Why has 270 been horrific in the mornings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think widening 270 all around is the way to go. I do agree the bottlenecks need to be addressed. But long term planning needs to be increased mass transit options and incentives for people to use them. That means multiple agencies working together on a long term solution.

Why are there no express MARC trains from Frederick? Why couldn't there be an express option from Frederick-->Rockville.

Why are there no express metro trains? Sync the schedule with the express Marc arriving from Frederick. Run an express metro to Bethesda. At Bethesda, you can catch an express to Metro Center, Tyson's or Silver Spring.

Incentivize HOAs to provide shuttles to the metro during rush hour. Give a tax break on the community land that the HOAs own if they offer a shuttle.

Encourage businesses to offer telecommunting options to employees through tax incentives.

Build a shared federal work facility in the Frederick area so that if you work for the gov't, that can become your office. No need to build separate facilities for each department.

There are no metro trains anywhere, because there's no express track on which to run them. Metro planners, when the system was conceived, only built two tracks. A third track would make live infinitely easier all around - could be used for repairs, express trains, etc. But it doesn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That article does nothing to address bottlenecks. It's talking about induced demand. I fully understand what induced demand is, if you make the commute easier then more people will choose to live further out where it's cheaper which will fill up the roads. Fixing bottlenecks makes sense even if you don't agree that widening the road elsewhere should be done. While induced demand may very well be real, it's also true that if all of 270 was 2 lanes each way that it would be much worse than it is today. There is an equilibrium where extra lanes do no good and fixing a bottleneck where six lanes on each side drops to 2 would do a lot to help. Expanding roads where it's already 12 lanes across to 14 would do nothing to help.

That's not true at all. If 270 hadn't been widened, people wouldn't have made decades of decisions based on the existence of a wide 270. They would have made different decisions. Land use and travel patterns would all have been different.

Not to mention that, in places where roads have been reduced, there has been no traffic armageddon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are no metro trains anywhere, because there's no express track on which to run them. Metro planners, when the system was conceived, only built two tracks. A third track would make live infinitely easier all around - could be used for repairs, express trains, etc. But it doesn't exist.

And the jurisdictions that fund Metro are reluctant to fund even the existing system appropriately, let alone pay for an expanded system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That article does nothing to address bottlenecks. It's talking about induced demand. I fully understand what induced demand is, if you make the commute easier then more people will choose to live further out where it's cheaper which will fill up the roads. Fixing bottlenecks makes sense even if you don't agree that widening the road elsewhere should be done. While induced demand may very well be real, it's also true that if all of 270 was 2 lanes each way that it would be much worse than it is today. There is an equilibrium where extra lanes do no good and fixing a bottleneck where six lanes on each side drops to 2 would do a lot to help. Expanding roads where it's already 12 lanes across to 14 would do nothing to help.

That's not true at all. If 270 hadn't been widened, people wouldn't have made decades of decisions based on the existence of a wide 270. They would have made different decisions. Land use and travel patterns would all have been different.

Not to mention that, in places where roads have been reduced, there has been no traffic armageddon.

Okay so let's reduce 270 from 12 lanes to 0 lanes. We would eliminate traffic jams right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are no metro trains anywhere, because there's no express track on which to run them. Metro planners, when the system was conceived, only built two tracks. A third track would make live infinitely easier all around - could be used for repairs, express trains, etc. But it doesn't exist.

And the jurisdictions that fund Metro are reluctant to fund even the existing system appropriately, let alone pay for an expanded system.

But maybe that is part of regional long term mass transit planning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That article does nothing to address bottlenecks. It's talking about induced demand. I fully understand what induced demand is, if you make the commute easier then more people will choose to live further out where it's cheaper which will fill up the roads. Fixing bottlenecks makes sense even if you don't agree that widening the road elsewhere should be done. While induced demand may very well be real, it's also true that if all of 270 was 2 lanes each way that it would be much worse than it is today. There is an equilibrium where extra lanes do no good and fixing a bottleneck where six lanes on each side drops to 2 would do a lot to help. Expanding roads where it's already 12 lanes across to 14 would do nothing to help.

That's not true at all. If 270 hadn't been widened, people wouldn't have made decades of decisions based on the existence of a wide 270. They would have made different decisions. Land use and travel patterns would all have been different.

Not to mention that, in places where roads have been reduced, there has been no traffic armageddon.

+1. This is pretty much the definition of induced demand.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you live in MoCo, then I'd recommend voting against Elrich for County Exec. His solution to 270 is to ignore it or add in BRT (buses), which doesn't work well given how spread out things are up-county. Ficker lives in Boyds, and Floreen seems to have at least some grasp on the need for more roads.

. Yes a 16 lane road is a solution ...for a few years until we need 20 lanes. If you can't carpool or use public transportation or live bear your job you need to plan to sit in traffic.

The last time 270 was widened was in the late 1980's. It's time for another expansion.

Expanding 270 where it’s already wide doesn’t help the bottleneck as it still goes down to two lanes north towards Frederick. If they’re going to expand 270 then they need to widen the lanes up north not where it is already wide. Common sense

+1 widen the bottlenecks and the narrowest parts. How in the world will widening the widest part of the road help at all?

To the person from NOVA - I used to live in NOVA and unless you’re confusing the American Legion Bridge, which always has horrible traffic with 270, you just making stuff up. I-270 compared to I-66 is night and day. Yes 270 has a lot of traffic but 66 might as well have stop lights on it. It’s so much worse in NoVA.

To all the people in Clarksburg and Frederick, look I get it, you wanted a new build. When you picked that location for the newer cheaper house while working in MoCo, NoVA, or DC you knew what you were signing up for. Move closer if you want an easier commute. For 500k you can get a fine, if smaller and older house in MoCo and 350k can get you a townhouse. No sympathy for someone that signed up for that commute. I didn’t complain about the drive on 66 when I lived in NoVA because I chose to live there.

But quality of life living around DC/Bethesda people drastically drops and the use of anxiety medication increases. So that is not an option. It's not about a bigger house it's about nicer people.

That’s just hyperbole and if you don’t want Bethesda you can just live in a different location like Rockville, Kentlands, Potomac, Silver Spring, etc. There are plenty of down to earth places you can pick. Maybe the house has nothing to do with it for you (it’s the culture) but for many people iit is 100% housing.

I don't know anybody that moved for housing. Most people don't want congestion and rude people. ... Potomac, SS, Takoma Park... still the same. Kentlands maybe but the houses are on top of each other and not everybody likes fake walkability, many want to walk in the woods, trees, streams, etc.

rockville is fine but if you want to go for a hike, you need to drive for 20 - 30 minutes.

PP - I notice that you don't mention PG county as a possibility. Why is that?

Because my mom's old age home is in Moco.

I don't know PG as well (except College park... but even that has changed since I went there), my H grew up in Oxon Hill, but he did not like it there.... ... do you care to share areas that have a Rivers to kayak, mountains to hike, and lots of green space.

I am pretty certain the people are not obnoxious as Bethesdians.

I'm not the PP you replied to about PG county. I'm the PP that listed all the other locations in MoCo as well as replied about the lanes and NoVA.

Anyway, I don't get it. Why would you base where you live on rivers to kayak, moutains to hike, etc? To me, those are activities you do in your spare time. You, your spouse, and eventually your kids are driving to work every single day. If I have to drive 30 minutes to get some place, I'd rather it be the river on Saturday than have an hour drive five days a week.

We have way more spare time than you do.

I work 7-3:30, home by 4 and I do those things nightly. You may want to rethink how you think about work being your life and life being your "spare time".

We are home by 8 or 9 and ready for bed, nice and emotionally connected to nature.

If your commute is half an hour, why are you in a thread about horrible traffic on 270? You're obviously going full speed OR you live close to work. This makes no sense to me. I don't need to "live near the mountains", whatever that even means. I grew up living in the mountains and woods. It's not as great as you make it out to be.

Because Maryland needs more jobs in Gaithersbur/Clarksburg/Frederick. Hogan is a disaster when it comes to bringing business to Maryland. We don't need bigger roads. We need jobs that are not in DC and down county.

It's nice to have Biotech companies in Gaithersburg, but Maryland needs job growth (stalled under Hogan) and they need to be upcounty.

I'm not saying live in Johnstown, PA or Altoona, PA ... but the communities up county are much nicer than the ones down county. The problem is not old houses or small roads... the problem is jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Because Maryland needs more jobs in Gaithersbur/Clarksburg/Frederick. Hogan is a disaster when it comes to bringing business to Maryland. We don't need bigger roads. We need jobs that are not in DC and down county.

It's nice to have Biotech companies in Gaithersburg, but Maryland needs job growth (stalled under Hogan) and they need to be upcounty.

I'm not saying live in Johnstown, PA or Altoona, PA ... but the communities up county are much nicer than the ones down county. The problem is not old houses or small roads... the problem is jobs.

What do you base this opinion on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That article does nothing to address bottlenecks. It's talking about induced demand. I fully understand what induced demand is, if you make the commute easier then more people will choose to live further out where it's cheaper which will fill up the roads. Fixing bottlenecks makes sense even if you don't agree that widening the road elsewhere should be done. While induced demand may very well be real, it's also true that if all of 270 was 2 lanes each way that it would be much worse than it is today. There is an equilibrium where extra lanes do no good and fixing a bottleneck where six lanes on each side drops to 2 would do a lot to help. Expanding roads where it's already 12 lanes across to 14 would do nothing to help.

That's not true at all. If 270 hadn't been widened, people wouldn't have made decades of decisions based on the existence of a wide 270. They would have made different decisions. Land use and travel patterns would all have been different.

Not to mention that, in places where roads have been reduced, there has been no traffic armageddon.

Okay so let's reduce 270 from 12 lanes to 0 lanes. We would eliminate traffic jams right?

How about we attract companies to Frederick .... then 0 lanes would be fine. That would stop all the DC bikers in their racing gear from clogging the roads on the weekends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because Maryland needs more jobs in Gaithersbur/Clarksburg/Frederick. Hogan is a disaster when it comes to bringing business to Maryland. We don't need bigger roads. We need jobs that are not in DC and down county.

It's nice to have Biotech companies in Gaithersburg, but Maryland needs job growth (stalled under Hogan) and they need to be upcounty.

I'm not saying live in Johnstown, PA or Altoona, PA ... but the communities up county are much nicer than the ones down county. The problem is not old houses or small roads... the problem is jobs.

What do you base this opinion on?

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

People are nicer, they are not as stressed, they don't shame kids for going to Frostburg or WVU or even a trade school. It's a much healthier atmosphere fro children and families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That article does nothing to address bottlenecks. It's talking about induced demand. I fully understand what induced demand is, if you make the commute easier then more people will choose to live further out where it's cheaper which will fill up the roads. Fixing bottlenecks makes sense even if you don't agree that widening the road elsewhere should be done. While induced demand may very well be real, it's also true that if all of 270 was 2 lanes each way that it would be much worse than it is today. There is an equilibrium where extra lanes do no good and fixing a bottleneck where six lanes on each side drops to 2 would do a lot to help. Expanding roads where it's already 12 lanes across to 14 would do nothing to help.

That's not true at all. If 270 hadn't been widened, people wouldn't have made decades of decisions based on the existence of a wide 270. They would have made different decisions. Land use and travel patterns would all have been different.

Not to mention that, in places where roads have been reduced, there has been no traffic armageddon.

Okay so let's reduce 270 from 12 lanes to 0 lanes. We would eliminate traffic jams right?

San Francisco reduced the Embarcadero to 0 lanes in 1991. What happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because Maryland needs more jobs in Gaithersbur/Clarksburg/Frederick. Hogan is a disaster when it comes to bringing business to Maryland. We don't need bigger roads. We need jobs that are not in DC and down county.

It's nice to have Biotech companies in Gaithersburg, but Maryland needs job growth (stalled under Hogan) and they need to be upcounty.

I'm not saying live in Johnstown, PA or Altoona, PA ... but the communities up county are much nicer than the ones down county. The problem is not old houses or small roads... the problem is jobs.

What do you base this opinion on?

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

People are nicer, they are not as stressed, they don't shame kids for going to Frostburg or WVU or even a trade school. It's a much healthier atmosphere fro children and families.

OK, the communities are nicer because you like them better.

But different people, who are not you, have different preferences, which might be different from yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because Maryland needs more jobs in Gaithersbur/Clarksburg/Frederick. Hogan is a disaster when it comes to bringing business to Maryland. We don't need bigger roads. We need jobs that are not in DC and down county.

It's nice to have Biotech companies in Gaithersburg, but Maryland needs job growth (stalled under Hogan) and they need to be upcounty.

I'm not saying live in Johnstown, PA or Altoona, PA ... but the communities up county are much nicer than the ones down county. The problem is not old houses or small roads... the problem is jobs.

What do you base this opinion on?

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

People are nicer, they are not as stressed, they don't shame kids for going to Frostburg or WVU or even a trade school. It's a much healthier atmosphere fro children and families.

We exist in Bethesda, Rockville, and Potomac as well. I have one that started at MC and transferred to Frostburg and one that graduated from Salisbury. Both kids were all around solid B- HS students at a W school. No APs and SAT scores under 1200. Both kids are also very happily employed today. One works as an SWE for Amazon and the other is an OT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because Maryland needs more jobs in Gaithersbur/Clarksburg/Frederick. Hogan is a disaster when it comes to bringing business to Maryland. We don't need bigger roads. We need jobs that are not in DC and down county.

It's nice to have Biotech companies in Gaithersburg, but Maryland needs job growth (stalled under Hogan) and they need to be upcounty.

I'm not saying live in Johnstown, PA or Altoona, PA ... but the communities up county are much nicer than the ones down county. The problem is not old houses or small roads... the problem is jobs.

What do you base this opinion on?

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

People are nicer, they are not as stressed, they don't shame kids for going to Frostburg or WVU or even a trade school. It's a much healthier atmosphere fro children and families.

OK, the communities are nicer because you like them better.

But different people, who are not you, have different preferences, which might be different from yours.

Oh it's so hard to explain things to people in a bubble and they keep breathing their own air.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because Maryland needs more jobs in Gaithersbur/Clarksburg/Frederick. Hogan is a disaster when it comes to bringing business to Maryland. We don't need bigger roads. We need jobs that are not in DC and down county.

It's nice to have Biotech companies in Gaithersburg, but Maryland needs job growth (stalled under Hogan) and they need to be upcounty.

I'm not saying live in Johnstown, PA or Altoona, PA ... but the communities up county are much nicer than the ones down county. The problem is not old houses or small roads... the problem is jobs.

What do you base this opinion on?

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

People are nicer, they are not as stressed, they don't shame kids for going to Frostburg or WVU or even a trade school. It's a much healthier atmosphere fro children and families.

We exist in Bethesda, Rockville, and Potomac as well. I have one that started at MC and transferred to Frostburg and one that graduated from Salisbury. Both kids were all around solid B- HS students at a W school. No APs and SAT scores under 1200. Both kids are also very happily employed today. One works as an SWE for Amazon and the other is an OT.

Exactly, but don't pretend your kids did not feel like they were lesser than their friends.