Grades are the Be All and End All

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post is useless without knowing what schools OP is talking about. If she didn't get into the Ivy's or Amherst or other elite colleges, I'm not surprised at all, as they are essentially a lottery even for the kids with a 4.5. If you're talking about good schools for smart kids like UVA and W&M, I may be a little surprised. If you're talking about Penn State and JMU, I'm surprised.

According to Prep Scholar, the average GPA at UVA is 4.26 and the average at W&M is 4.16.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With grade inflation being as rampant as it is, if you don't have at least a 4.0 W/GPA, you're not really trying.

I'm wondering what school or school system you're referring to. My child goes to one of the most well regarded FCPS high schools, and I can assure you - it's more like grade deflation there. Very, very difficult.

I'm the PP and I'm referring to LCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is useless without knowing what schools OP is talking about. If she didn't get into the Ivy's or Amherst or other elite colleges, I'm not surprised at all, as they are essentially a lottery even for the kids with a 4.5. If you're talking about good schools for smart kids like UVA and W&M, I may be a little surprised. If you're talking about Penn State and JMU, I'm surprised.

Columbia
Georgetown
UVA
W&M
Rochester
NYU
UT-Austin

That is a tough list for anyone, much less a kid with less than perfect GPA/test scores like OPs. DC had a SAT score higher than Columbia's (which I quickly googled and was listed as 1530), which is apparently roughly the same as OP's kid. Grades were fine from a tough private but also not perfect. The list started with schools like Rochester and NYU and went from there, although DC did try for one or two tougher schools. I actually feel like the high scores helped quite a bit and DC was accepted everywhere with a greater than 20% acceptance rate. DC's list was not as competitive as the list above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It will not matter how rigourous your child's curriculum is, nor how stellar their ECs, how brilliantly written their essays or how high their SATs or ACTs. What will matter most is their GPA. And it won't matter whether, as the schools will tell you, whether that GPA has been on an upward trajectory or whether their is a solid explanation why you worked hard for that 3.7 GPA vs. someone with that 4.3. Looking at the stats of the schools that rejected my DD, she was easily above their average SAT/ACT scores, but below the apparently weighted GPAs of most of those accepted.

'

If your daughter is a Caucasian or Asian girl? That contributed to her rejection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I can only talk about what I see from the list of schools that rejected my DD. A few of them, we cannot even see the Naviance numbers, b/c the numbers of applicants are too small, so Naviance masks the information. But the common date point I see is SAT/ACT scores that put DD above the average, but GPA on the edge, and that played out to rejection across the board. I think in only one case did her essay/interview even give her a chance. But we've move on. She has selected the school that selected her. That will be their loss and the other accepted students who won't have the benefit of learning from my equally smart/compassionate young lady.

It is so heartbreaking, isn't it? The kids take it so personally and it hurts us as parents. If it makes you feel better, my DD was almost universally rejected despite a very high GPA and SAT/ACT scores well within the range of what was required for those schools. And she also had awards. What it came down to, according to an education consulted I asked, was 'did she fit the diversity costume for that year'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think DC would be better off going to a mediocre h.s. and being at the top of the class, than going to a rigorous h.s. and being in the middle.

Thank you. I've selected a Middle School that is rich in community and learning options. I like the exposure it provides and the feel of the place, but the scores aren't the best. DC will do well there because of the atmosphere and good grades will be the bonus. Both of children could make the top of their classes there. High school will be much more challenging, assuming they get in to the one I want for them. My hope is the confidence and love of learning they gain in this particular Middle School will help carry them through the rigor of HS. I have no expectations of AP classes either, but meaningful ECs that make them more interesting to colleges. They don't have to get to Calculus, but will be very well-read and know how to write well. This is the plan. I'm a professor. I don't see the entirety of the admissions process, but I have gleaned a bit of knowledge about how interesting students get a pass. I'm at the grad level, so it may be vastly different for undergrad acceptances. We'll see!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I can only talk about what I see from the list of schools that rejected my DD. A few of them, we cannot even see the Naviance numbers, b/c the numbers of applicants are too small, so Naviance masks the information. But the common date point I see is SAT/ACT scores that put DD above the average, but GPA on the edge, and that played out to rejection across the board. I think in only one case did her essay/interview even give her a chance. But we've move on. She has selected the school that selected her. That will be their loss and the other accepted students who won't have the benefit of learning from my equally smart/compassionate young lady.

It is so heartbreaking, isn't it? The kids take it so personally and it hurts us as parents. If it makes you feel better, my DD was almost universally rejected despite a very high GPA and SAT/ACT scores well within the range of what was required for those schools. And she also had awards. What it came down to, according to an education consulted I asked, was 'did she fit the diversity costume for that year'.

That's a bit much - what state are from? Your kid is a dime a dozen is what it is. Thousands of kids like yours were rejected - thousands upon thousands. Sorry, buf your kid is not 'special'. How is it that you are just beginning to realize this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is useless without knowing what schools OP is talking about. If she didn't get into the Ivy's or Amherst or other elite colleges, I'm not surprised at all, as they are essentially a lottery even for the kids with a 4.5. If you're talking about good schools for smart kids like UVA and W&M, I may be a little surprised. If you're talking about Penn State and JMU, I'm surprised.

Columbia
Georgetown
UVA
W&M
Rochester
NYU
UT-Austin

That is a tough list for anyone, much less a kid with less than perfect GPA/test scores like OPs. DC had a SAT score higher than Columbia's (which I quickly googled and was listed as 1530), which is apparently roughly the same as OP's kid. Grades were fine from a tough private but also not perfect. The list started with schools like Rochester and NYU and went from there, although DC did try for one or two tougher schools. I actually feel like the high scores helped quite a bit and DC was accepted everywhere with a greater than 20% acceptance rate. DC's list was not as competitive as the list above.

So many kids wash out of Columbia, I wouldn't even put it on my list. I've had fellow Ph.D.s tell me about their false start at Columbia. They moved on to other places and did very well. Their journalism grad program is stellar and is their social work program, but boy do you have to go in prepared. Undergrad is academic hazing the first year. It's that tough. If your child has done well at Columbia, you should be in awe. For first year rigor, I place it at Stanford level. The student body is highly competitive, not laid back at all. You've only truly matriculated once you get past the first year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will not matter how rigourous your child's curriculum is, nor how stellar their ECs, how brilliantly written their essays or how high their SATs or ACTs. What will matter most is their GPA. And it won't matter whether, as the schools will tell you, whether that GPA has been on an upward trajectory or whether their is a solid explanation why you worked hard for that 3.7 GPA vs. someone with that 4.3. Looking at the stats of the schools that rejected my DD, she was easily above their average SAT/ACT scores, but below the apparently weighted GPAs of most of those accepted.

'

If your daughter is a Caucasian or Asian girl? That contributed to her rejection.

Let the ignorance and hate begin. Really people - maybe that's why your kid was rejected - because of hate and ignorance. Maybe you can't hide that.
Does your kid go to an expensive private school in the south where one AA student is accepted each year? Maybe Georgetown (etc) doesn't think you will fit in their diverse school with very extremely intelligent students from most every country in the world. Maybe hate works against your DC.

My DD is a top student in difficult classes at a top private school and we have no illusions that she has a good shot at the top private schools. She has a shot but she could be rejected by all and it would not be unexpected.
Even my DD - if I tell her she's smart and doing well she is the first to say that she is 'nothing special' which is true. There are a ton of kids who have gone beyond doing well in school who have invented something already for gosh sakes. High test scores are common - perfect test scores are not.

Get over yourselves!

[Anonymous]

Has it occurred to OP that there may be other factors at play here? Perhaps her teachers thought she had a bad attitude and wrote mediocre recs. Or something in her essay made her sound overly entitled or obnoxious or whatever. Lots of possibilities besides the less-than-stellar gpa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has it occurred to OP that there may be other factors at play here? Perhaps her teachers thought she had a bad attitude and wrote mediocre recs. Or something in her essay made her sound overly entitled or obnoxious or whatever. Lots of possibilities besides the less-than-stellar gpa.

Her essay - and this comes from a teacher friend who read it - was well written and very unique - about her impressions growing up in Africa and what that meant for her development being surrounded not only by the every day poverty of the place but also its striking natural beauty and the resilient people she met who inspired her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People greatly exaggerate the personal attention apps receive. They're first sorted by GPA and SAT/ACT. If you miss the cutoff, I doubt your app is even opened at most schools. Likely straight to the electronic garage bin. Thanks for the $100!

You're also sadly mistaken if you think that an actual "admissions officer" is reading your application. THe initial read at many places is done by individuals who are contracted to do the work as free-lancers. They might include alumni, current students, professor's wives and husbands, etc. These people, unfortunately, do not have the same highly developed bullshit detectors an actual admissions officer might have (i.e. They won't actually know that the youth orchestra has four tiers and your kid's in the shitty one, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has it occurred to OP that there may be other factors at play here? Perhaps her teachers thought she had a bad attitude and wrote mediocre recs. Or something in her essay made her sound overly entitled or obnoxious or whatever. Lots of possibilities besides the less-than-stellar gpa.

Her essay - and this comes from a teacher friend who read it - was well written and very unique - about her impressions growing up in Africa and what that meant for her development being surrounded not only by the every day poverty of the place but also its striking natural beauty and the resilient people she met who inspired her.

OP I know people are giving you a hard time. I'm sorry this happened to your daughter. I heard that this year was really brutal, lots of kids got shut out. Or were maybe only accepted to 2-3 out of 12 schools or something crazy. I think its natural to want to find one thing that would have made a difference but because of the opaqueness of the process, its impossible to identify the reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is useless without knowing what schools OP is talking about. If she didn't get into the Ivy's or Amherst or other elite colleges, I'm not surprised at all, as they are essentially a lottery even for the kids with a 4.5. If you're talking about good schools for smart kids like UVA and W&M, I may be a little surprised. If you're talking about Penn State and JMU, I'm surprised.

Columbia
Georgetown
UVA
W&M
Rochester
NYU
UT-Austin

That is a tough list for anyone, much less a kid with less than perfect GPA/test scores like OPs. DC had a SAT score higher than Columbia's (which I quickly googled and was listed as 1530), which is apparently roughly the same as OP's kid. Grades were fine from a tough private but also not perfect. The list started with schools like Rochester and NYU and went from there, although DC did try for one or two tougher schools. I actually feel like the high scores helped quite a bit and DC was accepted everywhere with a greater than 20% acceptance rate. DC's list was not as competitive as the list above.

Just for point of reference. The GPA's that are in Naviance for each of the schools listed:

Columbia – 4.51
Georgetown -4.34
UVA – 4.18
W&M – 4.21
Rochester – 4.29
NYU - 3.99
UT-Austin – 4.02

[Anonymous]

^^I'll just add that I think OPs situation also suggests that GPA matters more than test scores. I've seen folks say on different threads that sometimes it is a red flag to have high test scores and lower GPA.