Why aren't more discussions about blatant greed
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Anonymous
Yes, Obama is a strong man and can take care of himself. But that said, no, that's not what it's about, your complaint misses the mark, that being that there is still a sizeable and significant issue of racism in America which does indeed still impact and harm many Americans, and all your complaint does is deflect from that. |
Anonymous
Xenophobia? Obama is American-born. Otherism? He's as American as anyone else. There was never any legitimate evidence that Obama's mother traveled out of the country to have him, that was all deliberately fabricated. The anti-Obama protests and social media posts contradict you where it comes to racism, given the portrayals as African witch doctor and everything else. |
Anonymous
I disagree. Calling something racism when it is clearly not deflects from actual racism. |
Anonymous
Sure, Trump takes the greed to a new and outlandish level, but let's face it, the GOP has always been about gaming the system to work for the 1%. Virtually every policy they want to dismantle has a big gain for the big corporation or super rich investor and virtually nothing for the rest of us. Heck, the whole healthcare debate is predicated on the assumption that we must protect big healthcare businesses and insurers when what is in the best interest of the average American is a single payer system which would cost the individual far less than any health insurance would - and by most estimates be far less costly to our national economy. We now have the AHCA (aka Trumpcare) and whaddya know? A big tax cut for wealthy Americans is tucked away in the plan. We've got piggies at the trough. And to be fair, the GOP is the worst of it, but the Democratic party is guilty, too. |
Anonymous
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I'm the PP who originally brought up birtherism = racism, and I have not participated in this discussion since. The ongoing back-and-forth in these threads, however, proves my point. There is nothing you can do to convince people who are determined that birtherism, like so many other insane criticisms of Obama, was about anything but race.
It's been documented political strategy (based on recordings from the political strategists who developed them) to translate underlying racial animosity into policies and initiatives that do not overtly meet the criteria of calling someone the n-word, but to any POC are so clearly racist. And now, we've come full circle, because the anti-PC "movement" has allowed for subtle, indirect racism and then okayed calling anyone who points it out a "whiner, snowflake". It's pretty brilliant strategy, and I have no idea how to challenge it. I think it means going back to focusing on outcomes, policies, and demands instead of attitudes. Attitudes also have to change, but MLK Jr focused on jobs and voting rights for black people, not erasing racism from the people's hearts. BLM has rightly identified the criminal justice reform as the most pressing issue of the day, but focusing racially motivated police brutality is not helping their cause, IMHO. Not because anything they are saying is untrue, but because it's getting them into an unwinnable debate about what people's inner motivations are instead of focusing specifically on the needed reforms. There is enough outrage in the black community and other supportive communities to win policy change without convincing people who are incentivized not to be convinced. |
Anonymous
There's another thread trying to downplay racism and hate crimes, i.e. claiming "most" are hoaxes or false flags, just because in the last 6 months have been a few of the 1000 plus documented by SPLC since the election turned out to be faked - despite the fact that in just the last couple of weeks alone there have been as many or more that turned out to be quite real and quite vicious (stabbings, et cetera), with a half dozen links about the arrested perps posted. Too much of this "I'm not a racist but..." going on. If you truly aren't a racist then stop right there. Stop defending and providing cover for those who are. |
Anonymous
Clearly not? Obama portrayed as African witch doctor and constant references to Kenya and Africa is "clearly not" racism? Fake, completely made-up "xenophobia" over an American-born citizen is what, exactly? |
Anonymous
On its face, the birtherism theory has nothing to do with race. But that fiction keeps getting repeated so no one stops to think about it. There is real racism in this country, in education, criminal justice, and the job market. When you get caught up in the reverse conspiracy theory about the birtherist motives, you lose credibility when you call out genuine racism. Get to know more people from middle America. Obama does not need you to defend him against silly stuff. Just point to the fact that he was president for two terms. That settled it, didn't it? |
Anonymous
Um, excuse me, but I grew up in middle America. And some of the people I knew there were indeed outright racists with zero doubt about it. This makes me wonder if you actually know people in middle America. That's the thing about you apologists, you want to claim we don't know what we're talking about. Sorry but we do know what we're talking about. You want to whine about "coastal elites" who don't know and look down on "flyover country." We were born and raised and came from "flyover country". A huge percentage of people I know in DC originally came from places like Idaho, Colorado, Kansas and elsewhere. Conservatives keep repeating a false narrative that just doesn't wash. |
Anonymous
Agree that Obama doesn't need us to defend him. But why do you feel the need to defend racists? |
Anonymous
Ok, good. You are right. I have not lived in middle America for over a decade and have spent most of my life on the East Coast. Maybe you can gather some anecdotal evidence. Find some of the racists you knew growing up. See if any of them were aware of and prescribed to the birtherism theory. Then ask if their racial attitudes caused them to believe that President Obama's mother traveled overseas when she was pregnant, gave birth to the future president, and then later forged his birth certificate. I have trouble with belief in the last part being associated with racism. You should not rule out the possibility that the racists you knew were also incredibly easy to fool with any sort of official sounding idea, scheme or theory coming from someone they trust. |
Anonymous
At some point that becomes a distinction without a difference. As was noted above, the initial question was asked and easily resolved. Some people may have taken the birther conspiracy theories and run with them because they started off as racists and wanted some way to argue that Obama was illegitimate, and others may have felt the birther conspiracy had some legitimacy because it aligned with the result they wanted to see because they were already racially inclined against Obama. You say you didn't believe the birther claims, but you seem to be working awfully hard to find ways to claim it wasn't racist. You can keep believing that if it makes you happy. But, at the end of the day, the whole strategy was to emphasize Obama's "otherness" for those who feel that America is a predominantly white, Christian nation. Whether it was playing on claims that he was an illegitimate candidate and then president, to the claims that he was a "secret Muslim," it was all targeted at the fact that Obama was racially different and (secretly) culturally different. It played on the prejudices of those middle Americans (among others) you claim were just "fooled," and it was a fundamentally race-based attack on the legitimacy of his candidacy and presidency. |
Anonymous
Of course it was racist! Trump was saying that the first black POTUS was illegitimate because he was not born in the US. Trump didn't accuse any other POTUS in his lifetime of being illegitimate. Only one. The black POTUS. So, I'd say, yes indeed, birtherism is racist. |
Anonymous
I don't consider Obama's book deal "greed." He didn't make that money by denying anyone health care, or denying that air pollution is causing the earth's atmosphere to heat up. Trump is the worst of the worst: A stingy rich person. He's constantly selling himself and looking for a way to make a buck. He's renting space in Trump Tower to the Federal Government, ie you and me, so the SS can protect him and his family. He's not donating the space. He charges the SS to stay at Mar A Lago and his other clubs while they are protecting him. He continues to profit every single day from expanding his brand.... This is old news. OP is correct that it's all fueled by greed. Trump is a salesman. He convinced the greedy stupid voters that they, too, can get rich, if they vote for him. They are too stupid to see how empty his promises are. They are greedy too, OP, all of them. They want jobs and good healthcare and their old lifestyles back, and Trump told them he'd bring back coal jobs and manufacturing jobs and ditch NAFTA, and, morons that they are, they believed him. They are greedy too. The greedy smart voters knew Trump would help them screw the public by eliminating protections for consumers, lowering taxes for the rich, getting rid of regulations so corporations and rich folks can make more and more money. They knew what they were getting when they voted for Trump, and yes, it's all about greed. |
Anonymous
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Blatant greed is pushed by the largest, too big to fail banks and their elite managers. these are the type of people that have no morals.
America’s largest banking institutions are even larger now than they were before the 2008 financial crisis. The nation’s six largest banks issue more than two thirds of all credit cards and more than a third of all mortgages. They control 95 percent of all derivatives and hold more than 40 percent of all US bank deposits. and this guy, from a bank that is too big to fail, that was propped up by federal government during the financial crisis, that was a beneficiary of the repeal of the Glass Stengal act of 1933, that is a core part of the 1% educated elite that are pushing for more and more globalization, is pushing for more low skilled immigration to keep labor costs low for the 1%. not enough babies, so we need to import more. reality it is more self serving propaganda. this guy should read up about how JP Morgan is getting rich while pushing US closer and closer to financial disaster. https://berniesanders.com/yes-glass-steagall-matters-here-are-5-reasons-why/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/06/opinion/sunday/to-be-great-again-america-needs-immigrants.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Moth-Visible&moduleDetail=inside-nyt-region-4&module=inside-nyt-region®ion=inside-nyt-region&WT.nav=inside-nyt-region |