Work, Money and Class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Back to the article. I liked all but the second one. Her point was not particularly well articulated, and her argument was very convoluted. As far as I can tell, her point is that sometimes people are mean to service workers but I want to work in government.

The first one is a phenomenal writer, though...especially when you consider he's only in high school.

Agree, the first was tremendous. I would be so proud to be his mother.

i can see why americans love this, but it's kind of offensive toward immigrants. not all immigrants are in awe of a few open books and a new york times. our parents are not necessarily maids and cleaners.

But he was and his mother is a house cleaner. He isn't telling anyone else's story except his own. Your comments seems a sad attempt at respectability that seeks to deny the existence and hardships of the vast majority of new immigrants.

+1. PP incorrectly assumes the student is talking about all immigrants, when he's just describing his own story.

no, i am not assuming he is talking about all immigrants. i know way too many (unlike you - just a guess) to think this is representative.

it is YOU who think he is talking about immigrant experience. and you want it to be so because... who can't love the poor little kid admiring your book collection? there is no threat here at all... just a gratitude, and this immense feeling of inferiority. awwww! such a nice, little kid, aspiring to be like us...

+1. This is right on. Check your obnoxious, condescending attitudes. Any actually smart person, rather than just a person with a degree or two from fancy institutions (which I also have), would see this. Open your eyes. And mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I especially liked the first essay. (And the third one about the laptop also was good.)

My own kids (teens who are growing up in our upper middle class household) asked me, after reading the essay, whether they'd have anything to write in a future college essay since they haven't really had any particular hardship that they have overcome. There are still plenty of topics for college essays, but nothing like the punch of the first and the third essays.

God, this is a good troll post! Congrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the article. I liked all but the second one. Her point was not particularly well articulated, and her argument was very convoluted. As far as I can tell, her point is that sometimes people are mean to service workers but I want to work in government.

The first one is a phenomenal writer, though...especially when you consider he's only in high school.

Agree, the first was tremendous. I would be so proud to be his mother.

i can see why americans love this, but it's kind of offensive toward immigrants. not all immigrants are in awe of a few open books and a new york times. our parents are not necessarily maids and cleaners.

But he was and his mother is a house cleaner. He isn't telling anyone else's story except his own. Your comments seems a sad attempt at respectability that seeks to deny the existence and hardships of the vast majority of new immigrants.

+1. PP incorrectly assumes the student is talking about all immigrants, when he's just describing his own story.

no, i am not assuming he is talking about all immigrants. i know way too many (unlike you - just a guess) to think this is representative.

it is YOU who think he is talking about immigrant experience. and you want it to be so because... who can't love the poor little kid admiring your book collection? there is no threat here at all... just a gratitude, and this immense feeling of inferiority. awwww! such a nice, little kid, aspiring to be like us...

PP here. You'd guess wrong. I'm a child of immigrants, and married to an immigrant.

And your post is pretty incoherent, as is your reasoning. The student said nowhere in his essay that he was referring to all immigrants--just reflecting his own experience.

[Anonymous]

^ Yes, it was a good essay! Let the young man tell his story. It belongs to him.

FWIW, I identify with him. I did tons of babysitting and miscellaneous odd jobs for families in a college town. The professors for whom I worked also made an impression on me, in much the same way. They had access to a larger world that I knew I didn't have as a blue collar kid. But I had glimpses in it all the time, working in other people's homes and in the town library.

These experiences had a lot to do with my aspirations to attend both college and graduate school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I especially liked the first essay. (And the third one about the laptop also was good.)

My own kids (teens who are growing up in our upper middle class household) asked me, after reading the essay, whether they'd have anything to write in a future college essay since they haven't really had any particular hardship that they have overcome. There are still plenty of topics for college essays, but nothing like the punch of the first and the third essays.

God, this is a good troll post! Congrats.

I don't think this is a troll. I was actually thinking that about my own DS. He lives in a bubble with no hardships with being poor or culture. BORING

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the article. I liked all but the second one. Her point was not particularly well articulated, and her argument was very convoluted. As far as I can tell, her point is that sometimes people are mean to service workers but I want to work in government.

The first one is a phenomenal writer, though...especially when you consider he's only in high school.

Agree, the first was tremendous. I would be so proud to be his mother.

i can see why americans love this, but it's kind of offensive toward immigrants. not all immigrants are in awe of a few open books and a new york times. our parents are not necessarily maids and cleaners.

But he was and his mother is a house cleaner. He isn't telling anyone else's story except his own. Your comments seems a sad attempt at respectability that seeks to deny the existence and hardships of the vast majority of new immigrants.

+1. PP incorrectly assumes the student is talking about all immigrants, when he's just describing his own story.

no, i am not assuming he is talking about all immigrants. i know way too many (unlike you - just a guess) to think this is representative.

it is YOU who think he is talking about immigrant experience. and you want it to be so because... who can't love the poor little kid admiring your book collection? there is no threat here at all... just a gratitude, and this immense feeling of inferiority. awwww! such a nice, little kid, aspiring to be like us...

PP here. You'd guess wrong. I'm a child of immigrants, and married to an immigrant.

And your post is pretty incoherent, as is your reasoning. The student said nowhere in his essay that he was referring to all immigrants--just reflecting his own experience.

as already explained, the problem is not so much the guy who wrote the essay (though the essay is really really kitschy) but the out of proportion appreciate of it that comes solely from confirming one's own prejudices and a sense of superiority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the article. I liked all but the second one. Her point was not particularly well articulated, and her argument was very convoluted. As far as I can tell, her point is that sometimes people are mean to service workers but I want to work in government.

The first one is a phenomenal writer, though...especially when you consider he's only in high school.

Agree, the first was tremendous. I would be so proud to be his mother.

i can see why americans love this, but it's kind of offensive toward immigrants. not all immigrants are in awe of a few open books and a new york times. our parents are not necessarily maids and cleaners.

But he was and his mother is a house cleaner. He isn't telling anyone else's story except his own. Your comments seems a sad attempt at respectability that seeks to deny the existence and hardships of the vast majority of new immigrants.

actually i went through a bit of a hardship myself. it's not the hardship, it's the "wow a new york times" part that really is demeaning.

yes, all he is doing is telling his story, but if i told you that my father was noted jurist, that i went to harvard etc, somehow i don't think you would awww so much.[/quote]

Your argument makes no sense. No one would say "awww" because having a father who is a noted jurist indicates a great deal of privilege which partially explains how you ended up at Harvard. You must see that your personal history differs greatly in this respect from the kid who wrote the first essay, yes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the article. I liked all but the second one. Her point was not particularly well articulated, and her argument was very convoluted. As far as I can tell, her point is that sometimes people are mean to service workers but I want to work in government.

The first one is a phenomenal writer, though...especially when you consider he's only in high school.

Agree, the first was tremendous. I would be so proud to be his mother.

i can see why americans love this, but it's kind of offensive toward immigrants. not all immigrants are in awe of a few open books and a new york times. our parents are not necessarily maids and cleaners.

But he was and his mother is a house cleaner. He isn't telling anyone else's story except his own. Your comments seems a sad attempt at respectability that seeks to deny the existence and hardships of the vast majority of new immigrants.

actually i went through a bit of a hardship myself. it's not the hardship, it's the "wow a new york times" part that really is demeaning.

yes, all he is doing is telling his story, but if i told you that my father was noted jurist, that i went to harvard etc, somehow i don't think you would awww so much.

Your argument makes no sense. No one would say "awww" because having a father who is a noted jurist indicates a great deal of privilege which partially explains how you ended up at Harvard. You must see that your personal history differs greatly in this respect from the kid who wrote the first essay, yes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I especially liked the first essay. (And the third one about the laptop also was good.)

My own kids (teens who are growing up in our upper middle class household) asked me, after reading the essay, whether they'd have anything to write in a future college essay since they haven't really had any particular hardship that they have overcome. There are still plenty of topics for college essays, but nothing like the punch of the first and the third essays.

God, this is a good troll post! Congrats.

I don't think this is a troll. I was actually thinking that about my own DS. He lives in a bubble with no hardships with being poor or culture. BORING

He can write about the process of realizing he lives in bubble and what he's doing to ensure he gets out of it. People love that shit. Boom, done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I especially liked the first essay. (And the third one about the laptop also was good.)

My own kids (teens who are growing up in our upper middle class household) asked me, after reading the essay, whether they'd have anything to write in a future college essay since they haven't really had any particular hardship that they have overcome. There are still plenty of topics for college essays, but nothing like the punch of the first and the third essays.

God, this is a good troll post! Congrats.

I don't think this is a troll. I was actually thinking that about my own DS. He lives in a bubble with no hardships with being poor or culture. BORING

He can write about the process of realizing he lives in bubble and what he's doing to ensure he gets out of it. People love that shit. Boom, done.

NP here. It does seem like, if a teenager has come from a modest background with few advantages, he or she might as well write about that in the college essay (even if he or she is not trying to play the victim.) It is admirable for a teen to overcome those obstacles and be motivated enough to work hard and figure out how to apply for college and financial aid when there is no college advisor paving the way.

But if you come from a relatively privileged background, you still need to write about something on your college essay. If I were an admissions official, I would find it annoying if a kid wrote about how he knows he lives in a bubble. Maybe a privileged teen could write about teachers that have influenced him/her.

It's a lot to ask teenagers to write a detailed essay about themselves. I could write it about myself now (at age 47), but it's hard to have perspective at age 17. It would be nice if there were an option to just submit a research paper in lieu of an essay about yourself. We don't ask job applicants to do that, after all.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe college essays. Smart kids know how to pander. It's all a hustle, especially at the top end. Anyone "moved" by a college essay is being a gullible sucker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

as already explained, the problem is not so much the guy who wrote the essay (though the essay is really really kitschy) but the out of proportion appreciate of it that comes solely from confirming one's own prejudices and a sense of superiority.

I read your post several times and have no clue what you're trying to say, partly because I don't see anything in the essay that matches what you seem to be alleging.

The young man wrote an essay about an experience that has been told thousands if not millions of times over and over again by immigrants to the United States. Immigrate to the US, work hard, start off life as working class workers doing dirty work, gain exposure to the finer things in life, use it to fuel a motivation in you to work harder and use education to move up the economic ladder. It's the classic American myth and I'm glad that it's still real today.

The other aspect of the essay is someone from a more limited background due to cultural and economic factors being exposed to a bigger world through a more prosperous person's house and made aware of the greater possibilities in life. Once again, this is a classic experience millions have had throughout the centuries. And it's also real. I have stories in my own (non-immigrant) family that touches on this theme too. My father grew up in a small town middle class family. Their idea of a good college was the local state university. My father had a part time job mowing the lawn of the president of the town's factory, who went to Williams. It was through this factory president that my father became aware of a much bigger world than small town America and that there were other colleges out there and not just the main flagship state university either, which most people in the town assumed was a great school because it had a winning football team. When my father realized there was a different kind of life to be had, a richer and more rewarding life (for someone like him) he was forever changed.

I think what I find most interesting about the first essay is not so much the young man and his exposure to the world of the professor, but that the world is divided into people who are aware of greater possibilities and seek them out, and those who are not, and many of the latter simply never seek them even if they see it daily. It's quite interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

as already explained, the problem is not so much the guy who wrote the essay (though the essay is really really kitschy) but the out of proportion appreciate of it that comes solely from confirming one's own prejudices and a sense of superiority.

I read your post several times and have no clue what you're trying to say, partly because I don't see anything in the essay that matches what you seem to be alleging.

The young man wrote an essay about an experience that has been told thousands if not millions of times over and over again by immigrants to the United States. Immigrate to the US, work hard, start off life as working class workers doing dirty work, gain exposure to the finer things in life, use it to fuel a motivation in you to work harder and use education to move up the economic ladder. It's the classic American myth and I'm glad that it's still real today.

The other aspect of the essay is someone from a more limited background due to cultural and economic factors being exposed to a bigger world through a more prosperous person's house and made aware of the greater possibilities in life. Once again, this is a classic experience millions have had throughout the centuries. And it's also real. I have stories in my own (non-immigrant) family that touches on this theme too. My father grew up in a small town middle class family. Their idea of a good college was the local state university. My father had a part time job mowing the lawn of the president of the town's factory, who went to Williams. It was through this factory president that my father became aware of a much bigger world than small town America and that there were other colleges out there and not just the main flagship state university either, which most people in the town assumed was a great school because it had a winning football team. When my father realized there was a different kind of life to be had, a richer and more rewarding life (for someone like him) he was forever changed.

I think what I find most interesting about the first essay is not so much the young man and his exposure to the world of the professor, but that the world is divided into people who are aware of greater possibilities and seek them out, and those who are not, and many of the latter simply never seek them even if they see it daily. It's quite interesting.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to the article. I liked all but the second one. Her point was not particularly well articulated, and her argument was very convoluted. As far as I can tell, her point is that sometimes people are mean to service workers but I want to work in government.

The first one is a phenomenal writer, though...especially when you consider he's only in high school.

Agree, the first was tremendous. I would be so proud to be his mother.

i can see why americans love this, but it's kind of offensive toward immigrants. not all immigrants are in awe of a few open books and a new york times. our parents are not necessarily maids and cleaners.

But he was and his mother is a house cleaner. He isn't telling anyone else's story except his own. Your comments seems a sad attempt at respectability that seeks to deny the existence and hardships of the vast majority of new immigrants.

+1. PP incorrectly assumes the student is talking about all immigrants, when he's just describing his own story.

no, i am not assuming he is talking about all immigrants. i know way too many (unlike you - just a guess) to think this is representative.

it is YOU who think he is talking about immigrant experience. and you want it to be so because... who can't love the poor little kid admiring your book collection? there is no threat here at all... just a gratitude, and this immense feeling of inferiority. awwww! such a nice, little kid, aspiring to be like us...

PP here. You'd guess wrong. I'm a child of immigrants, and married to an immigrant.

And your post is pretty incoherent, as is your reasoning. The student said nowhere in his essay that he was referring to all immigrants--just reflecting his own experience.

as already explained, the problem is not so much the guy who wrote the essay (though the essay is really really kitschy) but the out of proportion appreciate of it that comes solely from confirming one's own prejudices and a sense of superiority.

If you read the prior posts, you will see that two of them (one written by me) state explicitly that we appreciate the essay because it calls out to a shared experience.

I don't think "awww" - not for one second. But I do know what it is like to be from a humble background and be intrigued about ideas and experiences outsides one's own world. And wanting to gain access.

Perhaps someone is going "awwww." Perhaps it is the kid of the jurist, which you offer as an example. Or perhaps the jurist child just hates to be confused with anyone who started off working class?

We, the working class and the working class's offspring, do not bite. It's OK. I promise! Rumors of our uncouth ways are overblown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe in Michigan it's possible to have a nice life as a professor, but it's harder here. When I was living in My first "just out of college" apartment in Arlington my next door neighbors were two professors with two kids living in a shitty two bedroom. It was not a fancy apartment. My friends in the area who are currently professors either live in way far out suburbs and complain constantly about $$ or have family money to float them.

The "nice life" professor belongs in TV myth, along with the rich Brady bunch architect.

You are all completely missing the point. Whether or not a professor has a nice life "by our standards," it clearly gave this kid something to aspire to.

Being a tenured professor at a major university is great the same way it is great to be a top 10 golfer or a Hollywood movie star. Only very few make it to the top and they are handsomely rewarded. The rest either work in academia for peanuts or abandon it and earn more money but feel a lot of their schooling was for nothing.

I would never tell my children to pursue this. Ever.

It is also highly dependent on what you teach. The English professor is going to make far less than the medical school professor; the law professor will make something in between.