No college? Another way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the (mostly) thoughtful responses. I think what bothers me looking down the road is that this has all the signs of a bubble: overvaluation, artificial scarcity, lack of regulation, cheating, etc. It's not an investment I would otherwise make. The value just isn't there, perhaps aside from a number of STEM programs.

My kids aren't trust fund kids. Anything spent on their education is earned by us, or is a loan. The whole approach to this seems crazy to me -- no transparency, corruption, very little concrete ability to perceive value. And the idea of just hand-waving how the "education" is worth it just seems like so much marketing fluff from this distance.

Move to Canada. (but, honestly: did you go to college? It must have been a pretty sh*** one, to leave you feeling it was valueless. Let us know where it was, so we don't send our kids there. And gosh... there is no scarcity of colleges. There are 5300 in the US. That's 100 per state. And of course there is regulation. https://www2.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation.html. I think you must be drinking some kool-aid. Although I do agree it is overpriced and not for everyone. If you are good with your hands, plumbers make a lot of money)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your poor kid OP! You've already ruined his/her life. Maybe put them up for adoption.

OP here. How so? By teaching critical thinking? Not to believe all marketing hype?

By demonstrating what a clinically paranoid mind looks like

[Anonymous]

I wonder about this too... I wonder if your kid could just enroll in some workforce development program... Online tech degree or certification that is linked to a job, if that would work... Check out google university or open classrooms/sales force partnership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ my cousin did it that way (community college) then transferred to a California University. And guess what? Her GPA was much higher than it would have been had she done all four years at the Cal University because grading was easier at the community college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ my cousin did it that way (community college) then transferred to a California University. And guess what? Her GPA was much higher than it would have been had she done all four years at the Cal University because grading was easier at the community college.

If you transfer usually the receiving college bases your GPA on the grades you earn at that college. But I have a feeling that someone who does that route is looking at college from a very practical standpoint (as opposed to "the experience") and has excellent study habits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who is coming up (current 6th grader) and I am seriously questioning the value of a college education in the current system. I don't trust the admissions process, and I think they are basically corrupt institutions that protect their own. From the outside now the current system just looks ridiculous. The cost is unethical, causing massive lifelong burden on the kids who can least afford it. It's appalling how little the colleges are taking responsibility for their part in the corruption scandal, and I can only assume it's because that scandal is just the tip of the bribery iceberg and colleges don't want to open that can of worms. I don't think there is a correlation between teaching quality and college level, so saying it is for the education seems false.

Has anyone had their kids who might have been competitive for a "good" college step out of this process entirely? Skip college or go to a community college and then transfer to a state college? I just feel sick about the idea of gearing up to give institutions that seem wholly corrupt thousands of dollars that were really hard to earn, for a degree of what I perceive as less and less valuable.

This is a very sensible approach but most DC types who post here think that's a step down. Ignore them. All that matters is where the final degree is from. Most states with a well developed state college system offers some sort of variation of this. If you are in VA, you need to meet certain requirements such as taking core courses and get a certain GPA. Each VA university has its own cut-off.

Since you just want a piece of paper, maybe. But if you are looking for actual education, then no.

NP. I got a ...gasp...actual education at my community college.

What a gross thing to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who is coming up (current 6th grader) and I am seriously questioning the value of a college education in the current system. I don't trust the admissions process, and I think they are basically corrupt institutions that protect their own. From the outside now the current system just looks ridiculous. The cost is unethical, causing massive lifelong burden on the kids who can least afford it. It's appalling how little the colleges are taking responsibility for their part in the corruption scandal, and I can only assume it's because that scandal is just the tip of the bribery iceberg and colleges don't want to open that can of worms. I don't think there is a correlation between teaching quality and college level, so saying it is for the education seems false.

Has anyone had their kids who might have been competitive for a "good" college step out of this process entirely? Skip college or go to a community college and then transfer to a state college? I just feel sick about the idea of gearing up to give institutions that seem wholly corrupt thousands of dollars that were really hard to earn, for a degree of what I perceive as less and less valuable.

I think you are worrying too soon. Your son is just finishing sixth grade and can mature in so many ways. I am not against Community college as I have two daughters taking classes there so not saying don't go there but, why assume he won't go to any college? The brain doesn't really mature until age 25 and you don't want to give him the impression that he can't or shouldn't go to college based on how he is today. Also, you talk about corruption but, not every college participates and that is part of life. Are you not going to use a bank because a the president of the bank went to jail, or watch a movie because of the "me too" movement?

People are flawed and when they do illegal things they can get caught and will be punished. Isn't it good that we know this Also, there are good in-state colleges that you can look at. Are you sorry you went to college? I'm sure there was corruption back then too but we didn't know about it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who is coming up (current 6th grader) and I am seriously questioning the value of a college education in the current system. I don't trust the admissions process, and I think they are basically corrupt institutions that protect their own. From the outside now the current system just looks ridiculous. The cost is unethical, causing massive lifelong burden on the kids who can least afford it. It's appalling how little the colleges are taking responsibility for their part in the corruption scandal, and I can only assume it's because that scandal is just the tip of the bribery iceberg and colleges don't want to open that can of worms. I don't think there is a correlation between teaching quality and college level, so saying it is for the education seems false.

Has anyone had their kids who might have been competitive for a "good" college step out of this process entirely? Skip college or go to a community college and then transfer to a state college? I just feel sick about the idea of gearing up to give institutions that seem wholly corrupt thousands of dollars that were really hard to earn, for a degree of what I perceive as less and less valuable.

This is a very sensible approach but most DC types who post here think that's a step down. Ignore them. All that matters is where the final degree is from. Most states with a well developed state college system offers some sort of variation of this. If you are in VA, you need to meet certain requirements such as taking core courses and get a certain GPA. Each VA university has its own cut-off.

Since you just want a piece of paper, maybe. But if you are looking for actual education, then no.

NP. I got a ...gasp...actual education at my community college.

What a gross thing to say.

DP Did you get a four year degree? I think that is what they are talking about. No need to get offended unless you are looking to. Btw, my daughter is getting her Associates degree so I am not against CC but she is going on to a four year college.

[Anonymous]

I wonder about this myself, OP, and I was a college professor in the hard sciences for a decade. The knowledge, that students can gain at elite universities at the undergraduate level, is available to anyone through books and professional journals (with some guidance on what is worthy of reading), with the exceptions of lab experience. For a motivated student, the theoretical knowledge could be obtained at a very small cost. The astronomical costs we see mostly go to pay for “undergraduate experience,” (including social aspects of it) and a piece of paper certifying to the outside world the students’ qualifications. There is a point when tuition costs are so high, that they don’t justify paying for those extras...

[Anonymous]

Btw, if you want to move to Canada, they require you to have a college degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Military, vocational school, get a job

PTSD, get recruited to a shitty for-profit colleges, squander your GI bill, take out loans anyway bc your military salary's risk of death bonus puts you out of proportion with your skills in the workplace.

Oh come on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder about this myself, OP, and I was a college professor in the hard sciences for a decade. The knowledge, that students can gain at elite universities at the undergraduate level, is available to anyone through books and professional journals (with some guidance on what is worthy of reading), with the exceptions of lab experience. For a motivated student, the theoretical knowledge could be obtained at a very small cost. The astronomical costs we see mostly go to pay for “undergraduate experience,” (including social aspects of it) and a piece of paper certifying to the outside world the students’ qualifications. There is a point when tuition costs are so high, that they don’t justify paying for those extras...

You must not have been a very good professor, if you didn't feel you offered anything beyond what students get from books.

There is a question you should ask yourself: up until the early 1900s, you could get a degree by test (in fact, my great grandfather was the last to become a laywer by test in CA. Abe Lincoln became a lawyer by test). Why have we given that up? When you can answer that, you'll understand why college is not going away (hint: it is not about learning facts which, as you said, have been readily available in books since Gutenberg).

[Anonymous]

I think you are justifying selfish spending op. All of knew when having kids that college was something to plan for. You didn't. You make valid points about the costs being outrageous for some schools but there are affordable options.

I know lots of people like you in the suburbs. I have neighbors with very expensive cars and houses they stretched themselves to buy and no money for college.
One of the moms I have to put up with at my kids sporting events is very snobby about purses and shoes but she and her husband have decided their kid can go into the military. The kid doesn't want to but they've decided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder about this myself, OP, and I was a college professor in the hard sciences for a decade. The knowledge, that students can gain at elite universities at the undergraduate level, is available to anyone through books and professional journals (with some guidance on what is worthy of reading), with the exceptions of lab experience. For a motivated student, the theoretical knowledge could be obtained at a very small cost. The astronomical costs we see mostly go to pay for “undergraduate experience,” (including social aspects of it) and a piece of paper certifying to the outside world the students’ qualifications. There is a point when tuition costs are so high, that they don’t justify paying for those extras...

You must not have been a very good professor, if you didn't feel you offered anything beyond what students get from books.

There is a question you should ask yourself: up until the early 1900s, you could get a degree by test (in fact, my great grandfather was the last to become a laywer by test in CA. Abe Lincoln became a lawyer by test). Why have we given that up? When you can answer that, you'll understand why college is not going away (hint: it is not about learning facts which, as you said, have been readily available in books since Gutenberg).

Well... you don’t seem to understand the difference between “anything” of positive value and something worthy of a half a million Of course, professors offer something beyond the facts in books, but is that “something” valuable enough to warrant spending so much money on? I can hire best professors privately to teach my kid at a fraction of a cost.