Cursive in Elementary School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilarious to see these parents justifying elimination of teaching a useful skill. The public school vs private school kids will be obvious in one more way...who can properly handwrite a thank you note. Love it.

Or who can take shorthand notes when laptops not allowed at meeting or lecture, etc.

Yes, academics in the US started going downhill when schools stopped requiring everyone to take shorthand.

Wait, what?

By context, it's clear that the poster was referring to handwriting as 'shorthand' -- not the stenography-type shorthand...

Ok? Clearer now?

Who does that? Is that common? I don't think I've ever seen anybody do that before.

You must be one of those people who like to nitpick and argue around the central issue in order to what? Look cool? Look smart? Right now you look foolish and annoying.

Big picture is there is not handwriting or cursive or note-taking in school by hand. We all agree.

Moving on, yes, lots of people take notes by hand in all sorts of jobs in the field and in the office.

I was recently appalled with I noticed my 4th grade has basic English STROKE ORDER messed up so can't write at a decent speed whatsoever. No one over the course of MCPS K-4 noticed nor correctly how she writes Os and 0s counter-clockewise. Or makes certain printed letters right side to left side, yet we right in English from left to right, top to down thus any handwriting my daughter does is back and forth and back and forth.

We have a handwriting tutor starting this weekend.

I thought she meant shorthand too, as I've never heard the terms used to refer to cursive. I don't think seeking clarification of an unfamiliar term to be foolish or annoying.

So weird. Let's talk about it some more. I like hiding my head in this rabbit hole, makes me feel so good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this really a question? You can teach your kid how to sign their name in cursive if it bothers you so much. It should take all of 15 minutes. Or even easier, show their name in one of the cursive fonts in Microsoft word and have them copy it.

OP is like one of the people mourning the lost art of calligraphy. Move on. Kids shouldn't be wasting time learning cursive-when the US is so far behind in STEM education.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Stem is not an end all be all, it is part of a larger educational mileau.

As an example, Japanese children learn to write kanji (Chinese characters) hiragana and katakana (two different syllabaries one for Japanese words and one for foreign words) plus they learn English. They learn 4 different written scripts. They excel at STEM, they don’t touch a computer in school until highschool.

Learning is learning. Our children need to learn to write and to write, it helps their brain develop which helps them become proficient at other tasks. Kids needs play and recess too. The need to learn rote math skills (not Common Core abstractions when their brains are not developed for abstract thought). These rote skills are building blocks upon which the higher mathematic principles are formed.

Do we want our children to be educated adults or robots?

It makes no sense, you cannot be adept at science unless you are highly literate, learning cursive helps improve literacy; verbal, reading, and writing) proficiency. That is scientific fact. How can one be so proSTEM and anti-science at the same time??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this really a question? You can teach your kid how to sign their name in cursive if it bothers you so much. It should take all of 15 minutes. Or even easier, show their name in one of the cursive fonts in Microsoft word and have them copy it.

OP is like one of the people mourning the lost art of calligraphy. Move on. Kids shouldn't be wasting time learning cursive-when the US is so far behind in STEM education.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Stem is not an end all be all, it is part of a larger educational mileau.

As an example, Japanese children learn to write kanji (Chinese characters) hiragana and katakana (two different syllabaries one for Japanese words and one for foreign words) plus they learn English. They learn 4 different written scripts. They excel at STEM, they don’t touch a computer in school until highschool.

Learning is learning. Our children need to learn to write and to write, it helps their brain develop which helps them become proficient at other tasks. Kids needs play and recess too. The need to learn rote math skills (not Common Core abstractions when their brains are not developed for abstract thought). These rote skills are building blocks upon which the higher mathematic principles are formed.

Do we want our children to be educated adults or robots?

It makes no sense, you cannot be adept at science unless you are highly literate, learning cursive helps improve literacy; verbal, reading, and writing) proficiency. That is scientific fact. How can one be so proSTEM and anti-science at the same time??

Same poster, perhaps I need more cursive practice, then I wouldn't write with so many errors lol (or perhaps we take our time when we handwrite thus reducing errors or when we rapid fire hack out words on a keyboard or smart phone, we pay less attention).

[Anonymous]

In VA, they are supposed to learn this in 2nd and 3rd grade, but many students do not get the instruction. You can go online and look for tutorials (Zaner-Blosser, for example) and teach your child yourself.

Benefits include: having a signature, and being able to read historical text. Or even reading a letter from Grandma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this really a question? You can teach your kid how to sign their name in cursive if it bothers you so much. It should take all of 15 minutes. Or even easier, show their name in one of the cursive fonts in Microsoft word and have them copy it.

OP is like one of the people mourning the lost art of calligraphy. Move on. Kids shouldn't be wasting time learning cursive-when the US is so far behind in STEM education.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Stem is not an end all be all, it is part of a larger educational mileau.

As an example, Japanese children learn to write kanji (Chinese characters) hiragana and katakana (two different syllabaries one for Japanese words and one for foreign words) plus they learn English. They learn 4 different written scripts. They excel at STEM, they don’t touch a computer in school until highschool.

Learning is learning. Our children need to learn to write and to write, it helps their brain develop which helps them become proficient at other tasks. Kids needs play and recess too. The need to learn rote math skills (not Common Core abstractions when their brains are not developed for abstract thought). These rote skills are building blocks upon which the higher mathematic principles are formed.

Do we want our children to be educated adults or robots?

It makes no sense, you cannot be adept at science unless you are highly literate, learning cursive helps improve literacy; verbal, reading, and writing) proficiency. That is scientific fact. How can one be so proSTEM and anti-science at the same time??

The private STEM schools in America also have a healthy dose of social studies, civics and history. This is important because it is very clear in the country, that many groups of people cannot relate to one another nor have any clue about American History.

BASIS schools, Stratford schools, etc. Then of course you get to DC and have the social justice private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilarious to see these parents justifying elimination of teaching a useful skill. The public school vs private school kids will be obvious in one more way...who can properly handwrite a thank you note. Love it.

Or who can take shorthand notes when laptops not allowed at meeting or lecture, etc.

Yes, academics in the US started going downhill when schools stopped requiring everyone to take shorthand.

Wait, what?

By context, it's clear that the poster was referring to handwriting as 'shorthand' -- not the stenography-type shorthand...

Ok? Clearer now?

My kid does NOT know how to take notes on paper.

I hate it.

Furthermore, I totally agree with all the studies that show physically writing or reading something on paper drills it into the brain and memory better. Better than blitz reading it on the screen, better than "composing " an essay on a computer that really is 6 iterations of slop and editing (ie. no planning, no outline, no thesis, no topic sentences + transitions that make sense. Just slop it down, refine, slop it down, refine, slop some more down, out of time turn it in, no feedback anyhow). Such sad writing skills nowadays at school.

This is so true! and sad. K-12 writing nowadays is hen-pecking at a keyboard for K-3. Then revising your hen-pecking for grades 4-6. Then some essays where you have minimal frameworks ever taught for 7-9, and then AP computer essay practice 9-12.

When does the thinking come in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It makes no sense, you cannot be adept at science unless you are highly literate, learning cursive helps improve literacy; verbal, reading, and writing) proficiency. That is scientific fact. How can one be so proSTEM and anti-science at the same time??

Could you post some links to some of this research that learning cursive, specifically, helps improve literacy and verbal proficiency? Not handwriting in general - specifically cursive. For children without particular special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You must be one of those people who like to nitpick and argue around the central issue in order to what? Look cool? Look smart? Right now you look foolish and annoying.

Big picture is there is not handwriting or cursive or note-taking in school by hand. We all agree.

Moving on, yes, lots of people take notes by hand in all sorts of jobs in the field and in the office.

I was recently appalled with I noticed my 4th grade has basic English STROKE ORDER messed up so can't write at a decent speed whatsoever. No one over the course of MCPS K-4 noticed nor correctly how she writes Os and 0s counter-clockewise. Or makes certain printed letters right side to left side, yet we right in English from left to right, top to down thus any handwriting my daughter does is back and forth and back and forth.

We have a handwriting tutor starting this weekend.

I wrote my os and 0s counterclockwise. That's how you're supposed to do it.

[Anonymous]

meant starts at bottom and connects it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It makes no sense, you cannot be adept at science unless you are highly literate, learning cursive helps improve literacy; verbal, reading, and writing) proficiency. That is scientific fact. How can one be so proSTEM and anti-science at the same time??

Could you post some links to some of this research that learning cursive, specifically, helps improve literacy and verbal proficiency? Not handwriting in general - specifically cursive. For children without particular special needs.

Yes, please because all I have is anecdata that shows the opposite: two highly literate kids who can't write English cursive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It makes no sense, you cannot be adept at science unless you are highly literate, learning cursive helps improve literacy; verbal, reading, and writing) proficiency. That is scientific fact. How can one be so proSTEM and anti-science at the same time??

Could you post some links to some of this research that learning cursive, specifically, helps improve literacy and verbal proficiency? Not handwriting in general - specifically cursive. For children without particular special needs.

Yes, please because all I have is anecdata that shows the opposite: two highly literate kids who can't write English cursive.

Sure here you both go.

The first is a chapter from a textbook on writing developmental theory. I was above to find a link to pdf version of the chapter which is listed directly below it:

http://sk.sagepub.com/reference/hdbk_writingdev/n20.xml

https://schools.utah.gov/file/8e185248-724f-4c01-a9a3-15d7442a10e8

Here is a NYT article covering similar material:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/science/whats-lost-as-handwriting-fades.html

[Anonymous]

OK, I am the PP who gets excited when she sees her daughter's gorgeous handwriting and feels badly for those who will never experience it. I had no idea that she is getting even more benefits from this skill! After reading some of the articles posted on this thread, it makes me even happier that we spent the $$ on Catholic school, where she learned it and is expected to write homework and other assignments ONLY in cursive. Wow..so happy...so happy!!!

[Anonymous]

I enjoy writing notes in cursive. I find it very soothing - cathartic almost!

My kids use cursive also. Great for developing fine motor skills and yes, they find it significantly faster than printing for note taking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It makes no sense, you cannot be adept at science unless you are highly literate, learning cursive helps improve literacy; verbal, reading, and writing) proficiency. That is scientific fact. How can one be so proSTEM and anti-science at the same time??

Could you post some links to some of this research that learning cursive, specifically, helps improve literacy and verbal proficiency? Not handwriting in general - specifically cursive. For children without particular special needs.

Yes, please because all I have is anecdata that shows the opposite: two highly literate kids who can't write English cursive.

Sure here you both go.

The first is a chapter from a textbook on writing developmental theory. I was above to find a link to pdf version of the chapter which is listed directly below it:

http://sk.sagepub.com/reference/hdbk_writingdev/n20.xml

https://schools.utah.gov/file/8e185248-724f-4c01-a9a3-15d7442a10e8

Here is a NYT article covering similar material:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/science/whats-lost-as-handwriting-fades.html

Those are are about handwriting, not specifically about cursive. Handwriting includes printing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I am the PP who gets excited when she sees her daughter's gorgeous handwriting and feels badly for those who will never experience it. I had no idea that she is getting even more benefits from this skill! After reading some of the articles posted on this thread, it makes me even happier that we spent the $$ on Catholic school, where she learned it and is expected to write homework and other assignments ONLY in cursive. Wow..so happy...so happy!!!

The ones that don't say anything about cursive?