Rhee? A poll of your opinion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re parents west of the park. Maybe it's just a case of the cheerleaders being much louder than the critics (or the only cheerleaders being from this side of town). Or a situation where the critics opt out -- the people in my neighborhood who aren't happy with Rhee quietly head to Latin or move to MoCo, while a much louder/larger? group raves about the new Deal.

Parent west of the park here - I don't think its so much a matter of the cheerleaders being louder. At our school I think our parents feel they own the school and are the key drivers of its success. I don't feel like Rhee is that much of a factor when you have a large group of parents that are willing to figure out creative solutions when DCPS can't - those parents also bring $$$ to the mix. And many of these parents, myself included will be at Deal when it is time. When it comes to my experience I don't have a strong opinion about Rhee but after reading this thread totally get why folks are unhappy.

[Anonymous]

That makes sense. I've definitely seen the "own the school" mentality at the elementary level. Don't know whether it will work in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rhee may be (or may have been) willing to mess with the parents west of the park -- remember her early claim that DC would have a gifted program and it would be in Ward 8 because it's time for the commuting to go in the other direction? -- but Fenty isn't. Especially now that he's back in election mode. Schools that didn't ask for them (and wouldn't have spent the money that way) are getting new sports fields and playground equipment because those are quick, relatively cheap, highly visible improvements. And, hey, if you spraypaint your name on the astroturf, everyone will know who to thank.

Meanwhile lots of Ward 3 and other white DC residents seem to assume that the reason DCPS is failing is because it's full of poor black kids whose parents are illiterate drug users. They point to the fact that Ward 3 schools aren't failing as evidence that the fundamental problem isn't administrative. You just need the right parents/family structure to succeed. And when you don't have it, either you're doomed or KIPP is the solution. These folks don't see all AA families as dysfunctional, but in their experience, those who aren't will send their kids to charters or enroll in Ward 3 schools via the OOB process, so they can escape failing schools if only they try. Anybody who doesn't just isn't motivated. Or is embedded in a culture of poverty.

The flip side of this logic is that public schools will improve (in Adams Morgan, in Dupont Circle, on Capitol Hill) if only (and as soon as) white families opt back in to the system.

What depresses me most about DC educational politics is that there's enough segregation that we aren't all in the same boat and so we don't work together. The only hope I see wrt Rhee is that she's screw everything up so universally that we'll see more parents working together across racial, class, neighborhood divides. So far, though, divide and conquer has been the order of the day and I suspect it will remain so.

What's interesting about this post to me is that Rhee actually doesn't adhere to the families/communities make the schools mentality and explicitly says that schools must serve all children effectively, regardless of family support. This is one of her big pushback points with teachers at under-performing schools who say that they can't make headway with kids whose families are absent, who don't have basic necessities like food, clothes, and supervision; she says those are excuses and that schools must give those kids an opportunity to succeed.

I don't know enough to know whether she's making any headway here. But that is the philosophy she and the rest of the urban education reformers are steeped in.

[Anonymous]

Good point re Rhee! The juxtaposition of the two points of view is that (a) she won't address issues that interfere with education (nor will she work with communities to address their needs and priorities) and (b) a substantial group of DC voters won't hold her responsible for educational outcomes outside their own neighborhoods, blaming other communities for the failure to educate their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good point re Rhee! The juxtaposition of the two points of view is that (a) she won't address issues that interfere with education (nor will she work with communities to address their needs and priorities) and (b) a substantial group of DC voters won't hold her responsible for educational outcomes outside their own neighborhoods, blaming other communities for the failure to educate their kids.

17:17 here I don't agree with the part b. I think it is quite a leap to say that parents in the higher performing schools (who BTW are not all white) aren't interested in outcomes for schools outside their neighborhood. The problem is that we are completely exhausted from raising money, figuring out how to work around the central office, doing building projects and rallying other parents to make the school the best it can be. We aren't working this hard to support "extras" we are working hard to support things that DCPS should be covering. At our school our principal is quick to let us know about the challenges with the central office and most parents get that the adminstrative piece is fundamentally flawed. The reason why folks are complacent about Rhee (myself included) is because they would rather shell out $600 per year (or more) than pay for private school and have a strong say in what goes on at their school - that is the cost/benefit analysis folks perform in their head. To say we don't care is unfair, but its also unfair to expect we can lift all the boats.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, the substantial group of voters I was referring to certainly wasn't limited to public school parents in Ward 3. Same goes for private school parents -- basically, people whose kids will get decent schooling despite Rhee -- and for people for whom education isn't a voting issue (no kids, grown kids).

What I would like to see more of though is vocal criticism of the administration from Ward 3 public school parents. As insiders, you can testify and testify in ways that have credibility.

[Anonymous]

Why pin it on Ward 3? Ward 3 residents have been vociferous for decades and in total receive very little for their tax dollars as compared to other parts of the city?

This is an "all-in" situation where everyone has to work together!

[Anonymous]

In this case, Ward 3 is where most of the successful public schools are and there's no public discourse saying Rhee is making it harder for our schools. So one of two things is happening (or both) -- either Rhee exempts Ward 3 from the horrors she inflicts on other schools (in which case, I'm not pinning the problem on Ward 3 -- Rhee and Fenty are dividing and conquering by treating Ward 3 differently from other parts of the city) OR Ward 3 parents aren't speaking up about what they see happening -- they are quietly taking care of their own problems rather than fighting for systemic change.

For the record, I'm one of those high tax-paying Ward 3 residents myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rhee may be (or may have been) willing to mess with the parents west of the park -- remember her early claim that DC would have a gifted program and it would be in Ward 8 because it's time for the commuting to go in the other direction? -- but Fenty isn't. Especially now that he's back in election mode. Schools that didn't ask for them (and wouldn't have spent the money that way) are getting new sports fields and playground equipment because those are quick, relatively cheap, highly visible improvements. And, hey, if you spraypaint your name on the astroturf, everyone will know who to thank.

Meanwhile lots of Ward 3 and other white DC residents seem to assume that the reason DCPS is failing is because it's full of poor black kids whose parents are illiterate drug users. They point to the fact that Ward 3 schools aren't failing as evidence that the fundamental problem isn't administrative. You just need the right parents/family structure to succeed. And when you don't have it, either you're doomed or KIPP is the solution. These folks don't see all AA families as dysfunctional, but in their experience, those who aren't will send their kids to charters or enroll in Ward 3 schools via the OOB process, so they can escape failing schools if only they try. Anybody who doesn't just isn't motivated. Or is embedded in a culture of poverty.

The flip side of this logic is that public schools will improve (in Adams Morgan, in Dupont Circle, on Capitol Hill) if only (and as soon as) white families opt back in to the system.

What depresses me most about DC educational politics is that there's enough segregation that we aren't all in the same boat and so we don't work together. The only hope I see wrt Rhee is that she's screw everything up so universally that we'll see more parents working together across racial, class, neighborhood divides. So far, though, divide and conquer has been the order of the day and I suspect it will remain so.

What's interesting about this post to me is that Rhee actually doesn't adhere to the families/communities make the schools mentality and explicitly says that schools must serve all children effectively, regardless of family support. This is one of her big pushback points with teachers at under-performing schools who say that they can't make headway with kids whose families are absent, who don't have basic necessities like food, clothes, and supervision; she says those are excuses and that schools must give those kids an opportunity to succeed.

I don't know enough to know whether she's making any headway here. But that is the philosophy she and the rest of the urban education reformers are steeped in.

This discussion about the "other" schools outside Ward 3 is exactly why I like Rhee. I find the physical conditions and low expectations at non-Ward 3 schools absolutely abysmal and shocking. As a voter, I like Rhee because she is the first chancellor to ever acknowledge this publicly and her attitude -- "fire all those teachers who don't think they can teach to this population" -- is one I applaud.

For years, the excuse has been that the lower socio-economic status parts of DC have so many "other needs" that the kids in those neighborhoods can't learn. I think that is $#@#, and I applaud Rhee for speaking and acting publicly to dismiss teachers and administrators responsible for the abysmal performance in those schools.

For the last several years, I have regularly been at Coolidge High School on a weekly basis and three or four years ago, pre-Rhee, physical conditions there were so bad, I wouldn't send a dog to obedience class there. Rhee changed that and the school is in much better condition physically these days. A quick glance at NCLB data shows that kids 25/33% approx of students were scoring below basic in reading/math in 2007. Today those below basic numbers are closer to 10%.

So, as a long time resident of DC, whose parents left Capitol Hill because the schools were crappy 35 years ago, I say hallelujah to Rhee. Her approach is long overdue.

[Anonymous]

For the last several years, I have regularly been at Coolidge High School on a weekly basis and three or four years ago, pre-Rhee, physical conditions there were so bad, I wouldn't send a dog to obedience class there. Rhee changed that and the school is in much better condition physically these days.

Not to digress, but I'm also in Coolidge on a weekly basis, and it is disgusting! There has been a hole in one of the stairwells for several years now... that my DD and I have witnessed a rat running in and out of... And the girls' bathroom on the first floor is beyond gross: three stalls - two with what appeared to be fecal matter on the seats and/or out of order, and the 3d with water (likely dirty toilet water) all over the floor. No paper towels or soap. It was that way last spring AND just this past Saturday. Go to another girls room, you say?? Yeah, they are kept locked.

Can't see that it is any better than it was pre-Rhee. I am so happy that my DDs won't be attending DCPS for high school.

[Anonymous]

Lew -- not Rhee -- has been responsible for facilities improvements.

[Anonymous]

I like her.

The DC school system is a disaster. Over a billion dollars is pumped into this system and it's awlful. When Marion Berry was running DC, he would get himself reelected by giving constituents jobs in the DC public school system. The children are not receiving a billion dollars of services.

I agree that schools must be able to perform regardless of community support. Otherwise, it becomes an excuse to fail.

I don't want someone who is going to be nice. I want someone to kick asses into gear. I am a DC tax payer, and I want my money spent on services that benefit me and the community, not wasted in some bureaucratic black hole.

It's going to take a long time before this system gets turned around.

[Anonymous]

I use to be a critic of the charter school movement. That is until I had to evaluate my DC curriculum for DCPS curriculum. I mean, I believed the charter schools to be a frenemy of DCPS as I believed them CS to take well needed funds and facilities from DCPS. I believed then and still believe that CS only take the best or those with the most potential and leave DCPS with the problem students. The ES was once a blue ribbon school. Although the school's location is far beyond the coveted Ward 3 schools, it's students could compete academically. The school was a well-known secret because DC residents did not believe that Ward 5 could produce such achievements. Well Michelle Rhee with the blessings of Adrian Fenty has begun to rip this gem apart. Programs have been removed and the school age demographics have increased. My family is fortunate, as we have options. Such options were the acceptance into a well regarded charter. Ironic, yes I know. Our second option was to use a relative's address located in the Laffyette school zone. Finally, our third option was to sacrifice and send our child to private school. I will never subject my child to DC politics again. Just look at what Michelle and Adrian pulled three weeks into the school system with that 40 million dollar budget crap. No, I don't like Michelle Rhee and I like Fenty less. As to the improvements in scores that people have been contributing to Rhee, please. The reforms are contributed to Janey's implementations that manifested themselves during Rhee's term in office. Do you really think the test scores can increase that much in a matter of one to two years. As for building facilities improvements, that responsibility is Lew's. As charter's increase in popularity, I foresee two separate systems. DCPS will have most or all of the children who do not have a parent who can (politics) or will (education unimportant) advocate on behalf of their child. All the other students will attend the charters as the CS perfect their programs and increase in popularity. As much as this saddens me as long time Washingtonian, it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

21:18, I'm a DCPS parent and I think you are exactly right. I'm guessing you're referring to the destruction of Shepherd, which is tragic.

Our little school (low income, not West of the park) has been hurt by Rhee too.

I'm just praying our principal hangs on until my kids are done with elementary school. After reading the Post piece on Rhee today and about her take on what it takes white parents to get in the schools, it made me realize she is entirely out of touch with what any of DCPS parents desire...

[Anonymous]

21:18 here. No, I was not referencing Shepherd Elementary. I was referring to a Ward 5 school. It is happening in more than one enclave.