, you arent observing judiasm in the right, kid-friendly way. My kids LOVE the kids activities offered by our synagogue, the songs, the family-time we spend together on the sabbath, the holidays of purim, passover, etc. Judiasm is a religion that can bring kids in on many many levels. We dont have Santa and lots of presents, but there is plenty that is kid-friendly. |
I am sure Christmas was originally VERY boring - and still is in some parts of the world or for more religious folks. No trees, nice songs, cookies, Rudolph or even Santa. Just going to the mass at midnight (or watching it on TV), praying at home, putting up a nativity scene. Maybe in some years/decades Hanukkah/Chanukah will be more fun too? At least here in the U.S. |
I don't think there has been any denial that Dec. 25th is the date traditionally celebrated as Jesus's birth my those that believe it. But the point of this thread is whether you MUST BE CELEBRATING JESUS'S BIRTH AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR ON DEC. 25 or you're not allowed to say you celebrate "Christmas."
I'm not much one for proclaiming the miracle of his birth, but I am all about Chirstmas trees, stockings, gifts for loved ones, family gatherings, Christmas carols, twinkly lights, lots of festive spirit. I do show up at church on Christmas Eve most years, but it's mostly from a sense of tradition (and, of course, obligation). But I am still Christian - even if "better" Christians would deem me "not Christian enough" because I don't do, say and believe EXACTLY as they do. As for Jews feeling the most strongly that celebrating even secular aspects of Christmas is not okay - I totally get that. For many of the Jews in this country, it's been Christians who have tried to have tried to literally kill off their religion. I understand that celebrating anything even tangentially related to a religion that has been overtly and traditionally hostile to your own religion would seem really inappropriate. |
Or to think that Thursday has nothing to do with the God Thor, or Wednesday has nothing to do with Wodin? |
<3 you! |