Teachers please explain the mathematics obsession

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have to read Shakespeare and books written by dead authors in school, much of which I found depressing, boring, and hated the characters. It's useless to me in everyday life.

Literature increases vocabulary, provides exposure to other cultures, introduces ideas and concepts that can further one's understanding of society and human nature. Higher level math does none of this. For most people, it is simply pointless number puzzles.

See, you missed the point entirely. High level math teaches you to think critically, logically, which is also important in life. I am a math person, but actually understand literature and can appreciate it. My DH, also a math person, doesn't get most of the literature he had to read. He doesn't feel it's helped him at all. It was the bane of his existence in school.

But how often do you sit around thinking or having conversations about mathmatical concepts?

I don't sit around thinking or having conversations about Shakespeare, either. Like I stated up thread, higher level math is not about math, per se, but about solving more complex problems, developing higher level critical thinking skills. The current and future job market for highly paid jobs require complex critical thinking skills, not just rote memorization of math. I read an article about how CEOs are looking for problem solvers for complex issues. I'm not saying only higher level math can teach this, but it certainly helps use a certain part of your brain to develop these skills.

Oh come on. So that's the reason to make kids suffer through years of math courses most will never use? Using that logic you might as well just teach them chess. At least they would be learning something that they might actually do in their real lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have to read Shakespeare and books written by dead authors in school, much of which I found depressing, boring, and hated the characters. It's useless to me in everyday life.

Literature increases vocabulary, provides exposure to other cultures, introduces ideas and concepts that can further one's understanding of society and human nature. Higher level math does none of this. For most people, it is simply pointless number puzzles.

See, you missed the point entirely. High level math teaches you to think critically, logically, which is also important in life. I am a math person, but actually understand literature and can appreciate it. My DH, also a math person, doesn't get most of the literature he had to read. He doesn't feel it's helped him at all. It was the bane of his existence in school.

But how often do you sit around thinking or having conversations about mathmatical concepts?

I don't sit around thinking or having conversations about Shakespeare, either. Like I stated up thread, higher level math is not about math, per se, but about solving more complex problems, developing higher level critical thinking skills. The current and future job market for highly paid jobs require complex critical thinking skills, not just rote memorization of math. I read an article about how CEOs are looking for problem solvers for complex issues. I'm not saying only higher level math can teach this, but it certainly helps use a certain part of your brain to develop these skills.

Oh come on. So that's the reason to make kids suffer through years of math courses most will never use? Using that logic you might as well just teach them chess. At least they would be learning something that they might actually do in their real lives.

LOl... so because we don't want kids to "suffer" we shouldn't make them take hard classes that will teach them to think critically beyond a 9th grade level? Like I stated, I don't find Shakespeare useful, but the reason schools make students read literature is to broaden their horizons and make them use a different part of their brain. Maybe we should just make school optional after 9th grade like they used to way back when most people had no use for higher level education? Now, there's a great solution.. let's make America great again by making people uneducated and not able to think critically beyond a 9th grade level. Clearly, you don't realize that math makes you use a different part of your brain than language arts.

But, I agree, chess is a great thing to learn and should be taught. We've taught our DCs.

[Anonymous]

Personal finance is good, but so would be a math for citizenry course. People should understand that student loans carry higher interest rates than mortgages because they are unsecured. They should understand probabilities. As government gets more and more into health care they need to understand why not paying for a pap smear every years may be the rational choice when health care dollars are limited. And there are many, many more examples where citizens literate in the math of everyday political choices would be better informed when they go to vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personal finance is good, but so would be a math for citizenry course. People should understand that student loans carry higher interest rates than mortgages because they are unsecured. They should understand probabilities. As government gets more and more into health care they need to understand why not paying for a pap smear every years may be the rational choice when health care dollars are limited. And there are many, many more examples where citizens literate in the math of everyday political choices would be better informed when they go to vote.

Those aren't examples of understanding math so much as it is understanding how the system works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personal finance is good, but so would be a math for citizenry course. People should understand that student loans carry higher interest rates than mortgages because they are unsecured. They should understand probabilities. As government gets more and more into health care they need to understand why not paying for a pap smear every years may be the rational choice when health care dollars are limited. And there are many, many more examples where citizens literate in the math of everyday political choices would be better informed when they go to vote.

Those aren't examples of understanding math so much as it is understanding how the system works.

They both involve probabilities/statistics and an understanding of expected payoffs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personal finance is good, but so would be a math for citizenry course. People should understand that student loans carry higher interest rates than mortgages because they are unsecured. They should understand probabilities. As government gets more and more into health care they need to understand why not paying for a pap smear every years may be the rational choice when health care dollars are limited. And there are many, many more examples where citizens literate in the math of everyday political choices would be better informed when they go to vote.

Those aren't examples of understanding math so much as it is understanding how the system works.

They both involve probabilities/statistics and an understanding of expected payoffs.

And what do we teach instead? finding areas of circles and volumes of hypothetical objects

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have to read Shakespeare and books written by dead authors in school, much of which I found depressing, boring, and hated the characters. It's useless to me in everyday life.

Literature increases vocabulary, provides exposure to other cultures, introduces ideas and concepts that can further one's understanding of society and human nature. Higher level math does none of this. For most people, it is simply pointless number puzzles.

See, you missed the point entirely. High level math teaches you to think critically, logically, which is also important in life. I am a math person, but actually understand literature and can appreciate it. My DH, also a math person, doesn't get most of the literature he had to read. He doesn't feel it's helped him at all. It was the bane of his existence in school.

But how often do you sit around thinking or having conversations about mathmatical concepts?

I don't sit around thinking or having conversations about Shakespeare, either. Like I stated up thread, higher level math is not about math, per se, but about solving more complex problems, developing higher level critical thinking skills. The current and future job market for highly paid jobs require complex critical thinking skills, not just rote memorization of math. I read an article about how CEOs are looking for problem solvers for complex issues. I'm not saying only higher level math can teach this, but it certainly helps use a certain part of your brain to develop these skills.

Oh come on. So that's the reason to make kids suffer through years of math courses most will never use? Using that logic you might as well just teach them chess. At least they would be learning something that they might actually do in their real lives.

LOl... so because we don't want kids to "suffer" we shouldn't make them take hard classes that will teach them to think critically beyond a 9th grade level? Like I stated, I don't find Shakespeare useful, but the reason schools make students read literature is to broaden their horizons and make them use a different part of their brain. Maybe we should just make school optional after 9th grade like they used to way back when most people had no use for higher level education? Now, there's a great solution.. let's make America great again by making people uneducated and not able to think critically beyond a 9th grade level. Clearly, you don't realize that math makes you use a different part of your brain than language arts.

But, I agree, chess is a great thing to learn and should be taught. We've taught our DCs.

I have nothing against having kids take hard classes, but why make them "suffer" for years taking classes that will be absolutely useless to them? I'm sure there are many other ways to teach kids to think critically that might actually have some pertinence to their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS & MS teachers can you please explain what is behind the general obsession with mathematics (beyond an elementary level)?

Student don't understand it or have any ability in it, most higher level math courses have no application to 99.9% of students. Why not make math an elective in hs? It seems like an enormous misallocation of resources not to.

????

Do you want to create an unemployable generation of students?

Let me guess. You don't consider yourself a "math person."

[Anonymous]

OP, are you a homeschooling parent who isn't very good at math and resents having to teach it?

Math is incredibly important. The next time you go to a Starbucks or retail store or restaurant, hand someone $7.03 for your $6.43 check after they've already opened the drawer. You'll figure out pretty quickly who is good at math. See how long it takes some friends to figure out how to tip on a check. Do you have friends who are always short of money because they can't do a budget?

Plus in the future, science/tech jobs will be some of the best jobs. Kids need to be equipped to take those jobs.

Everyone should have a base of knowledge. Not everyone needs to take calculus, so that can probably be an elective.

[Anonymous]

Well, as an employer its got a tremendous sorting effect for me. If you took calculus, I know you can handle complex problems. If you didn't, I assume you can't or that you could but chose to avoid it. Even if I don't need you to do calculus, knowing that you could is important to me. Its much easier for me to do this using math, which is objective, as a proxy for competence, than other disciplines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you a homeschooling parent who isn't very good at math and resents having to teach it?

Math is incredibly important. The next time you go to a Starbucks or retail store or restaurant, hand someone $7.03 for your $6.43 check after they've already opened the drawer. You'll figure out pretty quickly who is good at math. See how long it takes some friends to figure out how to tip on a check. Do you have friends who are always short of money because they can't do a budget?

Plus in the future, science/tech jobs will be some of the best jobs. Kids need to be equipped to take those jobs.

Everyone should have a base of knowledge. Not everyone needs to take calculus, so that can probably be an elective.

Hey, hey, hey, where did that come from?

It sounded to me like OP's child is failing math and she's choosing to blame The Mathematics Obsession.

But I guess we all come to this with our own biases. I'm a homeschooling parent who thinks there is intrinsic value in knowing things, and also a very great value in struggling to succeed in academic subjects, and that learning shouldn't always be fun but that mastery is pleasurable in and of itself, and that the worth of one's education cannot be measured by one's household income.

[Anonymous]

13:59 - not trying to be insulting to home-schoolers, just wondering where this question is coming from. (I have friends who home-school and have to off-load certain subjects to a spouse or other adult.)

[Anonymous]

And this thread explains why the US needs to hire so many foreign educated scientists to fill our jobs. It also explains why the general public doesn't understand climate science or US economic policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personal finance is good, but so would be a math for citizenry course. People should understand that student loans carry higher interest rates than mortgages because they are unsecured. They should understand probabilities. As government gets more and more into health care they need to understand why not paying for a pap smear every years may be the rational choice when health care dollars are limited. And there are many, many more examples where citizens literate in the math of everyday political choices would be better informed when they go to vote.

Those aren't examples of understanding math so much as it is understanding how the system works.

They both involve probabilities/statistics and an understanding of expected payoffs.

And what do we teach instead? finding areas of circles and volumes of hypothetical objects

I agree an emphasis on math in everyday life is much more useful. I think calculus finding areas of objects can be a part of that just to give some exposure, however a full year or two of calculus should not be required math to get into most colleges or take as a college student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS & MS teachers can you please explain what is behind the general obsession with mathematics (beyond an elementary level)?

Student don't understand it or have any ability in it, most higher level math courses have no application to 99.9% of students. Why not make math an elective in hs? It seems like an enormous misallocation of resources not to.

Not their fault, and addressed to the wrong group.
Doesn't nearly every 4 year college require 3 or 4 years of high school math?
Why do they do it. To separate the wheat from the chaff. The smartest kids excel in math and they can probably handle the college's math curriculum.
Those that "struggle" will need remedial math, or probably won't be admitted.