Grosso comes out against a stand alone middle school for Shaw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The council gave Shaw to Banneker. [snip] ..let's figure out what to do with Shaw middle schoolers and how to find THEM a great experience too.


How exactly did they "earn" it? Have Cardozo kids done something wrong and failed to "earn" an adequate school?

You are conflating a physical building with an experience — and hoping readers won't notice.

Try harder.

Tell me again why Banneker students are more deserving than Cardozo/Shaw students. There are no test in options for middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IT isn't surprising that Grosso made this point in the WPost article. It's completely consistent with what he said at every budget hearing.

It is also consistent with what he has said in the past regarding Capital Hill middle schools. Made the same comment about Brent parents in particular not being willing to attend Jefferson a couple years back.

As a parent, that comment, coming from a non-parent, makes my blood boil and my family does not live IB for Brent OR Cardozo. If I wanted to transform a school, I would have become an educator. All children in Washington DC should have effective, safe, up-to-building code public schools to attend. People in OSSE and DCPS and DCPCS should do their jobs or they should leave.

This. ALL kids deserve an adequate school building. It isn't something you get as a reward for attracting high-SES kids. It isn't something you get as a reward for refusing IEPs and 504s. It is a basic right.

Of course they do. Is that at issue here?

Yes. It is often said that high-SES parents still won't enroll so there is no point in improving the building. Now, it is true that an adrquate building is only ONE piece of the puzzle (also need a competent principal, good teachers, and adequate behavior and academic support for kids at all levels). But a nice building should be provided for kids regardless of who enrolls.

You need 3 things for higher SES folks to enroll in a school

1. A principal who cares about courting higher SES folks
2. Tracking/Differentiation
3. A big enough cohort so people won't feel alone #3 only happens if 1 and 2 happen first

See Stuart-Hobson and Jefferson for success stories

Brookland, Cardozo, New North, MacFarland heck all MS EOTP should learn this is what it takes for higher SES folks to embrace public schools

Fixing the school building is not the most important factor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The council gave Shaw to Banneker. [snip] ..let's figure out what to do with Shaw middle schoolers and how to find THEM a great experience too.


How exactly did they "earn" it? Have Cardozo kids done something wrong and failed to "earn" an adequate school?

You are conflating a physical building with an experience — and hoping readers won't notice.

Try harder.

Tell me again why Banneker students are more deserving than Cardozo/Shaw students. There are no test in options for middle school.

I'm not going to get into the straw man argument about "more deserving" but I will say that Banneker needs better space for a highly successful program that attracts many low-income kids, most of whom have been the first in their families to go on to pursue four year college. It's an exemplar, and building it out with better facilities and expansion is of the highest priority. More so than building a MS where there is one already, and that one is under-enrolled. The build it and they will come argument about Shaw MS is a lacuna.

[Anonymous]

One thing has become perfectly clear through all this is the toxic culture at Banneker, led first by parents, teachers and adminstrators and trickled through to students.

You don't realize that you also have toilet paper stuck to your shoe, Save Shawster. As a casual observer with older kids in a distant part of the city, your subtext is painfully obvious every time you speak.

We long-time District residents remember that Cap Hill parents used similar rhetoric several years ago when they, just like you, asserted that they needed their very own, brand-new, by right schools to educate their offspring. You're too new to DC and too young to remember, but the dialogue is virtually interchangeable.

1. Existing by-right school in close physical proximity to your address is "not acceptable."
2. Your 2 - 6 year old is a very advanced learner who thrives on academic challenge.
3. Ideally, you'd like DCPS to carve out an all-new school for your demographic with attendance boundaries that ensure the ratio of your SES dominates any new school (although other demographic groups can attend, because hey, for the moment, they do still live in the dwindling number of inbound apartments).
4. You're silent as to why you and all your like-kind demographic can't just attend existing school (which incidentally is equidistant to your address as the new building you seek. Distance isn't a factor). No amount of programming or staff changes will make the existing school work for you.

We get it. You want an oasis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IT isn't surprising that Grosso made this point in the WPost article. It's completely consistent with what he said at every budget hearing.

It is also consistent with what he has said in the past regarding Capital Hill middle schools. Made the same comment about Brent parents in particular not being willing to attend Jefferson a couple years back.

As a parent, that comment, coming from a non-parent, makes my blood boil and my family does not live IB for Brent OR Cardozo. If I wanted to transform a school, I would have become an educator. All children in Washington DC should have effective, safe, up-to-building code public schools to attend. People in OSSE and DCPS and DCPCS should do their jobs or they should leave.

This. ALL kids deserve an adequate school building. It isn't something you get as a reward for attracting high-SES kids. It isn't something you get as a reward for refusing IEPs and 504s. It is a basic right.

Of course they do. Is that at issue here?

Yes. It is often said that high-SES parents still won't enroll so there is no point in improving the building. Now, it is true that an adrquate building is only ONE piece of the puzzle (also need a competent principal, good teachers, and adequate behavior and academic support for kids at all levels). But a nice building should be provided for kids regardless of who enrolls.

I think this is one of the big issues at play. Given current enrollment numbers, Cardozo is currently an "adequate school building." It obviously isn't the building people are choosing- but I think that has more to do with the other factors. If the scores were good, people would go. BUT, the scores aren't good. And people aren't going. So the community is asking for their "preferred school building." A standalone space. But arguing for a "preferred" space, when an "adequate" space is available is a tough hill to climb. The key here is that Cardozo will not remain an "adequate" building if enrollment goes up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

One thing has become perfectly clear through all this is the toxic culture at Banneker, led first by parents, teachers and adminstrators and trickled through to students.

You don't realize that you also have toilet paper stuck to your shoe, Save Shawster. As a casual observer with older kids in a distant part of the city, your subtext is painfully obvious every time you speak.

We long-time District residents remember that Cap Hill parents used similar rhetoric several years ago when they, just like you, asserted that they needed their very own, brand-new, by right schools to educate their offspring. You're too new to DC and too young to remember, but the dialogue is virtually interchangeable.

1. Existing by-right school in close physical proximity to your address is "not acceptable."
2. Your 2 - 6 year old is a very advanced learner who thrives on academic challenge.
3. Ideally, you'd like DCPS to carve out an all-new school for your demographic with attendance boundaries that ensure the ratio of your SES dominates any new school (although other demographic groups can attend, because hey, for the moment, they do still live in the dwindling number of inbound apartments).
4. You're silent as to why you and all your like-kind demographic can't just attend existing school (which incidentally is equidistant to your address as the new building you seek. Distance isn't a factor). No amount of programming or staff changes will make the existing school work for you.

We get it. You want an oasis.

Nobody is silent about why Cardozo Middle is unacceptable! It is underfunded, the high school takes all the admin attention, the principal wants the middle school out, it has no permanent AP in many years. If DCPS would improve Cardozo Middle then maybe this would work, but they have been unwilling to do so.

It is Banneker that prides itself on being an oasis. Maybe Banneker families shound invest in their neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

+1 Banneker = Oasis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This story points out many of the issues with schools in DC.

1) The school system needs to keep its mouth shut about schools getting new buildings until things are about to move.
Having been through the Bridges building debacle, the bait and switch and political fights around buildings could be avoided if this were treated as an administrative matter rather than a community decision.

2) Long range planning needs to happen, but it's hard in a city where major changes in students expected can happen at the drop of a hat. Will my family move to Maryland? Maybe. But probably not. DCPS has no idea if we should be part of their planning or not. I don't either.

3) Brookland Middle School is a case study in the reasons why throwing a ton of money at a middle school in quickly gentrifying neighborhood does little to attract high SES parents. There is no reason to expect a Shaw middle school would turn out differently than Brookland has so far.

4) Banneker is a good school. Resourcing them with a better building and/or location is a good idea.

5) To exclude kids with 504s from test-in schools on the basis of a 504 alone is illegal and shouldn't be happening. There should be objective criteria. It's also short-sighted as having a 504 means the parents are clued in to their kids' needs and not in denial about them, in many cases.

There are students with 504s at all the application schools. Mine included. “Students with SN” = Students with IEPs only. Don’t conflate the two. They are legally and substantively different.

Number of 504s isn’t allowed to be publicly reported by the US Dept of Ed. So no one here knows how many there are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One thing has become perfectly clear through all this is the toxic culture at Banneker, led first by parents, teachers and adminstrators and trickled through to students.

You don't realize that you also have toilet paper stuck to your shoe, Save Shawster. As a casual observer with older kids in a distant part of the city, your subtext is painfully obvious every time you speak.

We long-time District residents remember that Cap Hill parents used similar rhetoric several years ago when they, just like you, asserted that they needed their very own, brand-new, by right schools to educate their offspring. You're too new to DC and too young to remember, but the dialogue is virtually interchangeable.

1. Existing by-right school in close physical proximity to your address is "not acceptable."
2. Your 2 - 6 year old is a very advanced learner who thrives on academic challenge.
3. Ideally, you'd like DCPS to carve out an all-new school for your demographic with attendance boundaries that ensure the ratio of your SES dominates any new school (although other demographic groups can attend, because hey, for the moment, they do still live in the dwindling number of inbound apartments).
4. You're silent as to why you and all your like-kind demographic can't just attend existing school (which incidentally is equidistant to your address as the new building you seek. Distance isn't a factor). No amount of programming or staff changes will make the existing school work for you.

We get it. You want an oasis.

Nobody is silent about why Cardozo Middle is unacceptable! It is underfunded, the high school takes all the admin attention, the principal wants the middle school out, it has no permanent AP in many years. If DCPS would improve Cardozo Middle then maybe this would work, but they have been unwilling to do so.

It is Banneker that prides itself on being an oasis. Maybe Banneker families shound invest in their neighborhood schools.

+ 100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 Banneker = Oasis

Oasis filled with poor Black and Latino kids. Probably why white families wont go there but flock to SWW and Latin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 Banneker = Oasis

Oasis filled with poor Black and Latino kids. Probably why white families wont go there but flock to SWW and Latin.

Agree but it goes both ways

Why don't more black and latino kids go to SWW and Latin

Point being people are sorting on both "sides"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for Grosso for asking out loud why Shaw parents don't put in effort at Cardozo. He's come to his senses.

How does everyone know they aren’t? Some are. That doesn’t mean the current situation at Cardozo is fixable. DCPS has been asking the school to do a million thing for years. Splitting the middle school out of the high school is the most obvious solution. Cardozo EC is the *only* DCPS education campus that is both 6-12 and by-right for middle and high school. It’s not working, and that’s not the fault of the staff or students there.

Shaw parents are already working to improve Cardozo and Grosso appears to be unaware of it. The active parents' kids are too young to enroll. But DCPS and Grosso need to acknowledge that their neglect of Cardozo over many years makes it harder and is itself a factor in parents not wanting to enroll.

I hate statements like this. You realize there are other people living in Shaw besides those of you that have babies. Some of us have been living here for awhile and were doing things in the Shaw community before you decided to move to this neighborhood for your $5 lattes and Orange Theory. We actually care about the schools too.

I know. Shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for Grosso for asking out loud why Shaw parents don't put in effort at Cardozo. He's come to his senses.

How does everyone know they aren’t? Some are. That doesn’t mean the current situation at Cardozo is fixable. DCPS has been asking the school to do a million thing for years. Splitting the middle school out of the high school is the most obvious solution. Cardozo EC is the *only* DCPS education campus that is both 6-12 and by-right for middle and high school. It’s not working, and that’s not the fault of the staff or students there.

Shaw parents are already working to improve Cardozo and Grosso appears to be unaware of it. The active parents' kids are too young to enroll. But DCPS and Grosso need to acknowledge that their neglect of Cardozo over many years makes it harder and is itself a factor in parents not wanting to enroll.

I hate statements like this. You realize there are other people living in Shaw besides those of you that have babies. Some of us have been living here for awhile and were doing things in the Shaw community before you decided to move to this neighborhood for your $5 lattes and Orange Theory. We actually care about the schools too.

I know. Shocking.

I sincerely hope your children are enjoying Cardozo. But I am referring to the specific individuals who go to Cardozo feeder pattern working group meetings. Very few have a 4th or 5th grader that I know of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for Grosso for asking out loud why Shaw parents don't put in effort at Cardozo. He's come to his senses.

How does everyone know they aren’t? Some are. That doesn’t mean the current situation at Cardozo is fixable. DCPS has been asking the school to do a million thing for years. Splitting the middle school out of the high school is the most obvious solution. Cardozo EC is the *only* DCPS education campus that is both 6-12 and by-right for middle and high school. It’s not working, and that’s not the fault of the staff or students there.

Shaw parents are already working to improve Cardozo and Grosso appears to be unaware of it. The active parents' kids are too young to enroll. But DCPS and Grosso need to acknowledge that their neglect of Cardozo over many years makes it harder and is itself a factor in parents not wanting to enroll.

I hate statements like this. You realize there are other people living in Shaw besides those of you that have babies. Some of us have been living here for awhile and were doing things in the Shaw community before you decided to move to this neighborhood for your $5 lattes and Orange Theory. We actually care about the schools too.

I know. Shocking.

DP. And isn't this the problem with the Save Shaw crew? They haven't really reached out to the people whose children are Cardozo-aged or nearing. The immediate PP is right to be angry about the PK parents who want a unicorn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for Grosso for asking out loud why Shaw parents don't put in effort at Cardozo. He's come to his senses.

How does everyone know they aren’t? Some are. That doesn’t mean the current situation at Cardozo is fixable. DCPS has been asking the school to do a million thing for years. Splitting the middle school out of the high school is the most obvious solution. Cardozo EC is the *only* DCPS education campus that is both 6-12 and by-right for middle and high school. It’s not working, and that’s not the fault of the staff or students there.

Shaw parents are already working to improve Cardozo and Grosso appears to be unaware of it. The active parents' kids are too young to enroll. But DCPS and Grosso need to acknowledge that their neglect of Cardozo over many years makes it harder and is itself a factor in parents not wanting to enroll.

I hate statements like this. You realize there are other people living in Shaw besides those of you that have babies. Some of us have been living here for awhile and were doing things in the Shaw community before you decided to move to this neighborhood for your $5 lattes and Orange Theory. We actually care about the schools too.

I know. Shocking.

DP. And isn't this the problem with the Save Shaw crew? They haven't really reached out to the people whose children are Cardozo-aged or nearing. The immediate PP is right to be angry about the PK parents who want a unicorn.

Definitely. I mean, how dare they want a good school. The nerve.