Do charters really differ that much from regular public schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Universal participation does not mean that barriers to entry don't exist.

Please tell us how you would suggest lowering the barriers to entry for the lottery system.

1. Super simple application (check)
2. Advertised well throughout the District (check)
3. In person and phone options to ask questions (check)
4. Really well organized information available online and in print format (Q- do they still print the basic school directory?)

The real barriers to entry are residential segregation and American history which preceded/caused it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Universal participation does not mean that barriers to entry don't exist.

Please tell us how you would suggest lowering the barriers to entry for the lottery system.

1. Super simple application (check)
2. Advertised well throughout the District (check)
3. In person and phone options to ask questions (check)
4. Really well organized information available online and in print format (Q- do they still print the basic school directory?)

The real barriers to entry are residential segregation and American history which preceded/caused it.

I tend to agree with you that some of the distinctions between the charter and DCPS sectors are insurmountable unless society itself radically changes. And charter schools aren't going away.So while we work towards the radical societal changes, there are things that can be done to create a little more equity between sectors.

Require charters to do one-for-one replacement...if a student leaves mid-year, they need to take another kid off their wait list. Only exception is when the waitlist is exhausted. No schools should be allowed to stop taking kids at a certain grade.

Implement an at-risk preference for a portion of the seats available in charters and OOB DCPS

Give more support to DCPS schools that get the most mid-year transfers, and more oversight over the schools where the most kids are leaving.

[Anonymous]

Yes, Charter school teachers don't need a teaching license!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

PCSB itself is subject to FOIA, as a quasi-public agency (board appointed by Mayor and approved by Council).

The charter schools themselves are not subject to FOIA, but are subject to significant oversight and reporting requirements by PCSB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

PCSB itself is subject to FOIA, as a quasi-public agency (board appointed by Mayor and approved by Council).

The charter schools themselves are not subject to FOIA, but are subject to significant oversight and reporting requirements by PCSB.

This - Capital City

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Police-Attorney-General-Investigate-Public-Charter-School-for-Not-Reporting-Teachers-Suspected-Sex-Offense-456231433.html

and this were it states they don't need a license!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Teachers-Admit-Misconduct-But-Slip-Through-Cracks-450481013.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

PCSB itself is subject to FOIA, as a quasi-public agency (board appointed by Mayor and approved by Council).

The charter schools themselves are not subject to FOIA, but are subject to significant oversight and reporting requirements by PCSB.

This - Capital City

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Police-Attorney-General-Investigate-Public-Charter-School-for-Not-Reporting-Teachers-Suspected-Sex-Offense-456231433.html

and this were it states they don't need a license!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Teachers-Admit-Misconduct-But-Slip-Through-Cracks-450481013.html

None of this says anything about charters and FOIA.

And the notion of allowing charters to hire highly qualified teachers (as defined by the government) even if they don't have a teacher's license - is a feature, not a bug of charters. Teachers also don't get tenure at charter schools, and can be fired more easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

PCSB itself is subject to FOIA, as a quasi-public agency (board appointed by Mayor and approved by Council).

The charter schools themselves are not subject to FOIA, but are subject to significant oversight and reporting requirements by PCSB.

This - Capital City

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Police-Attorney-General-Investigate-Public-Charter-School-for-Not-Reporting-Teachers-Suspected-Sex-Offense-456231433.html


Trust me it's pretty easy to fire teachers at DCPS these ways, considering the more diverse ways you can now get a teacher's license it bothers me a lot that you don't need a license to teach in a charter.
and this were it states they don't need a license!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Teachers-Admit-Misconduct-But-Slip-Through-Cracks-450481013.html

None of this says anything about charters and FOIA.

And the notion of allowing charters to hire highly qualified teachers (as defined by the government) even if they don't have a teacher's license - is a feature, not a bug of charters. Teachers also don't get tenure at charter schools, and can be fired more easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

PCSB itself is subject to FOIA, as a quasi-public agency (board appointed by Mayor and approved by Council).

The charter schools themselves are not subject to FOIA, but are subject to significant oversight and reporting requirements by PCSB.

This - Capital City

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Police-Attorney-General-Investigate-Public-Charter-School-for-Not-Reporting-Teachers-Suspected-Sex-Offense-456231433.html


Trust me it's pretty easy to fire teachers at DCPS these ways, considering the more diverse ways you can now get a teacher's license it bothers me a lot that you don't need a license to teach in a charter.
and this were it states they don't need a license!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Teachers-Admit-Misconduct-But-Slip-Through-Cracks-450481013.html

None of this says anything about charters and FOIA.

And the notion of allowing charters to hire highly qualified teachers (as defined by the government) even if they don't have a teacher's license - is a feature, not a bug of charters. Teachers also don't get tenure at charter schools, and can be fired more easily.

Trust me it's pretty easy to fire teachers at DCPS these ways, considering the more diverse ways you can now get a teacher's license it bothers me a lot that you don't need a license to teach in a charter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

PCSB itself is subject to FOIA, as a quasi-public agency (board appointed by Mayor and approved by Council).

The charter schools themselves are not subject to FOIA, but are subject to significant oversight and reporting requirements by PCSB.

This - Capital City

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Police-Attorney-General-Investigate-Public-Charter-School-for-Not-Reporting-Teachers-Suspected-Sex-Offense-456231433.html


Trust me it's pretty easy to fire teachers at DCPS these ways, considering the more diverse ways you can now get a teacher's license it bothers me a lot that you don't need a license to teach in a charter.
and this were it states they don't need a license!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Teachers-Admit-Misconduct-But-Slip-Through-Cracks-450481013.html

None of this says anything about charters and FOIA.

And the notion of allowing charters to hire highly qualified teachers (as defined by the government) even if they don't have a teacher's license - is a feature, not a bug of charters. Teachers also don't get tenure at charter schools, and can be fired more easily.

Trust me it's pretty easy to fire teachers at DCPS these ways, considering the more diverse ways you can now get a teacher's license it bothers me a lot that you don't need a license to teach in a charter.

Then don't send your child to one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have much looser teacher licensing requirements.

They are also exempt from FOIA. Not a good thing in my view

I don’t believe they are exempt from FOIA.

PCSB itself is subject to FOIA, as a quasi-public agency (board appointed by Mayor and approved by Council).

The charter schools themselves are not subject to FOIA, but are subject to significant oversight and reporting requirements by PCSB.

This - Capital City

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Police-Attorney-General-Investigate-Public-Charter-School-for-Not-Reporting-Teachers-Suspected-Sex-Offense-456231433.html

and this were it states they don't need a license!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/DC-Teachers-Admit-Misconduct-But-Slip-Through-Cracks-450481013.html

None of this says anything about charters and FOIA.

And the notion of allowing charters to hire highly qualified teachers (as defined by the government) even if they don't have a teacher's license - is a feature, not a bug of charters. Teachers also don't get tenure at charter schools, and can be fired more easily.

NP. The PP is correct that charter schools are not subject to FOIA or open meeting laws. If you don’t believe that, I suggest you perform a simple google search.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that there may be differences in how charters approach special needs kids based upon how the funding works.

My understanding is that our charter school receives extra funding for each child that has an IEP. So, they receive a per pupil allocation for all kids. And, then for special needs kids, the per pupil allocation is higher because those kids require more resources. We have seen that our charter is very open to SN kids and works hard to serve their needs. (FWIW this school is not Bridges or Creative Minds which have a specific mandate in that area).

I am not familiar with the funding at DCPS. But in the special needs world, there is a lot of discussion of 'unfunded mandates' for public schools and fighting to get services for your child's legitimate special needs. My sister, who works in this area, says it is usually MUCH harder to get an IEP than it was for us to get one for our dyslexic kid at a charter school. It seems that the DCPS schools receive an overall budget that they then allocate for different programs(?). So, if they have more SN kids, they don't necessarily get a bigger SpEd budget?

The reason that this makes a difference is that I see higher % SpEd in a lot of the charters that I have looked at compared to highly regarded DCPS schools. I think that it might be that the DCPS schools are less likely to 'see' legitimate special needs because they don't necessarily get more funding to meet those needs.

As a parent with a kid with an IEP I am very curious which Charter(s) are doing a good job with IEP kids. It has been a struggle at our IB ECE school. I have heard mixed things about Bridges. I have also hear a lot of Charters short change IEP kids and don't provide them with everything in their IEP. But then again we haven't had any easy time getting all the required IEP services at DCPS either. (Though a lot of that seems to be schedule issues and leadership.)

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher and a parent who supports public, public charter and private education. While charters should be supervised, a lot of their goodness lies in the fact that they are administrated differently than public schools. Any calls to same/same them puzzle me. I would be very cautious about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that there may be differences in how charters approach special needs kids based upon how the funding works.

My understanding is that our charter school receives extra funding for each child that has an IEP. So, they receive a per pupil allocation for all kids. And, then for special needs kids, the per pupil allocation is higher because those kids require more resources. We have seen that our charter is very open to SN kids and works hard to serve their needs. (FWIW this school is not Bridges or Creative Minds which have a specific mandate in that area).

I am not familiar with the funding at DCPS. But in the special needs world, there is a lot of discussion of 'unfunded mandates' for public schools and fighting to get services for your child's legitimate special needs. My sister, who works in this area, says it is usually MUCH harder to get an IEP than it was for us to get one for our dyslexic kid at a charter school. It seems that the DCPS schools receive an overall budget that they then allocate for different programs(?). So, if they have more SN kids, they don't necessarily get a bigger SpEd budget?

The reason that this makes a difference is that I see higher % SpEd in a lot of the charters that I have looked at compared to highly regarded DCPS schools. I think that it might be that the DCPS schools are less likely to 'see' legitimate special needs because they don't necessarily get more funding to meet those needs.

As a parent with a kid with an IEP I am very curious which Charter(s) are doing a good job with IEP kids. It has been a struggle at our IB ECE school. I have heard mixed things about Bridges. I have also hear a lot of Charters short change IEP kids and don't provide them with everything in their IEP. But then again we haven't had any easy time getting all the required IEP services at DCPS either. (Though a lot of that seems to be schedule issues and leadership.)

You hit the nail on the head. It varies school by school, both within DCPS as well as charter by charter. And you can have a great year in school A for 1st, and an awful one at the same school for 2nd. The skill and approach of the principal matters as does the special ed coordinator. I also think it depends on the child's diagnosis, and what the IEP requires. A school that handles ADHD well may be awful for dyslexia, or vice versa.

My child had an IEP for speech/language services, occupational therapy and support in expressive writing that was implemented well at LAMB. However, that was 2 special education coordinators ago, and I've no idea how it would be now. When we got to middle school only accommodations were needed, and we've had a bumpy road getting those implemented well at both a DCPS and a charter.

My advice is to always supplement with private services if you can, know your rights, and take the decision year by year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that there may be differences in how charters approach special needs kids based upon how the funding works.

My understanding is that our charter school receives extra funding for each child that has an IEP. So, they receive a per pupil allocation for all kids. And, then for special needs kids, the per pupil allocation is higher because those kids require more resources. We have seen that our charter is very open to SN kids and works hard to serve their needs. (FWIW this school is not Bridges or Creative Minds which have a specific mandate in that area).

I am not familiar with the funding at DCPS. But in the special needs world, there is a lot of discussion of 'unfunded mandates' for public schools and fighting to get services for your child's legitimate special needs. My sister, who works in this area, says it is usually MUCH harder to get an IEP than it was for us to get one for our dyslexic kid at a charter school. It seems that the DCPS schools receive an overall budget that they then allocate for different programs(?). So, if they have more SN kids, they don't necessarily get a bigger SpEd budget?

The reason that this makes a difference is that I see higher % SpEd in a lot of the charters that I have looked at compared to highly regarded DCPS schools. I think that it might be that the DCPS schools are less likely to 'see' legitimate special needs because they don't necessarily get more funding to meet those needs.

As a parent with a kid with an IEP I am very curious which Charter(s) are doing a good job with IEP kids. It has been a struggle at our IB ECE school. I have heard mixed things about Bridges. I have also hear a lot of Charters short change IEP kids and don't provide them with everything in their IEP. But then again we haven't had any easy time getting all the required IEP services at DCPS either. (Though a lot of that seems to be schedule issues and leadership.)

You hit the nail on the head. It varies school by school, both within DCPS as well as charter by charter. And you can have a great year in school A for 1st, and an awful one at the same school for 2nd. The skill and approach of the principal matters as does the special ed coordinator. I also think it depends on the child's diagnosis, and what the IEP requires. A school that handles ADHD well may be awful for dyslexia, or vice versa.

My child had an IEP for speech/language services, occupational therapy and support in expressive writing that was implemented well at LAMB. However, that was 2 special education coordinators ago, and I've no idea how it would be now. When we got to middle school only accommodations were needed, and we've had a bumpy road getting those implemented well at both a DCPS and a charter.

My advice is to always supplement with private services if you can, know your rights, and take the decision year by year.

NP here -- I also found it helpful to talk to other parents of children who had similar diagnoses/disabilities. They can tell you what they like/don't like about the schools their kids have attended. I have seen inquiries like this on the SN board and found the replies useful.