Pediatricians salaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who is an OBGYN. She's 37 and just finished a fellowship in fertility medicine. She lives in a $1.6 mil home on the coast of Florida. Her salary for next year (with guaranteed bonuses) is over $400K. That's a nice chunk of change.

Good for her. She deserves it.

Totally agree she deserves it. But again, a specialized practice where people typically (of course, not always) pay out of pocket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, those are associates who start off generalized. In fairness, not all firms pay that $160K to first-years, but the marquee firms certainly do.

I have a friend who is finishing her externship as a diagnostic radiologist (think, for one example, mammograms). She does lots of procedures. Her starting salary next year in Houston: $450,000.

But she did a residency, whereas the lawyers did not. You see, the radiologist comes as well trained as any top tax lawyer on Wall Street. The residency training is like a second professional degree. When we pay lawyers, we are not always sure of their expertise. No board exam, no nothing except reputation, perhaps. The radiologists is not (never) getting paid above what other professionals with similar expertise get. Also, she risks her life with all that radiation exposure.

Also, fertility medicine is often cash only, like plastic surgery. The average OBGYN gets nowhere near 450K.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it's true that physicians like diagnotic radiologists can make upwards of 400K. Our medical reimbursement system in this country pays a zillion times better for procedural based specialties. There's very little ability to code and bill for managing someone's long term health problems, doing preventative care and or spending time educating patients. So the internists, pediatricians, and family doctors of the world currently make very little and hence there are severe shortages of medical students going into these fields (fields that are probably much more important and relevant to the health of all of us!)

[Anonymous]

I have to believe that there's something-- money, prestige-- that keeps doctors going back to work each day. Something other than a genuine desire to help people. Because a firm majority of doctors I encounter in this area are distant and condescending, and just plain rude. And I'm a super patient: well-read, compliant, respectful, etc. My dad's a doctor. I know how docs feel about being second-guessed or ignored altogether. Still, for all my pleasant demeanor, interest in my own care, etc, three out of four doctors I've met with don't make eye contact, grunt answers to my reasonable questions, and treat my body like an inanimate object. Am I to believe that a better salary would improve the quality of care? Why do they behave as if I have any control over the insurance payments? Frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to believe that there's something-- money, prestige-- that keeps doctors going back to work each day. Something other than a genuine desire to help people. Because a firm majority of doctors I encounter in this area are distant and condescending, and just plain rude. And I'm a super patient: well-read, compliant, respectful, etc. My dad's a doctor. I know how docs feel about being second-guessed or ignored altogether. Still, for all my pleasant demeanor, interest in my own care, etc, three out of four doctors I've met with don't make eye contact, grunt answers to my reasonable questions, and treat my body like an inanimate object. Am I to believe that a better salary would improve the quality of care? Why do they behave as if I have any control over the insurance payments? Frustrating.

What does your dad say is the reason?

[Anonymous]

There is no doctor shortage in this country. The US has one of the highest number of doctors to patients in the world. There are shortages in rural areas and that gets worse with time as rural populations themselves shrink. Doctors are often married to other professionals, so it is hard to place two professionals in good careers in low density areas.

The comment about rude behavior applies to all professionals. Does your plumber smile, do you pay the bill? My child's principal was sooo rude to me last month, but she still gets paid. Rudeness stinks for many reasons, and could lead to bad medical outcomes, but if the job is done, a payment is deserved. If you feel that your doctor is rude, tell him or her, then leave the practice. However, I hope you're not sometimes confusing rudeness with a serious demeanor.

[Anonymous]

Did somebody read my story written yesterday at 8:56 ?

Any comments?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I have to believe that there's something-- money, prestige-- that keeps doctors going back to work each day. Something other than a genuine desire to help people. Because a firm majority of doctors I encounter in this area are distant and condescending, and just plain rude. And I'm a super patient: well-read, compliant, respectful, etc. My dad's a doctor. I know how docs feel about being second-guessed or ignored altogether. Still, for all my pleasant demeanor, interest in my own care, etc, three out of four doctors I've met with don't make eye contact, grunt answers to my reasonable questions, and treat my body like an inanimate object. Am I to believe that a better salary would improve the quality of care? Why do they behave as if I have any control over the insurance payments? Frustrating.[/quote]

What does your dad say is the reason?[/quote]


What keeps you going to work everyday? Your genuine desire to help people? Why do you have to generalized? Did you read the story I wrote yesterday at 8:56? Certainly neither the money nor the prestige is going to keep me going back to work as a doctor for too long...

[Anonymous]

About that fertility doctor making $400K a year, there's a reason for that.

Rarely does insurance cover those procedures. My fertility doctors scared the bejesus out of us, then told us that they could help, encouraged us to keep trying as we emptied out every savings account and took on debt.

Many tens of thousands of dollars later, we did have a beautiful baby -- but I felt completely exploited. And I wondered if all the stress over the medical bills -- not to mention the enormous drug bills that no one forewarned us about -- made certain that I wasn't getting pregnant without many multiple IVFs. And every fertility patient knows that she's taking some kind of huge risk with all those hormones -- even though the fertility doctors say over and over that those drugs are just fine.

So to hell with the fertility doctors. They have certainly found the most lucrative racket in medicine -- for far less the work than heart surgeons and the like.

[Anonymous]

pp, was he supposed to do it for less? If so, what price did you have in mind. If insurance pays, they get $275 for an egg retrieval in a cycle, not much. Yes if you have many retrievals over time it adds up, but we are talking about elective procedures.

[Anonymous]

I go back to work (but not every day) because there are people who need my help, because I would like to be able to support my family if I had to (but believe me, we'd have to sell the house, go to district schools, and drastically alter our lifestyle), and because I need adult interaction every now and then. In that order. There's no prestige left in it, and the salary is not that great. Last year, had I worked full-time, I would have made 1/10 what my non-physician husband made (who spent 9 fewer years in formal education than I did). And I'm a surgeon.

I doubt it will be too long before I stop going back to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to believe that there's something-- money, prestige-- that keeps doctors going back to work each day. Something other than a genuine desire to help people. Because a firm majority of doctors I encounter in this area are distant and condescending, and just plain rude. And I'm a super patient: well-read, compliant, respectful, etc. My dad's a doctor. I know how docs feel about being second-guessed or ignored altogether. Still, for all my pleasant demeanor, interest in my own care, etc, three out of four doctors I've met with don't make eye contact, grunt answers to my reasonable questions, and treat my body like an inanimate object. Am I to believe that a better salary would improve the quality of care? Why do they behave as if I have any control over the insurance payments? Frustrating.

The problem is not the salary so much, but the amount of work that is required to maintain that minimal salary. I am a physician who no longer practices. When I was practicing in primary care, I made 110K seeing about 30 patients per day in the office plus whoever was in the hospital. I was working 11 hours a day, plus overnight every other week, plus an occasional Saturday clinic. Yes, I was cooked. And probably rude to some patients. If I had actually had time to spend with each patient and only had to see like 10 patients a day, I would have been so much happier. Heck I would have taken a pay cut to actually have time with my patients.

The problem is that you are on a treadmill to keep up with expenses in the face of lower insurance reimbursements -- so the way to make up for it is to see more and more patients. I would only go back to practicing if I worked for a practice that accepted no insurance.

[Anonymous]

For those comparing doctors and lawyers -- lawyers at law firms are more like MBAs, they are in business, which we in this country seem willing to pay for (through consumer goods, etc.) They compare to plastic surgeons or boutique fertility docs in the medical field. Prosecutors and public defenders would be thrilled to make $150K. Only a federal supervisory prosecutor with YEARS of experience would hope to make that much. So those lawyers are more comparable to pediatricians and family docs -- and they make even less (training isn't as long, so I don't begrudge, I am just saying neither is high enough). IMHO it all goes to show that our nation's economic priorities are totally out of whack.

[Anonymous]

Most doctors provide a service that has obvious value. You have appendicitis, they perform an appendectomy, you get better. Medicare pays the surgeon $315. The anesthesiologist get $180. When you look at the psychologists who charge $150/hr, or the decorator at $150/hr, the value is less obvious. To the pp who was unhappy about the fertility doctor's pay, there are tons of herbal/holistic remedies for infertility. Why didn't you go that route? That said, when you consider that appendicitis kills, medicine is the second best value service in our society. The most valuable would be an education, which can be done at home.

I do not think that there needs to be any comparison to public defenders. Most people in this country convicted of crimes, have no money to pay a lawyer, but when they do, they call Shapiro and pay $900/hr. Most people that need care have the money to pay, they just don't want to.

Agree with pp, fatigue and stress cause grumpiness, hence the rude doctors.

[Anonymous]

To the pp who was unhappy about the fertility doctor's pay, there are tons of herbal/holistic remedies for infertility.

Hello, ignorant much??
I couldn't let this pass without a comment although I know it's not relevant to the rest of the post.
Herbal remedies are maybe effective in some mild forms of infertility. They're not going to do anything in cases of fallopian tube damage, sperm counts of close to zero or the zillion other reasons why people resort to the services of fertility medicine.