Teacher who doesn’t offer retakes

[Anonymous]

I don't have an issue with retakes in ES as a way to help towards mastery. But at some point it has to stop and MS seems the right time. Our MS had being allowing retakes but in this year's BTS night a couple teachers told us they are no longer doing that. They felt too many kids were gaming the system -- not putting any effort into preparing for the first test, using that to learn what would be on it, and then acing the 2nd test. Once they stopped offering retakes the grades on the 1st test went way up since the kids got the message that they actually did have to study for that test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a third grade teacher and I don’t offer retakes.

I'm betting you are over 50, OP.

The idea of a rigid "sink or swim" approach to childhood education is very Old School. Is the goal to evaluate performance or to gain mastery of a concept or idea?
If your goal is mastery, then retake-retake-retake UNTIL mastery is the name of the game. If it's just to tick the Pass/Fail box and give a gold star to the kids who got it on the first go (either by studying or b/c they didn't need to!) then that is a completely different system.

And what about the kids who do all their homework, listen carefully in class, ask questions when they don't understand something, study hard for exams and basically take personal responsibility for themselves and their own learning... what are they learning? Aside from not to bother.

This is just yet another step in the direction of "a trophy for everyone" which anyone who has been paying attention can easily see has NOT been working out well for the youth of today.

My guess is you don't have multiple kids with differing strengths and abilities.
My son works *so* hard in school. He does his homework every day, on time. He also does extra work with me or DH. He listens in class, and his teachers report he participates and asks good questions. He studies hard all the time. He pretty much never forgets his homework, or loses assignments, or anything like that. He is absolutely the paragon of taking personal responsibility for himself and his learning.
And yet.... he doesn't get As on the first try. He works hard for Bs, and when he pulls out an A it's usually because he took advantage of relearning and retake opportunities.

Meanwhile, my daughter has very different strengths. School is easy for her and things come quickly to her. She doesn't work hard in school, rushes through her homework, yet still gets basically everything right. As are trivial. Her A on the first try on her tests aren't because she has some better work ethic or better personal responsibility.

I couldn't care less about DS getting a trophy or about DD getting the initial gold star. I want both my kids to learn and if it takes my son a little longer to learn things, than that's *way* more important to me than having my daughter think she's some uber-responsible kid just because she gets an A on the first try.

When do you think it would be reasonable for your son to get the Bs he deserves? Or you think he should continue getting As throughout high school and college? What about in the workplace? Should he be promoted and given opportunities over better candidates just because he's a nice kid who works hard? Surely it needs to end somewhere, right? (or not?) I'm curious where you think this ends.

I was really just responding to the false notion that an A somehow indicates that the child was responsible and worked hard and a lower grade indicates the opposite. In my experience - both as a student and a parent - there are hardworking kids getting As and Bs and even Cs, and there are kids sailing through with As and very little work. (Yes, those kids should be more appropriately challenged!)

I'm perfectly happy with my son getting the Bs "he deserves" right now. I'm far less focused on grades than I am on making sure both my kids are learning things. I see grades as a communication tool, not an end goal. If he's getting Bs and Cs, then I know the teacher and I have things to work on. If he's getting As on the 2nd try, then again - I know we have something to work on. Either way doesn't really matter to me.

As for my son in the workplace - in my experience the nice person who works hard is generally far more highly valued than the know it all who doesn't think they have to do the work as part of the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former teacher here.... If the goal is actually to help students LEARN the material, retakes are a good thing. If the goal is to get a grade to put in the grade book, retakes are not given.

Teachers have posted in this thread that retakes don't actually help students learn the material.

Actually, they've posted the opposite. Retakes don't help the student learn the material sooner, but they help them learn the material eventually. As a society, we need to determine if the goal of school is to educate kids on subjects, or to grade/rank/compare kids for college. It's very difficult to merge the two.

+1
Do we care if children master the material or do we care if we sort out the highest and lowest students?
Or maybe there should be dual track grading policies. In honors and AP classes, no retakes. The purpose of grades is to rank and sort for college admission.
In on grade and remedial classes, retakes are fine. Those kids probably aren't going to HYP anyway, so let's make sure they actually learn the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is talking about 4th grade people. Grades don't matter. Mastery does.

No retakes at our MCPS. Make a mistake, it counts as a semester grade (one paper) and that's your grade and too bad. (so much for an IEP where the teacher should have caught that mistake so child could have fixed it)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a third grade teacher and I don’t offer retakes.

I'm betting you are over 50, OP.

The idea of a rigid "sink or swim" approach to childhood education is very Old School. Is the goal to evaluate performance or to gain mastery of a concept or idea?
If your goal is mastery, then retake-retake-retake UNTIL mastery is the name of the game. If it's just to tick the Pass/Fail box and give a gold star to the kids who got it on the first go (either by studying or b/c they didn't need to!) then that is a completely different system.

And what about the kids who do all their homework, listen carefully in class, ask questions when they don't understand something, study hard for exams and basically take personal responsibility for themselves and their own learning... what are they learning? Aside from not to bother.

This is just yet another step in the direction of "a trophy for everyone" which anyone who has been paying attention can easily see has NOT been working out well for the youth of today.

My guess is you don't have multiple kids with differing strengths and abilities.
My son works *so* hard in school. He does his homework every day, on time. He also does extra work with me or DH. He listens in class, and his teachers report he participates and asks good questions. He studies hard all the time. He pretty much never forgets his homework, or loses assignments, or anything like that. He is absolutely the paragon of taking personal responsibility for himself and his learning.
And yet.... he doesn't get As on the first try. He works hard for Bs, and when he pulls out an A it's usually because he took advantage of relearning and retake opportunities.

Meanwhile, my daughter has very different strengths. School is easy for her and things come quickly to her. She doesn't work hard in school, rushes through her homework, yet still gets basically everything right. As are trivial. Her A on the first try on her tests aren't because she has some better work ethic or better personal responsibility.

I couldn't care less about DS getting a trophy or about DD getting the initial gold star. I want both my kids to learn and if it takes my son a little longer to learn things, than that's *way* more important to me than having my daughter think she's some uber-responsible kid just because she gets an A on the first try.

When do you think it would be reasonable for your son to get the Bs he deserves? Or you think he should continue getting As throughout high school and college? What about in the workplace? Should he be promoted and given opportunities over better candidates just because he's a nice kid who works hard? Surely it needs to end somewhere, right? (or not?) I'm curious where you think this ends.

I was really just responding to the false notion that an A somehow indicates that the child was responsible and worked hard and a lower grade indicates the opposite. In my experience - both as a student and a parent - there are hardworking kids getting As and Bs and even Cs, and there are kids sailing through with As and very little work. (Yes, those kids should be more appropriately challenged!)

I'm perfectly happy with my son getting the Bs "he deserves" right now. I'm far less focused on grades than I am on making sure both my kids are learning things. I see grades as a communication tool, not an end goal. If he's getting Bs and Cs, then I know the teacher and I have things to work on. If he's getting As on the 2nd try, then again - I know we have something to work on. Either way doesn't really matter to me.

As for my son in the workplace - in my experience the nice person who works hard is generally far more highly valued than the know it all who doesn't think they have to do the work as part of the team.[/quote]

I SO agree with this. And, moreover, let's not pretend the ridiculousness of the schools (their rules, many of which are arbitrary, and herding them around like sheep, and rote memorization) has anything whatsoever to do with success in the work place. It doesn't.

[Anonymous]

The closest thing my kids have had is my daughter's HS calculus teacher would allow kids who got a D or F to redo the problems they missed for 1/2 credit back. I know there were lots of issues that year because parents of B & C students were pissed their kids didn't have the same option. I think the teacher may have started adding C students into the mix but I don't remember exactly.

Heck, my son has a teacher this year in HS who had the students all sign a paper letting them know that if they missed class on test day, their make up test would be more difficult and made up of short answer questions and an essay question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former teacher here.... If the goal is actually to help students LEARN the material, retakes are a good thing. If the goal is to get a grade to put in the grade book, retakes are not given.

Teachers have posted in this thread that retakes don't actually help students learn the material.

Actually, they've posted the opposite. Retakes don't help the student learn the material sooner, but they help them learn the material eventually. As a society, we need to determine if the goal of school is to educate kids on subjects, or to grade/rank/compare kids for college. It's very difficult to merge the two.

Or the teacher could assess the student throughout the lesson as to check if the material was resonating. If your teacher is not doing that, and only giving one big test, that is a problem, if learning and mastery is the goal.

[Anonymous]

IMO part of a high school education is to prepare students for college where retakes aren't given. I cannot imagine being a college professor these days with students showing up asking for retakes.

[Anonymous]

I have never heard of retakes. I attended private school. My oldest is in MS and has been in private since PreK. No retakes have ever been offered. She is required to correct all errors on homework, quizzes and tests. She is an "A" student, but works really hard for those grades. How do HS and colleges know who was given multiple times to earn a grade vs. only once? I wonder why some areas offer this and some don't. It should be a standard policy in public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are ages 10 to 19. I've experienced one teacher giving a retake to the whole class once after reteaching the material.

Also my daughter's friend was offered retakes the week after her mom passed away. The school and her teachers all worked with her due to her circumstances.

Retakes should not be commonplace. If they are repeatedly necessary for the class, there is a problem with the teacher. And a student requesting them often needs to learn better study methods.

Or that the students aren't taking the work seriously. Imagine that.

The whole class? I think not. If a particular students is requesting then often, it's a problem with that student as already mentioned above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a third grade teacher and I don’t offer retakes.

I'm betting you are over 50, OP.

The idea of a rigid "sink or swim" approach to childhood education is very Old School.

No, let's have some students tread water until they eventually sink, while those who can swim end up doing nothing but sitting poolside bored. The world needs ditch diggers too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a third grade teacher and I don’t offer retakes.

I'm betting you are over 50, OP.

The idea of a rigid "sink or swim" approach to childhood education is very Old School.

No, let's have some students tread water until they eventually sink, while those who can swim end up doing nothing but sitting poolside bored. The world needs ditch diggers too

All students must be college and career ready whether they want to be or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always thought retake culture was a scam in awful schools to inflate grades and keep annoying parents and kids off schools’ backs.

But then an elite local private Dean said he believes in retakes, so idk what to believe anymore.

Because the dean in this “elite private” doesn’t have to worry sbout annoying parents? Ha!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach middle school math, and I love the effect of retakes. Students actually care about their grades now. Before retakes, a kid would fail a test, trash it, and walk out of the room and forget about it.

Now, they fail the test, and immediately ask what they did wrong, if they can have extra practice on the topic, and what I suggest they do to prepare for the retake. My after school sessions are packed with kids trying to solidify their learning. It's not free points--they have to do a remediation assignment, and retake a second version of a full length test after school. They are learning. My end of year state scores are higher than before, study habits are improving, and kids are more engaged.

Because it’s all about those end of year state scores. Here we go again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard of retakes. I attended private school. My oldest is in MS and has been in private since PreK. No retakes have ever been offered. She is required to correct all errors on homework, quizzes and tests. She is an "A" student, but works really hard for those grades. How do HS and colleges know who was given multiple times to earn a grade vs. only once? I wonder why some areas offer this and some don't. It should be a standard policy in public schools.

People hear this and think it is something other than what it is. At our middle school, you can only have a do-over if you get a D, and that will never get you to an A. My DC never got a re-take. Also, no re-takes at all on classes that count for high school credit. And colleges don't care about middle school grades.

Don't worry. Your Private school A student is not at a disadvantage because a public school D student has a second chance to get a C.