Standing room only on the school bus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but the programs themselves (and the schools in general) could be so much better without the busing. It is extremely expensive, and school districts have finite budgets.

The vast majority of busing is busing students to their home schools. Busing to special programs is only a very small component of the cost.

Right, my initial comment was not limited to special programs. There is no question that busing over 100,000 students to their home schools on a daily basis is extremely expensive for the district. That money has to come from somewhere.

So you are advocating getting rid of all bussing and having maybe 20? 40? extra cars heading to each school per bus each day to get the kids there. Its not like eliminating bussing has no negative consequences.

Lots of private schools don’t offer buses, yet they seem to make drop off and pick up work just fine. What happened to good old fashioned car pools, organized by parents? Instead, many of the posters here seem to prefer to scream at some poor person in a bus depot if there is a short term hiccup rather than take responsibility for their family’s transportation needs.

And what are working parents supposed to do? Some people don't have time to pick up a bunch of kids and bring them to school.

OK, but why is that the county’s problem? Maybe working parents need to organize car pools, pay for bus pick up, etc. This is what I’m talking about, so many people just seem to throw their hands up in the air and expect the principal, the bus depot, or anyone else to solve their dilemmas. Schools exist to educate, not provide free daycare for parents.

My my, aren't we self-righteous. I have to assume you're a SAHP and likely also an Ayn Rand fan. Every man, women, and child for him/herself, right? Screw everyone else.

You know what? Let's just cut any/all government programs you might benefit from because why should anyone help you? We're not here for you; we're here for ourselves.

How dramatic. There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees the right to school bus service. I would think that ALL parents, both working and stay at home, would prefer for limited school budgets to be spent on educating their children, not on transporting them from Point A to B. Several perfectly workable alternatives have been proposed, including increased car pooling and paid busing, that not only would solve the overcrowding issues raised by the OP, but also would improve the quality of our schools.

Wait, so we're only entitled to what's clearly enumerated in the Constitution?

My problem isn't with the idea of reducing bussing paid by the district. If some parents want to organize car pools or pay for bussing, that's fine. My issue is with your self-righteous tone that clearly denigrates working parents and equates free bussing with daycare. If you stopped lording yourself over others, you'll stop coming off as such a jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bussing could change to be fee for service. Families would sign up and pay for an entire semester. This would also solve the planning problem. They already start giving kids MCPS IDs in middle school, they could just give them a barcode sticker to scan if they purchase the pass. Families that couldn't afford it would get a reduced fee or free pass depending on income level.

This would cover the costs, provide better planning and free up millions spent on free transportation to be better spent on adding teachers and aides to the classroom.

Now this is a good idea.

The estimated cost of transportation in the fiscal year 2018 operating budget is $42,090,090. So let's say $42 million.

They say that they transport 103,000 students every day - I think that's from 2016-17, but I don't know if it would have gone up or down. So let's say 100,000.

Now, how much do you want to charge? To cover the whole cost, it would be $420 per kid per year. Are you ok with that?

But 35.1% of students last year qualified for free or reduced meals. Let's assume that kids who qualify for free or reduced meals are proportionately represented among the 100,000 kids who get bused. So it would only be 65,000 students who would pay. Now to cover the whole cost, it would be $646 per kid per year. Are you ok with that?

Also, what kind of enforcement mechanism are you thinking of? Who is going to collect and process the money? Who is going to check that a kid has been paid for? What if the kid hasn't been paid for and tries to get on the bus? What about kids in special education?

Thanks for calculating. $650 per year for round trip daily transportation seems incredibly reasonable to me. You certainly couldn’t ride the metro for that price! I believe the PP suggested a bar code system, but I suppose a metro style fare card could also work. After all, they don’t let you ride public buses unless you prove you have paid, so it shouldn’t be too hard to enforce. Regarding special programs busing, that could either be charged separately, or included in the daily pass for those who subscribe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How dramatic. There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees the right to school bus service. I would think that ALL parents, both working and stay at home, would prefer for limited school budgets to be spent on educating their children, not on transporting them from Point A to B. Several perfectly workable alternatives have been proposed, including increased car pooling and paid busing, that not only would solve the overcrowding issues raised by the OP, but also would improve the quality of our schools.

Point B is school. The kid has to be at school for the kid to be educated at school.

Also, school traffic (parents driving their kids to school) is already 10-14% of the traffic on the roads. Now imagine getting rid of mass transit (i.e., school buses)...

But see, PP doesn't care about that. PP only cares about denigrating those lazy, entitled parents who expect public transportation for their kids to get to the school they're legally required to be at. PP can't understand why those lazy parents can't just organize their own carpools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bussing could change to be fee for service. Families would sign up and pay for an entire semester. This would also solve the planning problem. They already start giving kids MCPS IDs in middle school, they could just give them a barcode sticker to scan if they purchase the pass. Families that couldn't afford it would get a reduced fee or free pass depending on income level.

This would cover the costs, provide better planning and free up millions spent on free transportation to be better spent on adding teachers and aides to the classroom.

Now this is a good idea.

The estimated cost of transportation in the fiscal year 2018 operating budget is $42,090,090. So let's say $42 million.

They say that they transport 103,000 students every day - I think that's from 2016-17, but I don't know if it would have gone up or down. So let's say 100,000.

Now, how much do you want to charge? To cover the whole cost, it would be $420 per kid per year. Are you ok with that?

But 35.1% of students last year qualified for free or reduced meals. Let's assume that kids who qualify for free or reduced meals are proportionately represented among the 100,000 kids who get bused. So it would only be 65,000 students who would pay. Now to cover the whole cost, it would be $646 per kid per year. Are you ok with that?

Also, what kind of enforcement mechanism are you thinking of? Who is going to collect and process the money? Who is going to check that a kid has been paid for? What if the kid hasn't been paid for and tries to get on the bus? What about kids in special education?

Thanks for calculating. $650 per year for round trip daily transportation seems incredibly reasonable to me. You certainly couldn’t ride the metro for that price! I believe the PP suggested a bar code system, but I suppose a metro style fare card could also work. After all, they don’t let you ride public buses unless you prove you have paid, so it shouldn’t be too hard to enforce. Regarding special programs busing, that could either be charged separately, or included in the daily pass for those who subscribe.

Wow, check your privilege. Do you know how many people can't afford $650 per kid? You say they could pay a reduced fee, but I think you're vastly underestimating the number of families who would need a reduced fee.

The privilege on DCUM is really coming out on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How dramatic. There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees the right to school bus service. I would think that ALL parents, both working and stay at home, would prefer for limited school budgets to be spent on educating their children, not on transporting them from Point A to B. Several perfectly workable alternatives have been proposed, including increased car pooling and paid busing, that not only would solve the overcrowding issues raised by the OP, but also would improve the quality of our schools.

Point B is school. The kid has to be at school for the kid to be educated at school.

Also, school traffic (parents driving their kids to school) is already 10-14% of the traffic on the roads. Now imagine getting rid of mass transit (i.e., school buses)...

But see, PP doesn't care about that. PP only cares about denigrating those lazy, entitled parents who expect public transportation for their kids to get to the school they're legally required to be at. PP can't understand why those lazy parents can't just organize their own carpools.

Not at all. I do think the environmental and traffic concerns are a fair point, but that doesn’t explain why paid busing couldn’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for calculating. $650 per year for round trip daily transportation seems incredibly reasonable to me. You certainly couldn’t ride the metro for that price! I believe the PP suggested a bar code system, but I suppose a metro style fare card could also work. After all, they don’t let you ride public buses unless you prove you have paid, so it shouldn’t be too hard to enforce. Regarding special programs busing, that could either be charged separately, or included in the daily pass for those who subscribe.

I'm happy that you're affluent. But we aren't all as affluent as you.

And yes, certainly, it is possible to enforce the payment by throwing kids off the buses that take them to school, if their parents haven't paid. Are you ok with that? I'm not.

[Anonymous]

57% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings. Even assuming MoCo is richer than the typical county in the US, you need to recognize how many people cannot pay $1300/year for 2 kids to ride the bus to school.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/budget-and-spending/2018/05/22/what-average-american-needs-in-emergency-savings/35175419/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, check your privilege. Do you know how many people can't afford $650 per kid? You say they could pay a reduced fee, but I think you're vastly underestimating the number of families who would need a reduced fee.

The privilege on DCUM is really coming out on this thread.

It's the annual It's Just Fine To Charge For School Buses Because I Could Afford It thread, right on schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for calculating. $650 per year for round trip daily transportation seems incredibly reasonable to me. You certainly couldn’t ride the metro for that price! I believe the PP suggested a bar code system, but I suppose a metro style fare card could also work. After all, they don’t let you ride public buses unless you prove you have paid, so it shouldn’t be too hard to enforce. Regarding special programs busing, that could either be charged separately, or included in the daily pass for those who subscribe.

I'm happy that you're affluent. But we aren't all as affluent as you.

And yes, certainly, it is possible to enforce the payment by throwing kids off the buses that take them to school, if their parents haven't paid. Are you ok with that? I'm not.

Again, it has been mentioned many times that the charges could be need based, meaning that a formula would be used to determine who has to pay. Just like school lunches. Why is that so wrong? The school lunch programs ensure that all children eat at school, regardless of their ability to pay, and a paid busing system could do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for calculating. $650 per year for round trip daily transportation seems incredibly reasonable to me. You certainly couldn’t ride the metro for that price! I believe the PP suggested a bar code system, but I suppose a metro style fare card could also work. After all, they don’t let you ride public buses unless you prove you have paid, so it shouldn’t be too hard to enforce. Regarding special programs busing, that could either be charged separately, or included in the daily pass for those who subscribe.

I'm happy that you're affluent. But we aren't all as affluent as you.

And yes, certainly, it is possible to enforce the payment by throwing kids off the buses that take them to school, if their parents haven't paid. Are you ok with that? I'm not.

Again, it has been mentioned many times that the charges could be need based, meaning that a formula would be used to determine who has to pay. Just like school lunches. Why is that so wrong? The school lunch programs ensure that all children eat at school, regardless of their ability to pay, and a paid busing system could do the same.

Are you not aware of all the problems kids who can't afford school lunch have been having across this country? They get their lunches thrown away, they're forced to clean up after other kids as "punishment" for not having lunch money, etc. etc.

But I'm sure those stories don't make their way into your bubble.

[Anonymous]

And why not have parents buy all of the books and supplies and chip in for heat/a/c..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but the programs themselves (and the schools in general) could be so much better without the busing. It is extremely expensive, and school districts have finite budgets.

The vast majority of busing is busing students to their home schools. Busing to special programs is only a very small component of the cost.

Right, my initial comment was not limited to special programs. There is no question that busing over 100,000 students to their home schools on a daily basis is extremely expensive for the district. That money has to come from somewhere.

So you are advocating getting rid of all bussing and having maybe 20? 40? extra cars heading to each school per bus each day to get the kids there. Its not like eliminating bussing has no negative consequences.

Lots of private schools don’t offer buses, yet they seem to make drop off and pick up work just fine. What happened to good old fashioned car pools, organized by parents? Instead, many of the posters here seem to prefer to scream at some poor person in a bus depot if there is a short term hiccup rather than take responsibility for their family’s transportation needs.

Our private school is required to have a certain amount of buses because more cars are dangerous, pollute the air and cause too much traffic in the neighborhoods near the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Again, it has been mentioned many times that the charges could be need based, meaning that a formula would be used to determine who has to pay. Just like school lunches. Why is that so wrong? The school lunch programs ensure that all children eat at school, regardless of their ability to pay, and a paid busing system could do the same.

Sure! And there should be tolls on the cars in which parents drive their children to school, too! Just like buses and school lunches. In fact, the tolls should be high, because we don't want to encourage more driving; we want to encourage parents (who can afford it) to pay the bus fees or to carpool. So if you think $650 per year is reasonable for a school bus, then the tolls need to be meaningfully higher than that. Let's say, $3.50 per vehicle per trip? $7 dollars per day, or around $1,260 per year? And your kid wouldn't be allowed into the school/into the car without proof of payment. How does that sound?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again, it has been mentioned many times that the charges could be need based, meaning that a formula would be used to determine who has to pay. Just like school lunches. Why is that so wrong? The school lunch programs ensure that all children eat at school, regardless of their ability to pay, and a paid busing system could do the same.

Sure! And there should be tolls on the cars in which parents drive their children to school, too! Just like buses and school lunches. In fact, the tolls should be high, because we don't want to encourage more driving; we want to encourage parents (who can afford it) to pay the bus fees or to carpool. So if you think $650 per year is reasonable for a school bus, then the tolls need to be meaningfully higher than that. Let's say, $3.50 per vehicle per trip? $7 dollars per day, or around $1,260 per year? And your kid wouldn't be allowed into the school/into the car without proof of payment. How does that sound?

No fee to drive your kid to school, obviously, just like there’s no charge to pack their lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again, it has been mentioned many times that the charges could be need based, meaning that a formula would be used to determine who has to pay. Just like school lunches. Why is that so wrong? The school lunch programs ensure that all children eat at school, regardless of their ability to pay, and a paid busing system could do the same.

Sure! And there should be tolls on the cars in which parents drive their children to school, too! Just like buses and school lunches. In fact, the tolls should be high, because we don't want to encourage more driving; we want to encourage parents (who can afford it) to pay the bus fees or to carpool. So if you think $650 per year is reasonable for a school bus, then the tolls need to be meaningfully higher than that. Let's say, $3.50 per vehicle per trip? $7 dollars per day, or around $1,260 per year? And your kid wouldn't be allowed into the school/into the car without proof of payment. How does that sound?

No fee to drive your kid to school, obviously, just like there’s no charge to pack their lunch.

What's obvious about it? Driving your kid to school has costs. Why shouldn't you pay them?