How does the GT program work in MD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real question, how many kids in CES/HGC elementary , middle and High, got in without coaching, tutoring or highly educated SAHM coaching their kids? That 1% of kids are real Highly Gifted,everyone else you know where exactly you belong without extra HELP.

Mine did. Accepted into HGC, no "coaching," never done any outside tutoring, had no idea what the test would even be like before she took it. And she's thriving in her second year, not only in her grades but in the amount and quality of what she's learning. I'm not at all saying that makes my kid some kind of special snowflake genius. Just saying it's entirely possible to get in without the kind of high-pressure stuff that allegedly goes on, according to DCUM.


I don't know of any other families at our school who coached or tutored specifically for the HGC test. Even if the parents wouldn't admit it, the kids always talk, right?

In fact, I'd love to hear from someone who really DID take their kid to a tutor to prep for the HGC test. Thinking back, I don't think I've ever actually seen a post from someone who admits that they did—only from those who claim that "everyone does it."

Please, all this sanctimony about getting into HGC on merit. As if being well-off and born to two well-educated parents wasn't already being born on third base.

100% agree, and I'd never deny that the system as it stands is inherently unfair. It's nearly impossible to separate out truly gifted kids when there are so many other intervening factors. I'm positive there are kids more "gifted" than mine whose parents either didn't realize the benefits of the program, or couldn't make it work for their kid in their own family circumstances. As I understand it, in an unbelievably ham-handed way, that's what the new pilot programs are attempting to address. Why they think relying solely on standardized test scores will improve the situation for low income/non-native English-speaking kids is beyond me.

But the PP asked a "real question" about coaching/tutoring and I gave the facts—my kid got in with no special tutoring. If reading to my kid as a toddler is cheating, then count me guilty. But I'm still not convinced the high-pressure, intensive test prep stuff is as pervasive as DCUM would make it seem. Lots of "everyone does it," but very little "we did it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HGC / CES is focused on literacy (reading/writing/social studies). The math is the same as the kids get in their home schools. In 4th grade, your child is either in regular Math 4 or compacted Math 4/5 (where they do all the 4th grade math and half the 5th grade math in 4th; then the other half of 5th and all of 6th in 5th grade) -- regardless of school setting. So if you kid is highly gifted in math but not verbal, its doubtful they will be selected for CES.

Wait, HGC kids don’t automatically do compacted math?

That is correct. Math placement is determined by the recommendation from the previous year's math teacher, just like it would be at the home school.

[Anonymous]

I would like to know which kid got into any elite travel sports team without any coaching from their parents, after school teams, etc. Which kid just picked up a damn basketball and just started making hook shots?

FWIW, we did not "coach" our kid for the HGC test. But he was able to comprehend more complicated books so I went to borrow/buy him some books. And we actually read together and discussed the story. I guess that counts as cheating, too.

Seriously people, please stop it with the coaching, prepping bit. If you want to get good MAP-M scores, you can't possibly rely on good-old common core curriculum taught only in school to land a high score. If a child shows readiness and eagerness for enrichment, there is nothing wrong with teaching/coaching them with more advanced concepts. If my child wants to know what 1/4 is in Kindergarten and asks, it's not as if I'm going to tell him I'm not allowed to tell him because I want to level the playing field for everyone else. There should never be a ceiling to any child's thirst for knowledge as there should never be a ceiling to parents' involvement to help the kids learn, as long as it's a mutual desire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real question, how many kids in CES/HGC elementary , middle and High, got in without coaching, tutoring or highly educated SAHM coaching their kids? That 1% of kids are real Highly Gifted,everyone else you know where exactly you belong without extra HELP.

Mine did. Accepted into HGC, no "coaching," never done any outside tutoring, had no idea what the test would even be like before she took it. And she's thriving in her second year, not only in her grades but in the amount and quality of what she's learning. I'm not at all saying that makes my kid some kind of special snowflake genius. Just saying it's entirely possible to get in without the kind of high-pressure stuff that allegedly goes on, according to DCUM.


I don't know of any other families at our school who coached or tutored specifically for the HGC test. Even if the parents wouldn't admit it, the kids always talk, right?

In fact, I'd love to hear from someone who really DID take their kid to a tutor to prep for the HGC test. Thinking back, I don't think I've ever actually seen a post from someone who admits that they did—only from those who claim that "everyone does it."

Please, all this sanctimony about getting into HGC on merit. As if being well-off and born to two well-educated parents wasn't already being born on third base.

Hm. well, DH and I are both immigrants, and none of our parents have college degrees (mine actually only has an ES/MS education), and the colleges we went to were 2nd or 3rd tier. I know, we are probably not the norm. Oh, and no test prep, either. I didn't know about such things when we moved here when DC was in 3rd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HGC / CES is focused on literacy (reading/writing/social studies). The math is the same as the kids get in their home schools. In 4th grade, your child is either in regular Math 4 or compacted Math 4/5 (where they do all the 4th grade math and half the 5th grade math in 4th; then the other half of 5th and all of 6th in 5th grade) -- regardless of school setting. So if you kid is highly gifted in math but not verbal, its doubtful they will be selected for CES.

Wait, HGC kids don’t automatically do compacted math?

That is correct. Math placement is determined by the recommendation from the previous year's math teacher, just like it would be at the home school.

True. That said, most are in Compacted Math together I believe. My DD is at Cold Spring and she told me all the kids are in CM except two, who are so advanced they bus to Cabin John to take classes with the 6th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HGC / CES is focused on literacy (reading/writing/social studies). The math is the same as the kids get in their home schools. In 4th grade, your child is either in regular Math 4 or compacted Math 4/5 (where they do all the 4th grade math and half the 5th grade math in 4th; then the other half of 5th and all of 6th in 5th grade) -- regardless of school setting. So if you kid is highly gifted in math but not verbal, its doubtful they will be selected for CES.

Wait, HGC kids don’t automatically do compacted math?

That is correct. Math placement is determined by the recommendation from the previous year's math teacher, just like it would be at the home school.

True. That said, most are in Compacted Math together I believe. My DD is at Cold Spring and she told me all the kids are in CM except two, who are so advanced they bus to Cabin John to take classes with the 6th graders.

So the kids are in 4th grade but gets bus to CJMS for math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's important to note that the GT programs in elementary school aren't intended as acceleration. With the exception of compacted math, which is also available in home schools to all students, the CES is just what the name says—"enriched" studies. So they go deeper into the subject areas, and approach them in different ways, but they don't move any faster. The curriculum in 4th and 5th grade CES programs is the same as the regular MCPS Curriculum 2.0. But they do learn how to research, they read more advanced books, and they present the basic concepts quickly, then proceed to apply them in more complex ways.

Is that really different than what happens at the MS level if you take the humanities route?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HGC / CES is focused on literacy (reading/writing/social studies). The math is the same as the kids get in their home schools. In 4th grade, your child is either in regular Math 4 or compacted Math 4/5 (where they do all the 4th grade math and half the 5th grade math in 4th; then the other half of 5th and all of 6th in 5th grade) -- regardless of school setting. So if you kid is highly gifted in math but not verbal, its doubtful they will be selected for CES.

Wait, HGC kids don’t automatically do compacted math?

That is correct. Math placement is determined by the recommendation from the previous year's math teacher, just like it would be at the home school.

True. That said, most are in Compacted Math together I believe. My DD is at Cold Spring and she told me all the kids are in CM except two, who are so advanced they bus to Cabin John to take classes with the 6th graders.

So the kids are in 4th grade but gets bus to CJMS for math?

No, 5th graders who are a full year+ ahead rather than a semester ahead like the other kids. In 4th they took 5th grade CM at the Center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would like to know which kid got into any elite travel sports team without any coaching from their parents, after school teams, etc. Which kid just picked up a damn basketball and just started making hook shots?

FWIW, we did not "coach" our kid for the HGC test. But he was able to comprehend more complicated books so I went to borrow/buy him some books. And we actually read together and discussed the story. I guess that counts as cheating, too.

Seriously people, please stop it with the coaching, prepping bit. If you want to get good MAP-M scores, you can't possibly rely on good-old common core curriculum taught only in school to land a high score. If a child shows readiness and eagerness for enrichment, there is nothing wrong with teaching/coaching them with more advanced concepts. If my child wants to know what 1/4 is in Kindergarten and asks, it's not as if I'm going to tell him I'm not allowed to tell him because I want to level the playing field for everyone else. There should never be a ceiling to any child's thirst for knowledge as there should never be a ceiling to parents' involvement to help the kids learn, as long as it's a mutual desire.

This exactly. If you’re a parent posting on DCUM on the details of GT programs, chances are your kids are probably vastly more prepared by you than the average mcps kid, whether you sign up for formal test prep or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HGC / CES is focused on literacy (reading/writing/social studies). The math is the same as the kids get in their home schools. In 4th grade, your child is either in regular Math 4 or compacted Math 4/5 (where they do all the 4th grade math and half the 5th grade math in 4th; then the other half of 5th and all of 6th in 5th grade) -- regardless of school setting. So if you kid is highly gifted in math but not verbal, its doubtful they will be selected for CES.

Wait, HGC kids don’t automatically do compacted math?

That is correct. Math placement is determined by the recommendation from the previous year's math teacher, just like it would be at the home school.

True. That said, most are in Compacted Math together I believe. My DD is at Cold Spring and she told me all the kids are in CM except two, who are so advanced they bus to Cabin John to take classes with the 6th graders.

So the kids are in 4th grade but gets bus to CJMS for math?

No, 5th graders who are a full year+ ahead rather than a semester ahead like the other kids. In 4th they took 5th grade CM at the Center.

How does that work? Do the kids come to Cold Spring first and then get bussed to CJMS and back by MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to know which kid got into any elite travel sports team without any coaching from their parents, after school teams, etc. Which kid just picked up a damn basketball and just started making hook shots?

FWIW, we did not "coach" our kid for the HGC test. But he was able to comprehend more complicated books so I went to borrow/buy him some books. And we actually read together and discussed the story. I guess that counts as cheating, too.

Seriously people, please stop it with the coaching, prepping bit. If you want to get good MAP-M scores, you can't possibly rely on good-old common core curriculum taught only in school to land a high score. If a child shows readiness and eagerness for enrichment, there is nothing wrong with teaching/coaching them with more advanced concepts. If my child wants to know what 1/4 is in Kindergarten and asks, it's not as if I'm going to tell him I'm not allowed to tell him because I want to level the playing field for everyone else. There should never be a ceiling to any child's thirst for knowledge as there should never be a ceiling to parents' involvement to help the kids learn, as long as it's a mutual desire.

This exactly. If you’re a parent posting on DCUM on the details of GT programs, chances are your kids are probably vastly more prepared by you than the average mcps kid, whether you sign up for formal test prep or not.

Would agree with this.
Read to ds constantly, took him to museums and plays, encouraged every sign of curiosity etc. etc. Did not do this because I wanted him to attend a magnet program - did not even know about them until 3rd grade in fact. Never prepped for any of the entrance tests. DS got into HGC, TPMS, Eastern, RMIB, BLair SMAC.
Would agree that parents do need to supplement the MCPS curriculum. Not through tutoring etc but using the library or using our many (often free) cultural resources such as museums. The only rigorous supplementation I did was with Math. I worked with him every summer (an hour a day for maybe 4 weeks) during elementary school (Grades 3-5 only) with the Singapore Math curriculum because I thought the MCPS Math curriculum was too abstract and jumped around too much and did not stress number sense and the fundamentals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HGC / CES is focused on literacy (reading/writing/social studies). The math is the same as the kids get in their home schools. In 4th grade, your child is either in regular Math 4 or compacted Math 4/5 (where they do all the 4th grade math and half the 5th grade math in 4th; then the other half of 5th and all of 6th in 5th grade) -- regardless of school setting. So if you kid is highly gifted in math but not verbal, its doubtful they will be selected for CES.

Wait, HGC kids don’t automatically do compacted math?

That is correct. Math placement is determined by the recommendation from the previous year's math teacher, just like it would be at the home school.

True. That said, most are in Compacted Math together I believe. My DD is at Cold Spring and she told me all the kids are in CM except two, who are so advanced they bus to Cabin John to take classes with the 6th graders.

So the kids are in 4th grade but gets bus to CJMS for math?

No, 5th graders who are a full year+ ahead rather than a semester ahead like the other kids. In 4th they took 5th grade CM at the Center.

How does that work? Do the kids come to Cold Spring first and then get bussed to CJMS and back by MCPS?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would like to know which kid got into any elite travel sports team without any coaching from their parents, after school teams, etc. Which kid just picked up a damn basketball and just started making hook shots?

FWIW, we did not "coach" our kid for the HGC test. But he was able to comprehend more complicated books so I went to borrow/buy him some books. And we actually read together and discussed the story. I guess that counts as cheating, too.

Seriously people, please stop it with the coaching, prepping bit. If you want to get good MAP-M scores, you can't possibly rely on good-old common core curriculum taught only in school to land a high score. If a child shows readiness and eagerness for enrichment, there is nothing wrong with teaching/coaching them with more advanced concepts. If my child wants to know what 1/4 is in Kindergarten and asks, it's not as if I'm going to tell him I'm not allowed to tell him because I want to level the playing field for everyone else. There should never be a ceiling to any child's thirst for knowledge as there should never be a ceiling to parents' involvement to help the kids learn, as long as it's a mutual desire.

Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: If you want to get good MAP-M scores, you can't possibly rely on good-old common core curriculum taught only in school to land a high score.

Why not?

Because the computerized program allows students to keep answering questions, starting with grade-level questions and moving through the curriculum, until they miss a certain number. So once the program gets beyond what a child has learned in school already, they'll need to have had some introduction to the concepts presented to be able to answer them. It's not like an IQ test, where natural aptitude should allow you to solve a certain percentage of the problems presented because they're based on logic and reasoning, rather than any learned material.

Even a very bright third grader will miss a problem involving, say, exponents, or negative numbers, if they've never seen them before at all and have no idea what that funny little number up top means, or how there can be a minus sign when you only have one number. (They don't do negative numbers until 4th grade, right? I can't remember. But you get the idea.)