Why does mcps do a crappy job with magnet/enriched opportunities

[Anonymous]

"It is super important that we restrict the best opportunities for high quality intensive math and science education to a tiny fraction of the hundreds, if not thousands, of smart and motivated high school students in the region that could handle the work. Why would we want more kids to have a strong grounding in these areas, it's not like these are foundational skills that make a huge difference in our fastest growing industries...oh, wait.

And we wonder why the U.S. ranks so poorly on math and science performance compared with other nations... "

We have sent one DC through the SMAC and one through our home school AP track.

Our AP student was smart and motivated and is now has a 3.3 GPA in MechE at a top 60 engineering school.

Our SMAC child was two years behind and tutored our AP student often.

At the SMAC our DC was average and they spent their freshman year learning how to get As in hard classes and sleeping about 5 hours a night.

If our AP DC had tried the SMAC classes, it would have been a disaster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The actual programs they do provide are awesome.

Subscale in size.

Half of Bethesda does private school- skip the smoke and mirror games of MCPS.

And yet the schools in Bethesda are all over capacity. How about that!

And the townhouse and apartments and the residency fraud continues. How about that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"It is super important that we restrict the best opportunities for high quality intensive math and science education to a tiny fraction of the hundreds, if not thousands, of smart and motivated high school students in the region that could handle the work. Why would we want more kids to have a strong grounding in these areas, it's not like these are foundational skills that make a huge difference in our fastest growing industries...oh, wait.

And we wonder why the U.S. ranks so poorly on math and science performance compared with other nations... "

We have sent one DC through the SMAC and one through our home school AP track.

Our AP student was smart and motivated and is now has a 3.3 GPA in MechE at a top 60 engineering school.

Our SMAC child was two years behind and tutored our AP student often.

At the SMAC our DC was average and they spent their freshman year learning how to get As in hard classes and sleeping about 5 hours a night.

If our AP DC had tried the SMAC classes, it would have been a disaster.

My kids were quite similar. Both bright capable kids doing fine in college. Only one belonged in a magnet. The other got all he needed at our local school taking AP s.. he did not apply to the magnets and I don't wish they had more spots for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"It is super important that we restrict the best opportunities for high quality intensive math and science education to a tiny fraction of the hundreds, if not thousands, of smart and motivated high school students in the region that could handle the work. Why would we want more kids to have a strong grounding in these areas, it's not like these are foundational skills that make a huge difference in our fastest growing industries...oh, wait.

And we wonder why the U.S. ranks so poorly on math and science performance compared with other nations... "

We have sent one DC through the SMAC and one through our home school AP track.

Our AP student was smart and motivated and is now has a 3.3 GPA in MechE at a top 60 engineering school.

Our SMAC child was two years behind and tutored our AP student often.

At the SMAC our DC was average and they spent their freshman year learning how to get As in hard classes and sleeping about 5 hours a night.

If our AP DC had tried the SMAC classes, it would have been a disaster.

The high school programs are another issue, and most seem to agree that high school in MCPS allows for a better suited experience for most children. Would be interested in PP’s thoughts on whether both children would have benefitted from at least some of the elementary HGC/CES or middle schoool magnet curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, for the 2 PP above, I can see that for the high schools but most definitely not for the elementary or especially the middle schools, where high-achieving kids basically sleep for three years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It is super important that we restrict the best opportunities for high quality intensive math and science education to a tiny fraction of the hundreds, if not thousands, of smart and motivated high school students in the region that could handle the work. Why would we want more kids to have a strong grounding in these areas, it's not like these are foundational skills that make a huge difference in our fastest growing industries...oh, wait.

And we wonder why the U.S. ranks so poorly on math and science performance compared with other nations... "

We have sent one DC through the SMAC and one through our home school AP track.

Our AP student was smart and motivated and is now has a 3.3 GPA in MechE at a top 60 engineering school.

Our SMAC child was two years behind and tutored our AP student often.

At the SMAC our DC was average and they spent their freshman year learning how to get As in hard classes and sleeping about 5 hours a night.

If our AP DC had tried the SMAC classes, it would have been a disaster.

Your kids are older. There were significant changes in curriculum, testing etc. with 2.0 that has resulted in little to no differentiation for more academically inclined students. People are clamoring for magnet spots because there kids aren't getting any differentiation at their home schools.

My kids were quite similar. Both bright capable kids doing fine in college. Only one belonged in a magnet. The other got all he needed at our local school taking AP s.. he did not apply to the magnets and I don't wish they had more spots for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that differentiation is what we need to argue for.

Meet each group of kids at their level instead of mixing them all up together. It helps nobody. And the teachers are left feeling like they can’t serve any of the students well.

It is actually possible to meet most kids at their level while mixing them together. But the assignments need to allow for different results. Teachers would have to grade papers and projects that didn’t necessarily come with a one size fits all answer key or result in all children coloring in the same quickly recognizable pattern.

It really depends on the type of class. For classes that most kids (advanced/less advanced) need a lot of the teachers's guidance during class time (e.g. math classes where most kids still need the teacher to show how to solve various problems), this (mixing them up) will not work.

For classes where the aftershool assignments account for most of the learning process (e.g. reading, writing), the teacher can probably make this work by assigning different levels of homework etc. to different levels of students (and providing extensive feedback of course).

Learning measurement and perimeter, rigidly or differentiated:

Class lesson on the term perimeter and some examples of how to measure it. Then...

Rigidly: Here is worksheet with an aerial picture of a building on it. Measure the all the sides of the building in this drawing. Add them up to show the length of the perimeter. Teacher checks for same answer on each page.

Allowing for differentiation: Here is a blank piece of graph paper. Draw our school building on your page and then measure each of the sides. Add them up to show the perimeter. Teacher will get some papers with just four sides and some in which children remembered to include the shape of the entryways and the courtyard. Some will remember that the gym steps out and draw that, too. There will be many different drawings and answers and children will have largely adjusted to their own ability.

Well, the thing is, that this very rarely is the way it plays out. In reality, the teacher is just trying to get through the day, and the kids who have already mastered the material are left to play games on the Chromebooks, while the teacher does small groups with the kids who need extra help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't disagree with this generally, with a child new to a CES this year, but notwithstanding what some say on this forum, the CES classroom is filled with really bright, generally enthusiastic and motivated kids. That makes a lot of what they do in class work. One could replicate that in the larger ES's and MS's by simply tracking kids, but nobody, apparently, wants to do that.

Nobody wants to do that because it's bad for all of the kids who are, for whatever reason, in lower tracks. Research has established this over and over and over.

NP

It has showed that if the classes all have the same kids/teacher ratios. Research after research has shown that lower track kids need better teacher ratios. They also need accountability.

Make the higher track classes 25-30 to 1
Make grade-level track classes 20-25 to 1
Make the lower track classes 15 to 1 and supply aides to rotate as needed.

The biggest need is getting kids in early grades up to grade level. You will never ever get a child a few levels back to grade ability in a mixed classroom no matter how many times you pull them out for small groups (which we all know is not a lot.) Small groups also leave hours of wasted time when you aren't in a group and most of these kids are too embarrassed to ask for help from peers. And we all know the teacher is too busy. Small group sessions may work if there were two teachers or a teacher and an aide in the class, but right now MCPS has about 25 kids in a class with 1 teacher and about 6-7 ability groups for reading. If you have ever volunteered in any grade K-5th, you can see that it is a hot mess.

The problem everyone seems to think is that these kids will all know they are in the worst class and that kids will see a pattern (more hispanic and AA males in the lower class.) Well, I sure don't think mixing everything up perfectly between race, sex, and ability is working either. Not addressing the issues is what MCPS does best. Knowing they can't bring up the rear and decrease the front has been terrible. Why not have mixed classrooms and then at least mix whole classrooms for math for an hour in the morning and then reading for an hour in the afternoon. The 90 minutes of busy work so a teacher can attempt to get thru 5-6 groups a days for 10 minutes each is a negative for all of the kids. Our test scores show it too. The only schools doing well are the kids with parents that piggyback things at home.

This is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Most teachers would agree with you that this would be a huge improvement over the current sh(tshow that is an ES classroom in MCPS.

And, the kids know NOW who is a strong student, and who isn't. Keeping the kids in a mixed classroom isn't preventing that. I had kids in my DD's 1st grade class comment that they weren't as smart as Larlo because he was such a good reader and they were not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The actual programs they do provide are awesome.

Subscale in size.

Half of Bethesda does private school- skip the smoke and mirror games of MCPS.

And yet the schools in Bethesda are all over capacity. How about that!

And the townhouse and apartments and the residency fraud continues. How about that!

Which residency fraud, specifically, are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that differentiation is what we need to argue for.

Meet each group of kids at their level instead of mixing them all up together. It helps nobody. And the teachers are left feeling like they can’t serve any of the students well.

It is actually possible to meet most kids at their level while mixing them together. But the assignments need to allow for different results. Teachers would have to grade papers and projects that didn’t necessarily come with a one size fits all answer key or result in all children coloring in the same quickly recognizable pattern.

It really depends on the type of class. For classes that most kids (advanced/less advanced) need a lot of the teachers's guidance during class time (e.g. math classes where most kids still need the teacher to show how to solve various problems), this (mixing them up) will not work.

For classes where the aftershool assignments account for most of the learning process (e.g. reading, writing), the teacher can probably make this work by assigning different levels of homework etc. to different levels of students (and providing extensive feedback of course).

Learning measurement and perimeter, rigidly or differentiated:

Class lesson on the term perimeter and some examples of how to measure it. Then...

Rigidly: Here is worksheet with an aerial picture of a building on it. Measure the all the sides of the building in this drawing. Add them up to show the length of the perimeter. Teacher checks for same answer on each page.

Allowing for differentiation: Here is a blank piece of graph paper. Draw our school building on your page and then measure each of the sides. Add them up to show the perimeter. Teacher will get some papers with just four sides and some in which children remembered to include the shape of the entryways and the courtyard. Some will remember that the gym steps out and draw that, too. There will be many different drawings and answers and children will have largely adjusted to their own ability.

Well, the thing is, that this very rarely is the way it plays out. In reality, the teacher is just trying to get through the day, and the kids who have already mastered the material are left to play games on the Chromebooks, while the teacher does small groups with the kids who need extra help.

Well... yeah. That is the point. of this thread. It is awful and rigid now. Teachers spend their time at a little kidney-shaped desk with rotating groups of kids and they all plow through worksheets that are uninspiring, to say the least. But if MCPS would encourage true differentiation (not by paying lip service to GT education with an occasional extra rigid “enrichment” worksheet for some kids) and support that by giving teachers enough professional time to go through unique student work, the classrooms might feel less dreary and unsupportive. Sometimes, my kids have a teacher who tries to do this, and I am so grateful. But the teachers have to use the 2.0 worksheets and they are caught in a system which is relentlessly unimaginative and inflexible. The result? 30% of the class feels restless and stifled and 20% feels inadequate and horrible, kids act up, and teachers get bored and burnt out.

Basically, every time a teacher expects the same exact answer from all the kids in their class, differentiation didn’t happen. And that should be the exception, not the daily reality.

[Anonymous]

PP, and this is why tracking could help.

At least the teacher can stick with one lesson!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, and this is why tracking could help.

At least the teacher can stick with one lesson!

Tracking just creates levels in a rigid system and doesn’t necessarily promote true differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It is super important that we restrict the best opportunities for high quality intensive math and science education to a tiny fraction of the hundreds, if not thousands, of smart and motivated high school students in the region that could handle the work. Why would we want more kids to have a strong grounding in these areas, it's not like these are foundational skills that make a huge difference in our fastest growing industries...oh, wait.

And we wonder why the U.S. ranks so poorly on math and science performance compared with other nations... "

We have sent one DC through the SMAC and one through our home school AP track.

Our AP student was smart and motivated and is now has a 3.3 GPA in MechE at a top 60 engineering school.

Our SMAC child was two years behind and tutored our AP student often.

At the SMAC our DC was average and they spent their freshman year learning how to get As in hard classes and sleeping about 5 hours a night.

If our AP DC had tried the SMAC classes, it would have been a disaster.

The high school programs are another issue, and most seem to agree that high school in MCPS allows for a better suited experience for most children. Would be interested in PP’s thoughts on whether both children would have benefitted from at least some of the elementary HGC/CES or middle schoool magnet curriculum.

Remember that PP's children are much older, already in college. They went through school in pre-2.0 curriculum, which was not perfect, but did provide acceleration (differentiation) in Math and English in all schools. You didn't have to send your kid to an HGC/CES to get advanced instruction. 2.0 brought in sweeping changes to the curriculum, testing, and grading systems. I would not follow anybody's advice who had kids previous to 2.0. I just don't think it applies anymore. Though, now that 2.0 is on its way out, we will be back in uncertain territory (hopefully improved though!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, and this is why tracking could help.

At least the teacher can stick with one lesson!

Tracking just creates levels in a rigid system and doesn’t necessarily promote true differentiation.

NP. Is anyone willing to explain the difference between tracking and differentiation? I guess I don’t understand the terminology. I assumed that being on different “tracks” meant having varying levels of instruction and standards, which is what I thought differentiation is.

[Anonymous]

Yawn news flash if your kid isn't challenged in elementary school welcome to the club. What are you looking for exactly graduating high school multiple years early lol

Tracking isn't coming back. It's been shown to hurt lower performers who are all crammed into the same class and there is almost no effect on higher performers. The one place that tracking actually works is math. But again what do you all want taking Calculus in 9th grade lol

Yall need to take a chill pill.