The special misogyny reserved for mothers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wholly agree with the article but I think women of all ages face discrimination and stereotypes in the workplace. It just changes over time. As a young woman, you deal with assumptions and discrimination based upon your marital status and age relative to child-bearing. It's often presumed that if you're a 30-something woman, there's a good chance you'll be popping out a kid or two in the near future.

If you have a kid or two, the discrimination and stereotypes shift along the lines of what's mentioned in the article and by PPs. As you get further along in your career, the discrimination and stereotypes shift yet again.

Women have come so far in the workplace compared to decades ago but there is still a long way to go - something I didn't realize until I became more advanced in my own career and started a family.

When I was in my early 30's I had serious medical issues. Most of my *women* colleagues compared it to childbearing as a to relate. Here's the thing: as hard as it is, at least someone in the office will get it if you say you need to take your child to the doctor. I couldn't state my health issues or else I would be judged. Now that I am a parent, I can say that we have a long way to go when it comes to working mothers---and we also have a much longer way to go when it comes to accomodating serious illnesses in the workplace.

NP here- agree, 100%. I don't have kids, by choice, and in my experience people at work are usually understanding of parents if they need to take time for child related things but the parents are often harsh critics of non parents needing similar understanding. Not all of them but many.
Weird because as I've dealt with health issues I can say I'm WAY more sympathetic of moms needing time off etc than I was before. Life experience has shown me everyone has stuff to deal with in personal life but I feel like many parents don't acknowledge this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wholly agree with the article but I think women of all ages face discrimination and stereotypes in the workplace. It just changes over time. As a young woman, you deal with assumptions and discrimination based upon your marital status and age relative to child-bearing. It's often presumed that if you're a 30-something woman, there's a good chance you'll be popping out a kid or two in the near future.

If you have a kid or two, the discrimination and stereotypes shift along the lines of what's mentioned in the article and by PPs. As you get further along in your career, the discrimination and stereotypes shift yet again.

Women have come so far in the workplace compared to decades ago but there is still a long way to go - something I didn't realize until I became more advanced in my own career and started a family.

When I was in my early 30's I had serious medical issues. Most of my *women* colleagues compared it to childbearing as a to relate. Here's the thing: as hard as it is, at least someone in the office will get it if you say you need to take your child to the doctor. I couldn't state my health issues or else I would be judged. Now that I am a parent, I can say that we have a long way to go when it comes to working mothers---and we also have a much longer way to go when it comes to accomodating serious illnesses in the workplace.

NP here- agree, 100%. I don't have kids, by choice, and in my experience people at work are usually understanding of parents if they need to take time for child related things but the parents are often harsh critics of non parents needing similar understanding. Not all of them but many.
Weird because as I've dealt with health issues I can say I'm WAY more sympathetic of moms needing time off etc than I was before. Life experience has shown me everyone has stuff to deal with in personal life but I feel like many parents don't acknowledge this.

I'm sorry that's your experience. Having a baby has made me so much more empathetic to all people who are suffering, especially at the expense of a crappy healthcare system and workforce that punishes sick people (even though, as you say, almost everyone becomes sick or has to help a sick family member at some point in their career). You should start a new thread about this important issue. The point of this thread was to talk about the special misogyny reserved for women, and the lack of support and interest in postnatal trauma. By hijacking the discussion, you're proving the author's point: no one cares about women's health issues.

[Anonymous]

What is meant by the misogyny? By downplaying women's birth injuries or what? Anyone who believes that a woman can push out a 10-lb human from her insides and be unscathed is seriously deluded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wholly agree with the article but I think women of all ages face discrimination and stereotypes in the workplace. It just changes over time. As a young woman, you deal with assumptions and discrimination based upon your marital status and age relative to child-bearing. It's often presumed that if you're a 30-something woman, there's a good chance you'll be popping out a kid or two in the near future.

If you have a kid or two, the discrimination and stereotypes shift along the lines of what's mentioned in the article and by PPs. As you get further along in your career, the discrimination and stereotypes shift yet again.

Women have come so far in the workplace compared to decades ago but there is still a long way to go - something I didn't realize until I became more advanced in my own career and started a family.

When I was in my early 30's I had serious medical issues. Most of my *women* colleagues compared it to childbearing as a to relate. Here's the thing: as hard as it is, at least someone in the office will get it if you say you need to take your child to the doctor. I couldn't state my health issues or else I would be judged. Now that I am a parent, I can say that we have a long way to go when it comes to working mothers---and we also have a much longer way to go when it comes to accomodating serious illnesses in the workplace.

NP here- agree, 100%. I don't have kids, by choice, and in my experience people at work are usually understanding of parents if they need to take time for child related things but the parents are often harsh critics of non parents needing similar understanding. Not all of them but many.
Weird because as I've dealt with health issues I can say I'm WAY more sympathetic of moms needing time off etc than I was before. Life experience has shown me everyone has stuff to deal with in personal life but I feel like many parents don't acknowledge this.

I'm sorry that's your experience. Having a baby has made me so much more empathetic to all people who are suffering, especially at the expense of a crappy healthcare system and workforce that punishes sick people (even though, as you say, almost everyone becomes sick or has to help a sick family member at some point in their career). You should start a new thread about this important issue. The point of this thread was to talk about the special misogyny reserved for women, and the lack of support and interest in postnatal trauma. By hijacking the discussion, you're proving the author's point: no one cares about women's health issues.

+1

The hijacking in this thread is a prime example of what the author is talking about.

[Anonymous]

I remember reading an article about a woman who couldn't get funding for an app that would help mothers with breastfeeding. All of the techbros in Silicon Valley just weren't interested in a mom app, even though it seems like such a no-brainer. New mothers are constantly trying to figure out how to pump effectively and less painfully.

Can you imagine if men had to pump? There would be helpful apps, discrete and mobile machines, and our insurance companies wouldn't try to give them the crappiest model on the market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember reading an article about a woman who couldn't get funding for an app that would help mothers with breastfeeding. All of the techbros in Silicon Valley just weren't interested in a mom app, even though it seems like such a no-brainer. New mothers are constantly trying to figure out how to pump effectively and less painfully.

Can you imagine if men had to pump? There would be helpful apps, discrete and mobile machines, and our insurance companies wouldn't try to give them the crappiest model on the market.

+1

Looking at you BCBS and Ameda!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just wait until you hit 50 or put on some weight. Hatred of women is rampant. Men like Trump partly because he exhibits their latent views on women. (dump older wife, marry porn model, hire only "hot" women, feel entitled to sex wherever you can get it).

None of your claims after factual, nice try and get theev to the gym

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember reading an article about a woman who couldn't get funding for an app that would help mothers with breastfeeding. All of the techbros in Silicon Valley just weren't interested in a mom app, even though it seems like such a no-brainer. New mothers are constantly trying to figure out how to pump effectively and less painfully.

Can you imagine if men had to pump? There would be helpful apps, discrete and mobile machines, and our insurance companies wouldn't try to give them the crappiest model on the market.

The issue is that it's such a small market and a temporary time period it wouldn't have the demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember reading an article about a woman who couldn't get funding for an app that would help mothers with breastfeeding. All of the techbros in Silicon Valley just weren't interested in a mom app, even though it seems like such a no-brainer. New mothers are constantly trying to figure out how to pump effectively and less painfully.

Can you imagine if men had to pump? There would be helpful apps, discrete and mobile machines, and our insurance companies wouldn't try to give them the crappiest model on the market.

The issue is that it's such a small market and a temporary time period it wouldn't have the demand.

It's a HUGE market! If your assumption is correct, then nursing clothes, covers, and related products also wouldn't sell very well. But they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is meant by the misogyny? By downplaying women's birth injuries or what? Anyone who believes that a woman can push out a 10-lb human from her insides and be unscathed is seriously deluded.

It’s all individual. Maybe a large baby like that always does damage, but medically I have no idea. As someone who was lucky enough to have no birth injuries, I frankly get sick of the narrative that women’s bodies are “ruined” by child bearing. I had two 7 pound babies and am, in fact, completely unscathed. This is not to undermine women who had a different experience, but to say that women and mothers should be treated as individual humans, both by the medical establishment and society at large, rather than as some collective unit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is meant by the misogyny? By downplaying women's birth injuries or what? Anyone who believes that a woman can push out a 10-lb human from her insides and be unscathed is seriously deluded.

It’s all individual. Maybe a large baby like that always does damage, but medically I have no idea. As someone who was lucky enough to have no birth injuries, I frankly get sick of the narrative that women’s bodies are “ruined” by child bearing. I had two 7 pound babies and am, in fact, completely unscathed. This is not to undermine women who had a different experience, but to say that women and mothers should be treated as individual humans, both by the medical establishment and society at large, rather than as some collective unit.

You're missing the point. Did you read the article or simple want to weigh in with your own memory of having a baby. The narrative that women's bodies are ruined is misogynistic because society expects perfect bodies; but this is a separate issue from providing a public platform for pregnant and postpartum women. Many do experience health issues at some point, from physical scars of C-sections to PPD. Most of the time, mothers are left discussing these problems on anonymous websites like this because they aren't given the same pubic platform as other demographics (seriously, do we need another podcast hosted by two white dudes???). Disinterest and downright scorn for women and experts who want to brooch these topics is a collective issue. If we can have these conversations in a more productive way, then they would certainly focus on individual situations and bring much-needed nuance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was single until 32 and had my first at 35. I actually disagree moms get it worse. I say it’s different but about equal for women.

Single women get treated like they are always trying to use s3x to get ahead. Also, they are treated as not serious in their professional commitments and I was dumped on hard by an older colleague who took 2 long ass maternity leaves on my watch as a single and I was expected to have no reason to complain. I think I’m respected as a wife and mom and I don’t use my kid as an excuse for anything (I just say I have an appointment and leave it at that if I need to run an errand for my kid). And healthcare sucks for women regardless - hello mysogyny in access to HPV vaccines or birth control.

Your entire post is a form of misogyny. You trash another woman's "long ass" maternity leave and then brag about how you're respected because you don't use your child as an "excuse." Your upholding the structures that make it difficult for all women to succeed in their careers and also acknowledge the labor of motherhood--which should be acknowledged and not merely dismissed as inconvenient to other people.

PP. anyone who defended me earlier was not me. My point is I think it’s equally bad for women not worse for moms. No, it’s not misogyny to point out that colleagues cover for mom’s maternity leaves and some moms take advantage of the system. That’s a reality and you can’t ignore it. Also my issue with her maternity leaves wasn’t that she took then, it was that I as a single was expected to shoulder the work and accept the damage to our business without complaint. And they were longer than they needed to be.

I didn’t brag about anything. I said I feel respected AND I said I don’t mention my kids at all when taking time. Same as I wouldn’t say I was taking care of elderly parents or getting my nails done or going to the gym/ doctor or whatever. I’d just say it was personal and needed the time. And the more personal time anyone takes, the more they need to be willing to make it up on nights or weekends or covering for others. If you want a decent system at work, you don’t set up a system where single women don’t have access to the “legitimate excuses” for personal time. Obviously for long leaves (surgery, maternity leave, serious illness), people know why bc we’re human and have relationships and people talk.

To another poster, yes I read the article. She came off to me as fairly self promoting. Her biggest complaint seems to be that she struggled to get her podcast going in the beginning - cry me a river and just be content to have proven them wrong. She also describes herself as a reluctant feminist and young mom. She strikes me as naive about mysogyny and motherhood happened to be what knocked her blinders off. I recall she had a horrible birth injury and I agree there’s a lot of mysoginy and disfunction in women’s health care, and I sympathize, but I think it’s a women’s health issue not mom’s issue.

What is this "system" that you speak of that moms are taking advantage of? Most people don't have maternity leave that is paid for by their company and are forced to cobble together sick leave, their own money, and maybe a short term disability policy if they are lucky. The only thing people are supposedly guaranteed is that they cant take 12 weeks and their job will still be there for them. You sound like the epitome of the trying too hard "cool girl" who is willing to throw other women under the bus to fit in with "the guys."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wholly agree with the article but I think women of all ages face discrimination and stereotypes in the workplace. It just changes over time. As a young woman, you deal with assumptions and discrimination based upon your marital status and age relative to child-bearing. It's often presumed that if you're a 30-something woman, there's a good chance you'll be popping out a kid or two in the near future.

If you have a kid or two, the discrimination and stereotypes shift along the lines of what's mentioned in the article and by PPs. As you get further along in your career, the discrimination and stereotypes shift yet again.

Women have come so far in the workplace compared to decades ago but there is still a long way to go - something I didn't realize until I became more advanced in my own career and started a family.

When I was in my early 30's I had serious medical issues. Most of my *women* colleagues compared it to childbearing as a to relate. Here's the thing: as hard as it is, at least someone in the office will get it if you say you need to take your child to the doctor. I couldn't state my health issues or else I would be judged. Now that I am a parent, I can say that we have a long way to go when it comes to working mothers---and we also have a much longer way to go when it comes to accomodating serious illnesses in the workplace.

NP here- agree, 100%. I don't have kids, by choice, and in my experience people at work are usually understanding of parents if they need to take time for child related things but the parents are often harsh critics of non parents needing similar understanding. Not all of them but many.
Weird because as I've dealt with health issues I can say I'm WAY more sympathetic of moms needing time off etc than I was before. Life experience has shown me everyone has stuff to deal with in personal life but I feel like many parents don't acknowledge this.

You're saying "parents" but do you mean moms or dads? I'm wondering if your first parents (the ones that run out the door) are moms, and your second parents (they ones who look down on people taking time off for non-child related things) are dads. I'm not trying to be sexist, just realistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wholly agree with the article but I think women of all ages face discrimination and stereotypes in the workplace. It just changes over time. As a young woman, you deal with assumptions and discrimination based upon your marital status and age relative to child-bearing. It's often presumed that if you're a 30-something woman, there's a good chance you'll be popping out a kid or two in the near future.

If you have a kid or two, the discrimination and stereotypes shift along the lines of what's mentioned in the article and by PPs. As you get further along in your career, the discrimination and stereotypes shift yet again.

Women have come so far in the workplace compared to decades ago but there is still a long way to go - something I didn't realize until I became more advanced in my own career and started a family.

When I was in my early 30's I had serious medical issues. Most of my *women* colleagues compared it to childbearing as a to relate. Here's the thing: as hard as it is, at least someone in the office will get it if you say you need to take your child to the doctor. I couldn't state my health issues or else I would be judged. Now that I am a parent, I can say that we have a long way to go when it comes to working mothers---and we also have a much longer way to go when it comes to accomodating serious illnesses in the workplace.

NP here- agree, 100%. I don't have kids, by choice, and in my experience people at work are usually understanding of parents if they need to take time for child related things but the parents are often harsh critics of non parents needing similar understanding. Not all of them but many.
Weird because as I've dealt with health issues I can say I'm WAY more sympathetic of moms needing time off etc than I was before. Life experience has shown me everyone has stuff to deal with in personal life but I feel like many parents don't acknowledge this.

I'm sorry that's your experience. Having a baby has made me so much more empathetic to all people who are suffering, especially at the expense of a crappy healthcare system and workforce that punishes sick people (even though, as you say, almost everyone becomes sick or has to help a sick family member at some point in their career). You should start a new thread about this important issue. The point of this thread was to talk about the special misogyny reserved for women, and the lack of support and interest in postnatal trauma. By hijacking the discussion, you're proving the author's point: no one cares about women's health issues.

+1

The hijacking in this thread is a prime example of what the author is talking about.

This should be a separate thread but Im with the previous PP that moms of multiple kids are into their own struggles and do not have any empathy to other woman who are not like them.